Why Angus?
- Thread starter S.R.R.
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MikeC":xwktjwoo said:
I agree. The one thing people say when they see my heard of reg. cows is first they can't be Angus caue they are too big. Too heavy muscled. This is were balance and all around GREAT bulls are needed.
Scotty
About 15 years ago, when we sold our first Angus bulls at our test station the only EPD anyone seemed interested in was the BW EPD. (Back then Angus was about the only breed with EPDs.) But about three years ago, I noticed people were also carrying around the ultrasound report sheets. While low BW EPD bulls are still popular, people seem to be looking at more qualities, at least at OBI. (Oh, BTW, the fall OBI sale is October 20.)
When someone calls looking for an Angus bull, we price him right up front. There have been people looking for cheap bulls to turn their calves black without regard for quality. When that happens, someone is going to produce to fill that market.
Angus bulls aren't magic. There are good ones and sorry ones, just like in any breed. Take time to learn about EPDs and you can improve your chances of getting a good one.
We lost a pasture lease spring of '04 to the grandson of the owner. He lives several hours from here, but he and a local cousin had decided to get into the cattle business. I can only guess because of the good prices. I drove by the place a week or so ago and the cattle that I saw all looked to be young LonghornXJersey cross. I didn't see a bull. I wonder how long they'll stay in the cattle business as prices are starting to tighten up.
We all know that all "black" cattle aren't Angus. Look for marketing opportunities to market your cattle sired by Angus bulls. Depending on your area, it may take more work than just carrying them to the sale barn, but it might be worth your while.
When someone calls looking for an Angus bull, we price him right up front. There have been people looking for cheap bulls to turn their calves black without regard for quality. When that happens, someone is going to produce to fill that market.
Angus bulls aren't magic. There are good ones and sorry ones, just like in any breed. Take time to learn about EPDs and you can improve your chances of getting a good one.
We lost a pasture lease spring of '04 to the grandson of the owner. He lives several hours from here, but he and a local cousin had decided to get into the cattle business. I can only guess because of the good prices. I drove by the place a week or so ago and the cattle that I saw all looked to be young LonghornXJersey cross. I didn't see a bull. I wonder how long they'll stay in the cattle business as prices are starting to tighten up.
We all know that all "black" cattle aren't Angus. Look for marketing opportunities to market your cattle sired by Angus bulls. Depending on your area, it may take more work than just carrying them to the sale barn, but it might be worth your while.
I would think that using cows from a lean breed and breeding to a high ww yw Angus bull would lower the amount of back fat but up the tenderness ect. of the meat? And would add the black, polled factor.
docgraybull":6z9z3js7 said:
It doesn't matter much about WW and YW if you have a dead calf. The ADG of a dead calf isn't very good. Personally, I'd give up some growth to get one that gets up quickly and nurses. Having said that, you don't have to give up growth by using a LBW Angus bull. We calved out some heifers this past spring. Their PFred and Dateline calves had adjusted WWs, from those calving ease bulls, better than some of the mature cow's calves.
Susie David
Well-known member
Frankie...great insight, thanks, quick question...how much stock do you put on the dam's side of the equation in selecting the proper bull for the production.
Susie David":1ixt5bd8 said:
I think the cow is as important as the bull. But I've never seen a bull that we AI with, much less his dam. We generally won't use a bull until he's well proven, so by then we've weeded out anything that we don't like because of bloodlines or poor performance.
BW has often been discussed on this site. What interests me is the CED epd that they now offer, also the CEM. It is interesting because you can stumble across a bull that is around +2 for birth, but carries a better CED and CEM than some with a lower BW. If the EPDs for those two traits are trustworthy, a fellow could be getting a Calving Ease bull without the birthweight premium usually associated with heifer bulls. (Because it seems so far the premium for the low birth weight bulls is still tied to BW EPDs) Irregardless, it also goes to show that not all +3 (or moderate) BW bulls are created equal. Some, again provided the EPD proves to be trustworthy, can have daugthers with excellent calving ease, compared to others which don't.
I agree with what Docgraybull is saying and thank him for the kind words. The emphasis for the majority of producers is on the low birth weight. And that one sole trait guides their purchasing decision. They will take less of anything and everthing to get that low birth weight bull if they have to, and often they have to to afford one. Giving up growth, carcass and confirmation. No, nobody wants a dead calf or heifer, and yes, LBW bulls play an important role on a fellows place, but they aren't, for the large part, meant to do it all, which is why everthing else suffers when the bull lot is full of them. We bought a PFred son this year, the second one we have owned, and that LBW cost us an extra $500-750 each time. Was it worth it? We think so. But we also buy bulls for cows where we can spend that extra $500-750 on something other than birth weight. And I like that a lot more. By and large those seem to be the bulls that really make the leaps in your herd.
Summitcrest, as just one example, has the Pfred bull and features a good chunk of calves out of him at their sales. But by and large I do hear grumblings from some guys our way that they don't put enough emphasis on BW, and I hear that about other ranches as well, but in my opinion I think they are doing the right thing. Other breeders have made it their sole focus to capture some of the demand for them. It maybe good for a quick buck, but time will tell how it plays out over the long haul, assuming they make it that far.
If you are sensing with your business that producers are more mindful of other traits, Frankie, then I think that is great news and bodes well for the future. Scotty, "hearing" is the key word. If the Angus breed wants to continue to thrive, all they really need to do is listen to the other breeds. I mean more than likely they will be the first to point out and capatilize on their flaws. No one, after all, has the perfect breed and you would hope the Angus breed would be ever mindful of that.
I agree with what Docgraybull is saying and thank him for the kind words. The emphasis for the majority of producers is on the low birth weight. And that one sole trait guides their purchasing decision. They will take less of anything and everthing to get that low birth weight bull if they have to, and often they have to to afford one. Giving up growth, carcass and confirmation. No, nobody wants a dead calf or heifer, and yes, LBW bulls play an important role on a fellows place, but they aren't, for the large part, meant to do it all, which is why everthing else suffers when the bull lot is full of them. We bought a PFred son this year, the second one we have owned, and that LBW cost us an extra $500-750 each time. Was it worth it? We think so. But we also buy bulls for cows where we can spend that extra $500-750 on something other than birth weight. And I like that a lot more. By and large those seem to be the bulls that really make the leaps in your herd.
Summitcrest, as just one example, has the Pfred bull and features a good chunk of calves out of him at their sales. But by and large I do hear grumblings from some guys our way that they don't put enough emphasis on BW, and I hear that about other ranches as well, but in my opinion I think they are doing the right thing. Other breeders have made it their sole focus to capture some of the demand for them. It maybe good for a quick buck, but time will tell how it plays out over the long haul, assuming they make it that far.
If you are sensing with your business that producers are more mindful of other traits, Frankie, then I think that is great news and bodes well for the future. Scotty, "hearing" is the key word. If the Angus breed wants to continue to thrive, all they really need to do is listen to the other breeds. I mean more than likely they will be the first to point out and capatilize on their flaws. No one, after all, has the perfect breed and you would hope the Angus breed would be ever mindful of that.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Throughout these posts I detect a trend of realizing, on the part of most successful breeders, that no one breed is the SOLE answer to the 'Beef Breeder's Dilema' - that being $PROFIT. To my thinking, that is a mark of true progress in the BUSINESS.
Low Birth Weight is important - as are ALL other traits - some to a greater degree than others, depending on their priorities. The key factor, in my opinion, is KNOWLEDGE and TRAIT BALANCE. If only one or two traits are consistently considered in a breeding program - other equally important traits will deteriorate and upset that genetic balance.
Scotty - you are correct in your comment regarding "balance and all around GREAT bulls are needed". There is so much excellent and factual information available almost EVERYWHERE now - on the web and right here on these posts - to help the Beef Breeder UNDERSTAND his BUSINESS, that there is no longer any excuse for being "Barn Blind" to his owning inferior breeding stock.
This is why I continue to stress understanding EPD's and Ultrasound Results! These factors are not Fads - they are proven Facts! But they must be understood and utilized effectively to be optimal.
DOC HARRIS
Low Birth Weight is important - as are ALL other traits - some to a greater degree than others, depending on their priorities. The key factor, in my opinion, is KNOWLEDGE and TRAIT BALANCE. If only one or two traits are consistently considered in a breeding program - other equally important traits will deteriorate and upset that genetic balance.
Scotty - you are correct in your comment regarding "balance and all around GREAT bulls are needed". There is so much excellent and factual information available almost EVERYWHERE now - on the web and right here on these posts - to help the Beef Breeder UNDERSTAND his BUSINESS, that there is no longer any excuse for being "Barn Blind" to his owning inferior breeding stock.
This is why I continue to stress understanding EPD's and Ultrasound Results! These factors are not Fads - they are proven Facts! But they must be understood and utilized effectively to be optimal.
DOC HARRIS
jscunn
Well-known member
I agree there is a need to have low birth weight bulls for Heifers. We usually run 2 bulls. One for the mature cows (Currently a +5.3 BW, 49 WW Angus) and our last LBW bull was (+0.8 BW 33ww Angus). We run the heifers and the 2 year olds together and they get bred to the LBW bull. The rest of the mature cows are bred to the HBW bull.
What's the saying "A big strapping calf at birth is usually a big strapping calf at weaning". Also a cow will normally produce a calf 7% her body weight (1000lb cow 70 lb calf, 1300lb cow 91lb calf), so dont just blame the bull. I think this is why the Angus Assoc came out with CED and CEM, hopefully to take in other factors than BW.
I think that some farmers/ranchers get caught up in the hype. Convience traits like easy to sell, especially when there is an EPD to go with them like BW. We have to buy another LBW bull this year and I think we will focus on CED CEM more the BW epd. I would easily breed heifers to a +3 BW bull if he had an above avg CED. As a matter of fact we bred 6 heifers of our LBW to a bull with an EPD 3.7 BW and so far (Knock on Wood) we are 2 for 2 (both bulls
) neither one of them weighed over 65#. Let you know about the other 4 heifers.
What's the saying "A big strapping calf at birth is usually a big strapping calf at weaning". Also a cow will normally produce a calf 7% her body weight (1000lb cow 70 lb calf, 1300lb cow 91lb calf), so dont just blame the bull. I think this is why the Angus Assoc came out with CED and CEM, hopefully to take in other factors than BW.
I think that some farmers/ranchers get caught up in the hype. Convience traits like easy to sell, especially when there is an EPD to go with them like BW. We have to buy another LBW bull this year and I think we will focus on CED CEM more the BW epd. I would easily breed heifers to a +3 BW bull if he had an above avg CED. As a matter of fact we bred 6 heifers of our LBW to a bull with an EPD 3.7 BW and so far (Knock on Wood) we are 2 for 2 (both bulls
) neither one of them weighed over 65#. Let you know about the other 4 heifers.
A
Anonymous
Doc I agree with you 100%.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Every beef breeder worth his salt as opinions - some are based on experience - some on education and information - some on prejudice. To whatever the discussion is pertinent, facts should be in evidence. The United States Department of
Agriculture -Marketing Service - has approved the following - effective January 1, 1997, Titled: SCHEDULE GLA - USDA SPECIFICATION FOR CHARACTERISTICS OF CATTLE ELIGIBLE FOR APPROVED BEEF PROGRAMS CLAIMING ANGUS INFLUENCE.
The site is:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm
I presume the other breeds have similar requirements for qualifications for certifications, but these are for Angus. I recommend your investigation.
DOC HARRIS
Agriculture -Marketing Service - has approved the following - effective January 1, 1997, Titled: SCHEDULE GLA - USDA SPECIFICATION FOR CHARACTERISTICS OF CATTLE ELIGIBLE FOR APPROVED BEEF PROGRAMS CLAIMING ANGUS INFLUENCE.
The site is:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/Sc ... ed-GLA.htm
I presume the other breeds have similar requirements for qualifications for certifications, but these are for Angus. I recommend your investigation.
DOC HARRIS
This is the USDA site with requirements and info on USDA approved branded beef programs:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/certprog/certbeef.htm
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Thank you, Frankie! This is a more appropriate and specific site for the Breeder's requirements.Frankie":2wh31i3x said:
DOC HARRIS
qweeve
New member
Angus beef is good for one thing, and one thing only, making money. It is substandard to most beef for flavor and texture.
It grows twice as fast on half the feed is why it is popular. Nothing at all to do with the quality of it.
It grows twice as fast on half the feed is why it is popular. Nothing at all to do with the quality of it.
farmer rich
Well-known member
qweeve":3qc70tbe said:
Is this a bad thing?
Codswallop
Poppycock
A
Anonymous
farmer rich":a0p1r3la said:
Farmer Rich
Want to thank you for giving me the laugh of the day.
Unfortunately this post from qweeve might also show his/her level of understanding of the cattle business - quite possibly a parochial local - so you might have to explain your responses!!!
:lol: :lol: 8)
Have a good one,
Bez'
farmer rich
Well-known member
Hey Bez, how about,
Balderdash
Claptrap
Bunkum
Drivel
Twaddle
Baloney
Tommyrot
Piffle
or my personal favourite, Cobblers.
Balderdash
Claptrap
Bunkum
Drivel
Twaddle
Baloney
Tommyrot
Piffle
or my personal favourite, Cobblers.
