Another Hereford Question

[mtnman]

What are the minuses of 517? I see his REA is below average, but do they look thick when alive?

How are udders, teats, and feet on the 517's?

mtnman

 

[1848]

I would not hesitate to purchase the 517 semen, although I would probably not put him in heifers. I would take and use the semen in a flush and increase my chances of conceptions to him, or place him in good milking cows that I know will produce a good bull. That way, you can continue to inject the 517 bull and his high accuracies, into one of your better cow lines on the maternal side.

How does flushing work? I've heard it's expensive.

Choose the cow you are going to flush (should be one of your best and should also be 60 days past calving) Then choose, and make an appointment with the veteranarian who will be doing the flush, then get your cow on a schedule to coincide with the flush date. Give the cow the recommended injections to cause her to superovulate, then AI her to the bull of choice. Once so many days have passed (for fetilization of the eggs in the cow) she will be flushed. Some breeders will use Cidr's so they will know when the heat cycle will occur, and know the optimum time to AI her. It is a "min" of $200+ depending on how the flush goes. Always try to take an open cow who has just finished her heat with you so you can have the vet make use of any #2 grade eggs while you are there. The only thing left is pick recipient cows (cross or registered, but most will not waste their purbreds for recipts). They should be at least 60 days past calving. Set them up to come into heat and have the egg implanted...simple...

 

[1848]

One more note. Remember Frank Felton basically had a closed herd with the exception of his bulls which he marketed very well. The Feltons line is sometimes best used like an outcross due to this fact, and is much of the reason his bulls did so well. None of his females were being released and this prevented the simular matings that Frank was capable of producing, but it did make his stacked genetics excell when placed in other programs with different genetic bases. So do you want to flood you bloodlines with 517 on both sides (ie World Class x 517) for the sake of high accuracy, or do you want excellerated growth through the heterosis of using 517 as an outcross.

To answer those last two questions..... yes and yes.

I think I would like to "flood the bloodlines" with Feltons to get some great maternal brood stock then when I get my herd built up, cross them up with lines like Victor and Remitall to get that extra poundage. I think the Feltons style bulls that come along here first should make just as good of bulls as when I finally get to cross with the other bloodlines.

I wasn't sure if that would be wise to breed my heifers to World Class and then put the offspring back on 517. Would that be too close to in-breeding? I have heard it's ok as long as you don't cross dad to daughter or mom to son, or brother to sister. As long as you keep one generation of separation it shouldn't hurt, is this right?

I think your plan is a good one. Remember some on the best cattle lines were developed with line breeding. It is called "prepotency" and it is how you keep desired traits within the line to reappear in later generations. How do you think we got the "Polled" Hereford? Sounds like you know where you are going with your program, and where you plan to be. I would put that plan to work and evaluate the outcome! There are articles on linebreeding, and I believe, a couple of web pages dedicated to it.

 

[1848]

What are the minuses of 517? I see his REA is below average, but do they look thick when alive?

How are udders, teats, and feet on the 517's?

mtnman

I think the fact that there are "probably" more 517 sons and grandson's out there making great sires, than from any other proven bull in the "Polled Hereford" breed, would speak for itself. I have a 517 daughter, and I have 517 bloodlines. The cow raises great calves, travels well, and has a very functional udder. I would think the calves are average thickness, and average to above average growth.

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks guys for all the opinions. I think I will go with my gut (and against my wife's better judgement) and purchase the 517 semen to use later.

That being said, now I have to finalize which bull to use this time. I have it down to 3. Feltons Ozzie 492, DR World Class 517, and Huth Stacked Deck. I believe World class is a 517 son and the other two are 517 grandsons.

I have only been looking closely at the Hereford breed for about a year now, but it seems as though 517 has quite a legacy in the polled herefords. If you look back through the family trees of a lot of the AI bulls out there, you will find 517 in there somewhere. Anybody know a way to look into the future 4 years so I can see what my 517 calves will look like as yearlings???

 

[certherfbeef]

Anybody know a way to look into the future 4 years so I can see what my 517 calves will look like as yearlings???

This might give you an idea of a 517 yearling:

[/img]

And how bout a 5yr old 242 daughter:

[/img]

 

[certherfbeef]

James,

It appears to me that you have gotten some good advice here. The only thing I will say is that if you ever decide to flush...check around and talk to an embroyologist. In my experience, most vets cannot get it done.
If I'm going to sink that much money into something, I want it done correctly. Now, 1848 probably has an excellent and qualified vet that does his flushing. That is great! But around here, we go to an embroylogist. Just my opinion though. Have fun, enjoy your cattle!!!!

 

[Campground Cattle]

Anybody know a way to look into the future 4 years so I can see what my 517 calves will look like as yearlings???

This might give you an idea of a 517 yearling:

[/img]

And how bout a 5yr old 242 daughter:

[/img]

Almost look like some Jimmy Farrington lines with those speckled faces.

 

[El_Putzo]

Thanks for the pics Certherf. I like the looks of both, but especially the pigment around the second ones eyes, as we have been known to have bouts with pink eye in this neck of the woods.

 

[1848]

James,

It appears to me that you have gotten some good advice here. The only thing I will say is that if you ever decide to flush...check around and talk to an embroyologist. In my experience, most vets cannot get it done.
If I'm going to sink that much money into something, I want it done correctly. Now, 1848 probably has an excellent and qualified vet that does his flushing. That is great! But around here, we go to an embroylogist. Just my opinion though. Have fun, enjoy your cattle!!!!

Use the Dairy Vets. Many of them have embryologist. It is how alot of Dairy's get there desired stock, other than AI...and a few natural...