Another mastitis question

[Hunny Do Ranch]

I have a call into the vet because I have never had a cow with mastitis this bad, but he is away until next Friday so I am SOL.

I started to dry her off Jan 18, 2008 because she wasn't holding her weight very well and is quite skinny. She calved Aug 24, 2007 and she did have a bad case of milk fever which we got her treated and up, but after that she lost a lot of weight and isn't putting it back on. It took her a long time to get back on feed. She is 7 years old and is a very high producer. I think the dairy life was hard on her. So... we decided to dry her off and give her a break until spring 2009 and see if we could get her bred. I have been checking her bag for signs of mastitis and she didn't show any until 2 days ago. As soon as I noticed I did milk out the infected quarter and treated it with a IMM. I milked her out again today (just the infected quarter) and there was a bit of stringy blood and really bad milk that came out. It was a as thick as pudding. I also treated it again today. The quarter is hard and hot. She is eating and drinking well and doesn't have a fever. What I am debating is should I start milking her again to get this cleared up ( we can put the calf back on for a while if we had to I guess) or should I keep milking her out and treating her? Would it be better if the quarter was drained constantly by the calf and still be treated at night when he can't suck? Is there a way to tell what type of mastitis it is? Any help would be appreciated.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[bigbull338]

hard hot quarter means treat her now.dont wait on your vet to get home .she has a bad case of mastitis in that teat.strpp that teat out some an shoot a tube of mastitis treatment in the teat.id do that 3 or 4 times.

 

[Hunny Do Ranch]

hard hot quarter means treat her now.dont wait on your vet to get home .she has a bad case of mastitis in that teat.strpp that teat out some an shoot a tube of mastitis treatment in the teat.id do that 3 or 4 times.

I have stripped out the quarter twice and treated her twice. But I haven't really seen any improvement. I am going to call the clinic again tomorrow and see what the techs say. But I still am not sure if I should start milking her again.

 

[dun]

Your vet clinic should be able to culture the milk to see if what you are using is the correct antibiotic for the type of infection she has

 

[milkmaid]

I agree, dun... but she'd need to come off antibiotics for at least 48 hours, probably more like 72 hours, before anything would show up on culture. Otherwise any growth on culture would be inhibited by the antibiotics (note it would be inhibited regardless of whether you're using an antibiotic the bacteria are very sensitive to).

An low grade infection can linger for quite awhile in a dry cow before it becomes noticable... for all anyone knows it may have been there for a month or more. Chances are high she'll lose the quarter, so consider what it will cost to treat her and what that quarter is worth before dumping a lot of cash into her.

If you let it run its course and/or attempt to kill the quarter, she may become a total 3 quarter cow with no milk production from the fourth quarter, and you wouldn't have to worry about calves transferring the pathogens from one quarter to another as they drink. Along the same lines, I would not put a calf on her now for that reason. Not a good idea.

 

[TexasBred]

One cases like this after 3-4 treatments with mastitis tubes with no real results I'd get desperate and infuse the quarte with 5 cc's of gentamycin. I know that is extralable use of the drug but it works. If that wouldn't cure it we'd hold her til the was medicine free and send her to the sale barn.

 

[milkmaid]

And gent has a 18-24 MONTH slaughter withdrawal when given IM or SC.......

If you're going to go off label, at least use something with a reasonable withdrawal time. Baytril IMM is off label too, but it will be cleared from the system in about 7 days.

 

[rockridgecattle]

When we treat for mastitis in beef cows we use the teat antibiotic 2x a day 12 hours apart after a complete milk out of the infected quarter. We also give LA200 or pen or a sulfa injectable like trimadox or borgal as directed (what ever we have on hand and continue that drug for the course of treatment). We also use and anti inflamatory to help reduce the pain and swelling.

 

[TexasBred]

And gent has a 18-24 MONTH slaughter withdrawal when given IM or SC.......

If you're going to go off label, at least use something with a reasonable withdrawal time. Baytril IMM is off label too, but it will be cleared from the system in about 7 days.

This was given in the teat, not IM or SC. We held them until the milk tested negative using the Charm Test.

 

[milkmaid]

And gent has a 18-24 MONTH slaughter withdrawal when given IM or SC.......

If you're going to go off label, at least use something with a reasonable withdrawal time. Baytril IMM is off label too, but it will be cleared from the system in about 7 days.

This was given in the teat, not IM or SC. We held them until the milk tested negative using the Charm Test.

It shouldn't have tested positive in the first place... those tests aren't designed to pick up on off label drugs. Technically you could load a cow full of Pirsue, Banamine, gentamycin, Baytril, Predef, Salix, and some others... and the creamery would never detect it. For the most part, they only test for the penicillins and some tetracyclines.

 

[TexasBred]

MIlkmaid in theory you are right because pennicillin, ctc and such are the drugs most often used by dairies, but the Charm test will find many others and in miniscule amounts. Heck Gentamycin will even show up on the "on farm" Delvo Test.

But when you're trying to get rid of something you don't want something with a short withdrawal time whether its beef or dairy cattle. (my opinion only). That's why I like Quartermaster dry cow treatment. Use to have a 96 hour milk withholding time. Haven't had to use it in years. There was a good reason for it. IT WAS STRONG and it worked. Naxcel is approved for lactating cattle and no milk withdrawal but use too much or put it into too many cows at one time and it will show up on the milk test too.

Just a comment and certainly not intended to offend but sure hope you and others don't use those other drugs assuming the creamey will not check for them.

 

[milkmaid]

Just a comment and certainly not intended to offend but sure hope you and others don't use those other drugs assuming the creamey will not check for them.

Absolutely not.

I'm not afraid to use drugs off-label, but I'm extremely careful about withdrawal times... shucks, I drink the milk too.

I was simply making an observation that you can't rely on those tests. FYI, you'd have to load a cow up with a lot of Naxcel for that one to show up on a tank sample. Excede is approved for lactating cows with no withhold, and it's the same drug at 3 or 4 times the strength of Naxcel. And more food for thought -- Quartermaster has a long labeled withdrawal, but it's penicillin mixed with a short acting carrier so in reality probably has a 12 hour (or less) withdrawal for 95% of cows.

 

[TexasBred]

Just a comment and certainly not intended to offend but sure hope you and others don't use those other drugs assuming the creamey will not check for them.

Absolutely not.

I'm not afraid to use drugs off-label, but I'm extremely careful about withdrawal times... shucks, I drink the milk too.

I was simply making an observation that you can't rely on those tests. FYI, you'd have to load a cow up with a lot of Naxcel for that one to show up on a tank sample. Excede is approved for lactating cows with no withhold, and it's the same drug at 3 or 4 times the strength of Naxcel. And more food for thought -- Quartermaster has a long labeled withdrawal, but it's penicillin mixed with a short acting carrier so in reality probably has a 12 hour (or less) withdrawal for 95% of cows.

Well actually the manufacturer describes it as penicillin-dihydrostreptomycin in oil and there is a large amount of each active ingredient. And I'm also glad you are "extremely careful about withdrawal times", but hope you test the milk rather than assuming it will be clear in 12 hours as you state that it "probably would". A tanke of milk is expensive. Personally I've had fresh cows test hot for antibiotice well past the 96 hour withdrawal time when using Quartermaster. Heck I know dairies that have it figured out just how many cows they can treat for mastitis and still put them in the tank without the milk testing positive for antibiotics. Never did it myself as we always had zero tolerance for antibiotics and never put a cow into the milk line until she had a negative test. Ever cow purchased was always tested as well so although my use of gentacin was extra lable it was never used carelessly. Great for calf scours as well. :lol:

 

[milkmaid]

The fact that there's a large amount of the active ingredient isn't near as important as what carrier the drug is mixed with... you can load two cows with equal amounts of regular penicillin G and Twin Penn, and the cow on Twin Penn is going to be positive for antibiotics a lot longer than the cow on penn G.

One makes no assumptions when you're dealing with a potential hot load. Anything questionable is tested or just given more time. Also, fresh cows don't go in the tank at 12 hours post partum; most are 24 hours even if they were not dry treated.

 

[TexasBred]

The fact that there's a large amount of the active ingredient isn't near as important as what carrier the drug is mixed with... you can load two cows with equal amounts of regular penicillin G and Twin Penn, and the cow on Twin Penn is going to be positive for antibiotics a lot longer than the cow on penn G.

One makes no assumptions when you're dealing with a potential hot load. Anything questionable is tested or just given more time. Also, fresh cows don't go in the tank at 12 hours post partum; most are 24 hours even if they were not dry treated.

She will usually need a follow up dose as well. I'll stick with Quartermaster if I need it. ;-) And do make it a habit to test EVERY cow rather than those questionable.

Good Milking. :lol:

 

[GMN]

And gent has a 18-24 MONTH slaughter withdrawal when given IM or SC.......

If you're going to go off label, at least use something with a reasonable withdrawal time. Baytril IMM is off label too, but it will be cleared from the system in about 7 days.

This was given in the teat, not IM or SC. We held them until the milk tested negative using the Charm Test.

It shouldn't have tested positive in the first place... those tests aren't designed to pick up on off label drugs. Technically you could load a cow full of Pirsue, Banamine, gentamycin, Baytril, Predef, Salix, and some others... and the creamery would never detect it. For the most part, they only test for the penicillins and some tetracyclines.

The delvo P test does pick up Pirsue and any other drug except the Cloxacillens, and you can bet the Plant has even better tests than the home tests. No way would you ever put a cow in the tank treated with Pirsue, gentamycin or any other drug, unless you want to buy the whole tanker $$$

Gail

 

[TexasBred]

Gail...absolutely. Most of the plants in Texas use the Charm test unless they've changed. That rascal will detect a bottle of antibiotics in the other room.

 

[Hunny Do Ranch]

Well the heat is gone and she seems much more comfortable. The only thing is that when I milk her out it looks like water. Does that mean that the quarter is gone?

 

[milkmaid]

Well the heat is gone and she seems much more comfortable. The only thing is that when I milk her out it looks like water. Does that mean that the quarter is gone?

99% probability it is.

 

[milkmaid]

She will usually need a follow up dose as well. I'll stick with Quartermaster if I need it. ;-) And do make it a habit to test EVERY cow rather than those questionable.

I brought up Twin Penn and Penn G to use as examples of withdrawal times, not because I recommend them for treatment. In fact, I very rarely use them for mastitis, and never without an IMM drug in combo.

Do you make a habit of testing fresh heifers?