A-I vs. Bull

[shadyhollownj]

Ok I went to an ai school two years ago from select sires. We are going to go 100% ai next year and get rid of our bull. We have had a few calves out of ai bulls and are very impressed. The best conception rate I was told by abs or select was around 60%. 75% seems to be very high. I figure on a straw and a half per cow when I order my straws. I either get them on the first or second or the sale barn gets them on the third.

 

[dun]

Ok I went to an ai school two years ago from select sires. We are going to go 100% ai next year and get rid of our bull. We have had a few calves out of ai bulls and are very impressed. The best conception rate I was told by abs or select was around 60%. 75% seems to be very high. I figure on a straw and a half per cow when I order my straws. I either get them on the first or second or the sale barn gets them on the third.

The one year we dropped to 76% I was ready to shoot myself for being so poor. Anything below 85% is unacceptable to me personally.
It could be from selecting for fertility and cows that settle to AI in our herd but when I was custom AIing we still ran better then 85% on customer cows. Some of those were one cow family milkers and others multiple hundred head herds. Maybe the 60% is stated to keep people from getting discouraged so they'll keep at it and get better.

 

[angus9259]

Very interesting discussion. I'm starting with four registered Galloways. I expect the number of cows / bred heifers I have to be no more than 6 at any time + calves/yearlings - so we are talking small scale here.

I'm interested in genetics and enjoy the aspect of trying to breed better than the previous generation. AI has a huge advantage here. Being new to cattle, I think it will take a while for me to be succeeding at AIing on my own.

PROBABLY TRUE

I imagine it will be worth paying a technician for his services and to store the semen - and I have no idea what it will cost.

YOU'D BE BETTER OFF TAKING A CLASS. STORAGE MAY BE A DIFFERENT ISSUE

In principle, trying to match up each cow/heifer to a bull is great, but, on average I need to pay for 10 straws of semen for the same bull - so realistically I am going to be breeding them all to the same bull every season.

I CAN BUY 5 STRAWS AT A CRACK. THAT CAN GIVE YOU 15 STRAWS OF 3 DIFFERENT BULLS TO COVER 2 YEARS

I don't like the idea of giving my cows the hormone injections to be able to breed them. What are the chances that someone new like me will be able to tell heat if they are checked regularly?

IF THEY ARE CHECKED REGULARLY, THAT'S OFTEN THE EASIEST PART

The other options open to me are:
- Purchase a yearling bull from good bloodlines and replace him every two or so years if I have heifers from him I am keeping.

WHAT I TELL A LOT OF MY BULL CUSTOMERS YOUR SIZE IS TO BUY A YEARLING BULL AND SELL HIM THE FOLLOWING YEAR AS A TWO YEAR OLD WHEN HE'LL HAVE THE MOST VALUE TO SOMEONE ELSE. SOME OF MY CUSTOMERS ACTUALLY GET ENOUGH MORE MONEY FOR A TWO YEAR OLD TO PAY FOR THE FEED OF KEEPING THE YEARLING - ESSENTIALLY RUNNING A BULL FOR FREE

- Lease / borrow a bull - not as convenient as the cows get bred when he is available (typically over the winter) rather than when I would want them to get bred (summer for spring calving). Also, it limits me to what might be available and I don't like the concept of bringing in a strange animal into my herd every winter.

I'M NOT A FAN OF LEASING OR BORROWING. "SHARING" IS A DIFFERENT MATTER IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE (AND THEIR HERD) YOU TRUST

 

[angus9259]

Ok I went to an ai school two years ago from select sires. We are going to go 100% ai next year and get rid of our bull. We have had a few calves out of ai bulls and are very impressed. The best conception rate I was told by abs or select was around 60%. 75% seems to be very high. I figure on a straw and a half per cow when I order my straws. I either get them on the first or second or the sale barn gets them on the third.

The one year we dropped to 76% I was ready to shoot myself for being so poor. Anything below 85% is unacceptable to me personally.
It could be from selecting for fertility and cows that settle to AI in our herd but when I was custom AIing we still ran better then 85% on customer cows. Some of those were one cow family milkers and others multiple hundred head herds. Maybe the 60% is stated to keep people from getting discouraged so they'll keep at it and get better.

Dun, I think you may be a better/more experienced inseminator than the average bear and do a lot better culling than the average bear. That said, for us average bears, 60% might be good and 75% might be great. If we all shot ourselves when we only got 75% there'd probably be a lot of dead inseminators out there :lol: .

 

[dun]

Ok I went to an ai school two years ago from select sires. We are going to go 100% ai next year and get rid of our bull. We have had a few calves out of ai bulls and are very impressed. The best conception rate I was told by abs or select was around 60%. 75% seems to be very high. I figure on a straw and a half per cow when I order my straws. I either get them on the first or second or the sale barn gets them on the third.

The one year we dropped to 76% I was ready to shoot myself for being so poor. Anything below 85% is unacceptable to me personally.
It could be from selecting for fertility and cows that settle to AI in our herd but when I was custom AIing we still ran better then 85% on customer cows. Some of those were one cow family milkers and others multiple hundred head herds. Maybe the 60% is stated to keep people from getting discouraged so they'll keep at it and get better.

Dun, I think you may be a better/more experienced inseminator than the average bear and do a lot better culling than the average bear. That said, for us average bears, 60% might be good and 75% might be great. If we all shot ourselves when we only got 75% there'd probably be a lot of dead inseminators out there :lol: .

Persoanlly I think it has more to do with heat detection and selection for years for fertitlity (and disposition of cows during the insemination). Some cows just get so stirred up when you stick your arm up their butts that I think it causes them to not settle. If you notice, the calm cows that basically just keep chewing their cud or stand there bored will almost always catch first service. We've alwasy used the selection criteria of 2 attempts and down the road.

 

[novatech]

Persoanlly I think it has more to do with heat detection and selection for years for fertitlity (and disposition of cows during the insemination). Some cows just get so stirred up when you stick your arm up their butts that I think it causes them to not settle. If you notice, the calm cows that basically just keep chewing their cud or stand there bored will almost always catch first service. We've alwasy used the selection criteria of 2 attempts and down the road.

I could not agree more. I have even hauled one down the road a half mile when they were in standing and not take the bull when the got there.

I was wondering if anyone uses the dark box recomended by some.

 

[dun]

I was wondering if anyone uses the dark box recomended by some.

Heard about it but never have seen it. I've used the halter and tied to a tree a few times

 

[novatech]

I was wondering if anyone uses the dark box recomended by some.

Heard about it but never have seen it. I've used the halter and tied to a tree a few times

If you will come on down and hold their tale I'll be glad to try it. For me that would work a whole lot better than a squeeze chute.

 

[dun]

I was wondering if anyone uses the dark box recomended by some.

Heard about it but never have seen it. I've used the halter and tied to a tree a few times

If you will come on down and hold their tale I'll be glad to try it. For me that would work a whole lot better than a squeeze chute.

Just throw their tail over your shoulder. If she's one of those that runs sideways with her butt I can;t do them anymore. I'm not near as nimble as I was 30 years ago
I did breed a heifer standing in the pasutre with someone holding her halter. As long as I talked to her she just stood there like statue

 

[shadyhollownj]

Well Dun after reading that percentage and dealing with this dummy calf I got I better clean the gun later. To think i thought I didnt do bad at 50% my first season. Its pouring on my parade.

 

[dun]

Well Dun after reading that percentage and dealing with this dummy calf I got I better clean the gun later. To think i thought I didnt do bad at 50% my first season. Its pouring on my parade.

First year fresh out of one of the short schools isn;t all that bad. When I went to school we had a couple of hundred cows to mess with and spent 8 hours a day for 5 days with our arms in them. Amazing what familiarity will get you in the success department

 

[shadyhollownj]

Really dun when I went to selectsires class we had about 20 cows for 15 guys. We only had 3 four hour sessions too. I am going with my wife in two weeks to abs class so she can learn so its easier if someone is working since the cows dont pay attention to my schedule. Hopefully the refresher helps a little.