Genetic color question

[vclavin]

What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie

 

[dun]

2 red factor Holsteins if they're red. A Jersey Holsten cross has a wild pinto looking paint job except for the lack of a line they look like longhorns

 

[vclavin]

2 red factor Holsteins if they're red. A Jersey Holsten cross has a wild pinto looking paint job except for the lack of a line they look like longhorns

That does kinda sound like it, I'll get a pic when we get her or if I happen to stop by on way to town.
Thanks Dun
Valerie

 

[cow pollinater]

I think??? some Ayrshires carry a roan gene that shows up on black(the dominant color in holstiens) cattle. Some people confuse them with holstiens so that may be it. I've never dealt with them and I can't remember why I think that so I may very well be wrong but that's what popped into my head.

 

[VanC]

What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie

If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.

 

[TexasBred]

What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie

If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.

Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.

 

[vclavin]

Momma is black Holstein and heifer calf looks like a shorthorn.
Valerie

 

[hillsdown]

What cross on a Holstein would give you a calf that look like a milking shorthorn? The dairy guy bought this Holstein heifer already bred and was supposed to be bred Holstein - oopss.
Any ideas, could it be Jersey?
Valerie

If the calf is red and white and the heifer was bred Holstein then I'd say dun is probably right and you have a Red Holstein. If the calf has roan in it then there's something else in there, probably Shorthorn.

Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.

Those were Mr HD's favorite too TB.
I agree with the others that the Holstein carries the red factor. Had a set of red and white twin heifers out of a blk/wht cow that was AI'd Boy George, a red carrier bull.

 

[VanC]

Momma is black Holstein and heifer calf looks like a shorthorn.
Valerie

Could you be more specific? Shorthorns can be solid white, solid red, red and white, or roan. All we can tell you right now is that the mother carries the red gene and passed it on to her calf.

 

[VanC]

Nothing prettier than a herd of red and white holstein cattle in deep green grass. We had a small group of them when we dairied.

I agree. Back when I was a teen and working on my aunt and uncle's farm we had a red bull calf born to a black Holstein. That's when I first learned of red factor cattle in Holsteins and Angus. I used to grill the AI tech about color genetics whenever he came out to the farm and we happened to be around. My uncle was going to breed that cow to a red bull to try and get a heifer but she was killed by lightning shortly after that.

 

[regolith]

Show us a photo if you can. Red and White isn't necessarily the same as 'looks like a Shorthorn'.

CP is right about Ayrshire. Unless there's an awful lot of red factor hiding among NZ cows... the cross over b + w often comes out red. I've been told Ayrshire over Jersey is sometimes straight black (but I've got some small solid red cows bred that way)
HFxJ can be red and white or red, but usually isn't a first cross in those colours.

Any opinions from you overseas dairy cows on whether the red and white gene in Holsteins is linked to increased hardiness? I've seen that claim made in support of the red breeds including red holstein.

 

[hillsdown]

Show us a photo if you can. Red and White isn't necessarily the same as 'looks like a Shorthorn'.

CP is right about Ayrshire. Unless there's an awful lot of red factor hiding among NZ cows... the cross over b + w often comes out red. I've been told Ayrshire over Jersey is sometimes straight black (but I've got some small solid red cows bred that way)
HFxJ can be red and white or red, but usually isn't a first cross in those colours.

Any opinions from you overseas dairy cows on whether the red and white gene in Holsteins is linked to increased hardiness? I've seen that claim made in support of the red breeds including red holstein.

Nope ,found them a little more fragile especially the calves. Some dairy guys cull just because they are red .. Sound familiar . :roll:

 

[TexasBred]

True HD....and as far as milking it seems they either milk extremely well or very poorly...no in between.

 

[regolith]

Now that's interesting. I was suspecting that the notion that a colour gene was linked to other traits might be imaginative. They're pretty enough, if nothing else.

*sorry I can't edit my last post. I prefer to conceal the fact that i can't tell the difference between cattle and people. You won't tell??

 

[vclavin]

Sorry about the description, lack of that is. She is red and white and has the pattern of the milking shorthorn but I guess I thought that as she is red/white and not black/white. I guess that makes it a little harder to tell ancestry. Next time I go to that dairy, I'll get a pic if she's where there's good light. They keep them locked up in sheds with no pasture to roam, probably why they are not keeping any as I remember he told me they had no extra pasture.
Valerie

 

[dun]

2 red factor Holsteins if they're red. A Jersey Holsten cross has a wild pinto looking paint job except for the lack of a line they look like longhorns

Rahter then use the generic "pinto" I should have used the term "overo", different looking paint job and the lower legs particularly have strange markings. The diary got rid of their last crossbred so I can;t get any pictures to show you what I mean. But the legs markings are pretty much the giveaway

 

[regolith]

Well, crikey.
I know the markings you mean, just opened the first page of my bull catologue and - there's a crossbred cow... Well, I went to see if her picture's on the LIC website and didn't see the bull among hte HF daughter-proven list, glanced back down and a) she's not a daughter, she's the *dam* of a genomically 'proven' young holstein bull. She's a crossbred cow!
http://www.lic.co.nz/lic_Sire_Lineup.cf ... info_id=18
that bull has typical crossbred markings
http://www.lic.co.nz/lic_Sire_Lineup.cf ... info_id=18
the bull is marked like a Holstein, daughter like a crossbred
http://www.lic.co.nz/lic_Sire_Lineup.cf ... info_id=18
two daughters with cross-type markings under this bull
Any black/colour above the foot disqualifies the animal from being a convincing Holstein.

 

[hillsdown]

Do they look like these ? Twin Holstein heifers that I posted about. Lulu and Tululu aka Sanne and Bart. Their dam was a blk and white heifer and their AI sire was a red carrier. Brand spanking new, Mr HD had just assisted the dam and was carrying them to put in my calf building. They are in the calving area of our freestall barn where we bring heifers/cows in so they can be watched more closelywhen they come close to their due dates.

 

[vclavin]

Your heifers have way more white on them than the one I saw, guess I'll just have to swing by the dairy soon to get a pic. thanks
Valerie

 

[hillsdown]

They can have more red than white too just as blk and whites very in color patterns so do red and whites. I just had to share the pic of my twin heifers ,I have spoken about them quite a bit throughout my years here on CT. Bart died at 3 months of age from a birth defect, her liver was not attached to the main artery . After many health problems she died on my lap as we rushed her to the vet, we had her posted and that is when we found out that she had been lucky to have lived at all. Her and her sister had to be with each other always ,if I separated them they would not drink or eat. That says something about twins, they were also almost symmetrical in color patterns.

Here is another pic of a R&W Holstein , she has more red.