Why Angus?

[S.R.R.]

So a person has british cross cows that he is ready to pick a terminal sire for. What are the reasons to pick a good Angus bull with high ww and yw over say a Charolais or the like? Is it meat tenderness, cutability, or somthing else?

 

[Angus Guy]

Frankie can answer this better me but here's my opinion. Useing a good terminal angus bull should net you more dollars if they qualify as CAB. Also in my area angus crosses sell higher than most others. I know I opened a can of worms, but that's what I think.

 

[Scotty]

I agree. Cattle with ear and smokies will not grade or marble as well. People will tell you and even show you data that says to the contrary. Made up crap. If you are retaining ownership to make money go with what is proven. British cattle do better. I go to the local sale every Sat. in Comanche. Look at the prices per cattle. Cosistantly angus sired calves, ones that show breed charactor, sell better. There is always going to be the ocassional stray calve that does well. But ask yourself this. If Angus was not the best why is it the breed that is consitantly growing in numbers head over tail than any other? This site has the numbers.


Scotty

 

[MikeC]

scotty wrote:

I agree. Cattle with ear and smokies will not grade or marble as well. People will tell you and even show you data that says to the contrary. Made up crap.

If you're going for marbling and grading why don't you just breed Wagyu cattle?

There have been several times when I made more money off a "Select" calf than I did off of a "Choice" calf. That ain't made up crap either.

 

[Scotty]

scotty wrote:

I agree. Cattle with ear and smokies will not grade or marble as well. People will tell you and even show you data that says to the contrary. Made up crap.

If you're going for marbling and grading why don't you just breed Wagyu cattle?

There have been several times when I made more money off a "Select" calf than I did off of a "Choice" calf. That ain't made up crap either.

Congatulations!!! Just an opinion, just like yours. My experience is Angus sired calves with X-bred cows(angus based) grew as well as the time I had Charrolais and other continental. Cost me a whole lot less to feed the brutes also. Remeber the original question was why choose Angus.


Scotty

 

[MikeC]

scotty wrote:

I agree. Cattle with ear and smokies will not grade or marble as well. People will tell you and even show you data that says to the contrary. Made up crap.

If you're going for marbling and grading why don't you just breed Wagyu cattle?

There have been several times when I made more money off a "Select" calf than I did off of a "Choice" calf. That ain't made up crap either.

Congatulations!!! Just an opinion, just like yours. My experience is Angus sired calves with X-bred cows(angus based) grew as well as the time I had Charrolais and other continental. Cost me a whole lot less to feed the brutes also. Remeber the original question was why choose Angus.
Scotty

I wasn't commenting on the original question. I was commenting on YOUR comment. And yes it was an opinion, but it WASN'T just like yours.

 

[showme]

Down here black sells high. Then F-1 are 2nd to highest. I really do like F-1's because most of them are nuts and black cow look better in the pasture.

 

[Scotty]

scotty wrote:

I agree. Cattle with ear and smokies will not grade or marble as well. People will tell you and even show you data that says to the contrary. Made up crap.

If you're going for marbling and grading why don't you just breed Wagyu cattle?

There have been several times when I made more money off a "Select" calf than I did off of a "Choice" calf. That ain't made up crap either.

Congatulations!!! Just an opinion, just like yours. My experience is Angus sired calves with X-bred cows(angus based) grew as well as the time I had Charrolais and other continental. Cost me a whole lot less to feed the brutes also. Remeber the original question was why choose Angus.
Scotty

I wasn't commenting on the original question. I was commenting on YOUR comment. And yes it was an opinion, but it WASN'T just like yours.

Fair enough. I'll agree to disagree. ;-)


Scotty

 

[Frankie]

So a person has british cross cows that he is ready to pick a terminal sire for. What are the reasons to pick a good Angus bull with high ww and yw over say a Charolais or the like? Is it meat tenderness, cutability, or somthing else?

Something else. Whether you're selling at the sale barn or the feedlot, the acceptability of Angus sired calves is unmatched by any other breed. Right or wrong, good black calves will generally outsell good other colored calves and sorry black calves will generally outsell other sorry calves. More and more buyers are looking for source identified Angus calves. The AnguSource tag is becoming widely recognized in the industry.

I would bet that more Angus bulls are performance tested every year for average daily gain than any other breed, maybe all other breeds combined. Feed efficiency is a heritable trait and using a bull that gained efficiently will help lower the cost of feeding your cattle.

CAB licensed feedlots are looking for Angus sired calves.

IMO, the American Angus Association has created the most reliable EPDs in the industry. By using those you can pick bulls that are more likely to work with your cattle to produce the kind of calves that will work for you, whether you're selling at weaning, yearling, retaining ownership, replacement heifers...whatever.

There are several branded beef programs that want Angus cattle, CAB, Premium Gold Angus, are the first two that come to mind. The packers have also created some branded programs that prefer Angus genetics.

Just a few things off the top of my head.....

 

[dun]

So a person has british cross cows that he is ready to pick a terminal sire for. What are the reasons to pick a good Angus bull with high ww and yw over say a Charolais or the like? Is it meat tenderness, cutability, or somthing else?

Depends on how you market. If all you are selling is weaning weight at the sale barn and non-black calves aren;t docked, anything that packs on pounds and muscle will work. But if you retain ownership or get premiums from the feedlot on your calves, quality grade makes a difference, generally that's where the angus comes in.

dun

 

[MikeC]

So a person has british cross cows that he is ready to pick a terminal sire for. What are the reasons to pick a good Angus bull with high ww and yw over say a Charolais or the like? Is it meat tenderness, cutability, or somthing else?

Depends on how you market. If all you are selling is weaning weight at the sale barn and non-black calves aren;t docked, anything that packs on pounds and muscle will work. But if you retain ownership or get premiums from the feedlot on your calves, quality grade makes a difference, generally that's where the angus comes in.
dun

Hey dun. If the current "Beef Quality Audit" shows that the percentage of "Choice Carcasses" in the U.S. was lowered to 52% from the previous audit of 57%, and the number of Angus sired calves were at records highs, what does that say for Angus sired cattle?

Add to the fact that the number of Yield grade 4's and 5's went through the roof and weren't even graded tells us a couple of things: #1- Angus ain't getting it done in the Quality grade categories because they have lost muscle.
#2- We have gotten our cows too small and have way too much fat.

 

[stocky]

The reasons may change depending on how long you keep your calves. If you sell them at the sale barn off the cow or as weaned calves you would do well to put a charlois bull with your red based cows and a black bull with your other colored cows. Out of the red based cows you will get a yellow, top dollar calf from the charlois bull. Out of the other colored cows, you will get a top selling black calf. If you put a charlois bull with black cows you get a smoky calf and some rat tails and they do not sell as well. If you put a black bull with the red cows you sacrifice weight gain and the black calves do not sell better than the yellow calves in alot of areas.

 

[Angus Guy]

Mike it could also mean that feeders are holding for a higher market. I know this doen't work but have seen it happen to many times over the years.

 

[dun]

So a person has british cross cows that he is ready to pick a terminal sire for. What are the reasons to pick a good Angus bull with high ww and yw over say a Charolais or the like? Is it meat tenderness, cutability, or somthing else?

Depends on how you market. If all you are selling is weaning weight at the sale barn and non-black calves aren;t docked, anything that packs on pounds and muscle will work. But if you retain ownership or get premiums from the feedlot on your calves, quality grade makes a difference, generally that's where the angus comes in.
dun

Hey dun. If the current "Beef Quality Audit" shows that the percentage of "Choice Carcasses" in the U.S. was lowered to 52% from the previous audit of 57%, and the number of Angus sired calves were at records highs, what does that say for Angus sired cattle?

Add to the fact that the number of Yield grade 4's and 5's went through the roof and weren't even graded tells us a couple of things: #1- Angus ain't getting it done in the Quality grade categories because they have lost muscle.
#2- We have gotten our cows too small and have way too much fat.

Just as in everything else, there will alwasy be extremes when people first start jumping on bandwagons. Too many bulls are being sold that should be cut and single trait selection will alwasy ultimately be a loser. We had a pen of calves last year that the feedlot told us not to worry about the YG4s, he admitted to holding them way to long.
Who knows, maybe the black deal will end up hurting the cattle industry in the long run. Extremes in marbeling seem to also generally have a negative affect on fat. Butthere are a lot of bulls available that are the outliers and provide marbeling, ribeye and low backfat.
I also wonder if more of the problem should be layed at the feet of the cow herd. A bull can;t fix everything. If you have a mixed bag of cows with widely diverse traits, no one bull is going to work on them all.
Just my persoanl thoughts on the subject

dun

 

[MikeC]

Mike it could also mean that feeders are holding for a higher market. I know this doen't work but have seen it happen to many times over the years.

I see what you're saying, but for the whole year?

 

[dph]

We raise commercial angus cattle and have for 90 some years. My father's biggest gripe about Angus today is that since the breed has become so popular, there is no shortage of Angus bulls that should be Angus steers. Everybody and their brother seems to be selling Angus bulls. Which maybe should be expected with cattle prices are this high. Additionally, because prices are high, I do think a lot of producers have gotten away from efficient cattle. People aren't culling as hard because they want to keep as many as they can because almost any of them will turn them a $. If the market begins to head back down, then I would think one would see a big change in quality at the market's bottom. You will have lost the guys in it for a quick buck, and you will have gotten rid of a lot of cattle that aren't turning a profit.

One last thing, a lot of guys buying Angus bulls today are interested in one thing only, calving ease. And, in my opinion, there are a lot of other traits suffering for it.

 

[dph]

Sorry Dun, while I was typing away you had already summed up every point I was going to make.

 

[Angus Guy]

We've all seen this happen and your right for a whole year this doesn't usually happen. But put in combination with other factors like dun metioned and it all adds up to the quality numbers you brought up.

 

[MikeC]

dun wrote:

I also wonder if more of the problem should be layed at the feet of the cow herd.

You said a mouthfull there dun. I believe that too many people are infatuated with those little "Easy Doin" cows, all the while adding backfat to the calves. It wouldn't be hard to do.

 

[docgraybull]

there is no shortage of Angus bulls that should be Angus steers.

One last thing, a lot of guys buying Angus bulls today are interested in one thing only, calving ease. And, in my opinion, there are a lot of other traits suffering for it.

dph you make several valid points, but I think that these two carry the most weight. I repeatedly see cattle listed for sale as "bred to LBW Angus bulls". I have yet to see a set of cows listed for sale as "bred to high WW/YW Angus bulls".