alacattleman
Well-known member
that's itdun":3jtg1lqp said:
A good cross breed
- Thread starter Daniel B
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Daniel B":2xcfqc4y said:
I haven't read this entire thread, so excuse me if I'm repeating what others have said.
According to the packers, a perfect carcass weighs 750-800 lbs, Quality Grade Choice and Yield Grade 2. There used to be a lot of experts who would tell you a Continental (Simmental, Limousin, Charolais) crossed with an English breed (Angus, Hereford, Shorthorn) is more likely to give you that combination. The Continental breeds gave you more muscle and less backfat (Yield) and the English breeds gave you the marbling. If you can find those traditional Continental cattle, that still might be the way to go. But truthfully the Continentals aren't what they used to be. Neither are the English breeds.
With the tools we have to work with today( EPDs, ultrasound), you can raise quality straightbreed calves that will meet, probably exceed the packer's demands.
Daniel B":1p0p0ueu said:
For terminal - british (Red angus/hereford/shorthorn) and Gelbvieh/Simenthal. Lower yeild grade and higher quality grade. More deiserable to the packers.
Maternal - Gelbvieh Hereford or Red Angus, heterosis and additioanl calving ease more milk. angus Hereford heterosis (if selected properly) less frame
Just some frnstances
Frankie":1ta8yuk2 said:
Daniel. that's code for buy Angus they are the everyting breed; don't need no mo!
DOWN Frankie, I was just teasing. :cowboy:
Seriously Daniel one of the most complimentary crosses is Gelbvieh/Angus. So if you want to look at Red cows in the pasture buy Red Gelbvieh cows and do like Dun said breed them to BLACK angus bulls and you get the best of both worlds, cows you like to look at and calves that will bring 10cents more at the sale barn.
The other option is; if it's easier to find RA cows than Red Gelbvieh in your area buy commercial RA cows and put a Homozygous Black Gelbvieh bull on them with the same result. BTW that bull will be most likely 94% pure Gelbvieh and 6% BLK Angus, which is not enuf to screw up the heterosis of the crossbreed. Be advised tho that when that bull finishes breeding your cows he will most likely jump the fence and breed all of your neighbors cows also. We don't call them Elkvieh around here for nothing. Had a 1200lb RED gelbvieh heifer who's 8mo3wks pregnant jump a 5' fence last night cuz she didn't want to be separated from the other cows. THEY CAN JUMP
OR, breed em all RED and forget it. Either way you are right to look for hybrid vigor for marketing commercial calves.
dyates
Well-known member
Might as well put my two cents in. Angus x Charolais are excellent for the southeast as mama cows. If you prefer red, use red angus cows and a charolais bull. Be cautious about any continental bulls on heifers however. It can be done; just make sure you know what you're doin'.
3waycross":3miaabkd said:
No code. He said specifically that he didn't want black cattle, so obviously Angus wouldn't work for him. Are you suggesting that other breeds don't have the EPDs or other data to successfuly raise straightbred calves?
Daniel B":o9743huq said:
If that is your plan then I would suggest some Red British(Red Poll, Hereford, Shorthorn, Red Angus) cows and a Red Continental (Limousin) bull. That would allow you to keep back some really nice F1 heifers.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Limousin x Herford very good cross. Limousin x Angus ( Red or Black) work very well can be reg. as Limflex if sire and dam.Limousin x Red Poll would be a very good cross. Red fullblood Limi's just cross good on almost any breed. Any continental breed that is Homo Black and Homo polled is very likely under 90% pure. In the purebred Limousin homo black bull tend to be 84% to 87% pure Limi, and in my mind that is enough to effect heterosis. I send you some pictures of my Limi's soon, power outage has kinda got things messed up around here.
Daniel
not trying to staret a big poop storm here but when you consider Limo's over say a Gelbvieh ask yourself why the Limo's needed an EPD for disposition. Can't think of one other breed that does. No offense Red Bull but it needed to be said.
not trying to staret a big poop storm here but when you consider Limo's over say a Gelbvieh ask yourself why the Limo's needed an EPD for disposition. Can't think of one other breed that does. No offense Red Bull but it needed to be said.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Same reason Angus has one now they needed it. Limi people new they needed it years ago, and thats why we don't need it much any more. Now ask old 3way why he had such a hard time penning that old Gelbvieh cow a week or so ago. You don't need a doctility EPD do you 3way.
Red Bull Breeder":n6rqpkzz said:
No trouble penning her. In fact she likes for me to scratch her ears when I'm feeding. Her problem is she wants to be with the main herd instead of being in a paddock with a few heifers. She didn't try to kill me she just jumped the fence to get to the main herd.
For the record I have found Gelbvieh's to be very docile, I rank Herefords first, Shorthorns second and Gelbvieh third for disposition. They do however like to jump. Period. The last bull we had would jump the fence just to graze the lane. I beat his a$$ with a 6 foot section of one in blk plastic pipe 3 times in one week for jumping the fence. After the third time if he saw me coming he would jump the fence and go hide in the cows.
However, for the record last spring I thought we needed a second bull to give our RA a jumpstart with a little competition. So I bought a 2yr old Blk Limi bull at the sale. Couldn't get a BSE for a couple days so I had to keep him at the sale barn, Second day I went into the pen to turn on the water for him and the SOB put me over the fence. HARD. Sold him back a week later, and made sure everyone knew he was mean. I am not trying to paint with a broad brush but I'm batting 1000 with limi's for not being fun to work with.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Most will kick up a fuss about this i don't use any black Limi's because of just what you just said. The Limi was not your problem. What turned him black was caused the problem. I have tried the black ones not always trouble but more than i like. Never have any trouble with the Fullbloods, the reason is Fullblood got a bad rap years ago. Fullblood breeders had to fix the problem and did. Purebred breeders didn't think they had to and didn't. All breeds have there fools simple as that. For doctility my cows are as gentle as anybodys anywhere.
Red Bull Breeder":oph5jbf8 said:
I'm sure they are and I am not knocking them Red Bull. I applaud you for sticking to your guns on staying red. I have both Red and Black Gelbvieh's and I definately like looking at the red ones more. They seem to have a little more character if that's possible with a darned cow.
angusbreederms
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You will never go wrong with Angus x Hereford. Time tested and cattleman approved!
I'm sure they are and I am not knocking them Red Bull. I applaud you for sticking to your guns on staying red. I have both Red and Black Gelbvieh's and I definately like looking at the red ones more. They seem to have a little more character if that's possible with a darned cow.[/quote]
Character/attitude can be developed... one way or another.. :nod:
Character/attitude can be developed... one way or another.. :nod:
Daniel B":p6srzw7f said:
I think you can find animals that marble (or not) in both breeds. Pay attention to EPDs. We had an ultrasound tech here one time to scan some heifers. A friend brought over his older Hereford bull. The difference in the pictures was remarkable. When he saw the bull, the technician remarked that Hereford scans were harder to read than Angus. The bull was really too old for the data to be useful, but the owner just wanted it for his own information. I never did hear anything about the results.
