Who is a Hypocrite

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Ouachita

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Margonme":m8putdve said:
Nesikep":m8putdve said:
Farmerjan, In my previous post I said I don't think capital punishment should be off the table, but I do think there should be some form of trial.

Ron, I agree with you too.. the west in general has been good at meddling for the last 100 years or so.. pretty much since oil became a prize commodity. There has also been lots of economic warfare as well, deliberately indebting countries by recommending mega-projects with beautiful, rosy economic benefit projections that are a farce (10% yearly economic growth, when reality is 2% growth), but the projects are funded by the world bank, and they will collect interest on that loan oFOREVER because the country just can't pay down the principle, or will be driven to poverty in trying.
Those are things we ARE guilty of.. We're guilty of making it easy for people to hate us

Agreed. Unfortunately, these issues are too complex to fully explore on a forum.

The US has had a long standing involvement in the middle east. The Reagan administration supported Sadam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran war. Billions of dollars and other aid. Much too complex to give due credit on a forum.

These issues are complex and doubtful anyone addressing this thread can do the subject any more justice than commentary.

My point is simple. Much more goes into the issue than the notion that it is about Islam. It is about FOREIGN RELATIONS. And the US has to take responsibility. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Well, we are reaping.
This may be the most interesting topic I've read on CT. Without reading beyond this post I don't have much to add, except that we should revisit the Monroe Doctrine
 
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Margonme

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Ouachita":nxbqpysc said:
Margonme":nxbqpysc said:
Nesikep":nxbqpysc said:
Farmerjan, In my previous post I said I don't think capital punishment should be off the table, but I do think there should be some form of trial.

Ron, I agree with you too.. the west in general has been good at meddling for the last 100 years or so.. pretty much since oil became a prize commodity. There has also been lots of economic warfare as well, deliberately indebting countries by recommending mega-projects with beautiful, rosy economic benefit projections that are a farce (10% yearly economic growth, when reality is 2% growth), but the projects are funded by the world bank, and they will collect interest on that loan oFOREVER because the country just can't pay down the principle, or will be driven to poverty in trying.
Those are things we ARE guilty of.. We're guilty of making it easy for people to hate us

Agreed. Unfortunately, these issues are too complex to fully explore on a forum.

The US has had a long standing involvement in the middle east. The Reagan administration supported Sadam Hussein in the Iraq-Iran war. Billions of dollars and other aid. Much too complex to give due credit on a forum.

These issues are complex and doubtful anyone addressing this thread can do the subject any more justice than commentary.

My point is simple. Much more goes into the issue than the notion that it is about Islam. It is about FOREIGN RELATIONS. And the US has to take responsibility. As ye sow, so shall ye reap. Well, we are reaping.
This may be the most interesting topic I've read on CT. Without reading beyond this post I don't have much to add, except that we should revisit the Monroe Doctrine

If anyone got the point regarding reaping what we sow, YOU DID!! Because that Doctrine embraces the principle that the US has moved light years away from:

Monroe Doctrine:
a principle of US policy, originated by President James Monroe in 1823, that any intervention by external powers in the politics of the Americas is a potentially hostile act against the US.
 
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Margonme

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Ouachita:

IMO, which is mine and mine to express, I don't have a problem with disagreements with my opinion or anyone with opposing opinions, BUT IMO, every conflict since WW II has cost us too much in lives and money. All we reap is debt and hatred.

The Monroe Doctrine should be applied in the contrary: KEEP OUR NOSE OUT OF THE AFFAIRS OF OTHER STATES. State being used to mean any politically organized community on an international basis.
 

HDRider

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It seems our foreign policy and actions abroad are guided by something other than the best interest of the common man.
 

True Grit Farms

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I was under the impression that everything was booming after WWII. Then JFK started putting the brakes on and it's progressively gotten worse. The rest of the history lesson I'll leave to those of you that study history.
 

greybeard

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True Grit Farms":2m15jxnk said:
I was under the impression that everything was booming after WWII. Then JFK started putting the brakes on and it's progressively gotten worse. The rest of the history lesson I'll leave to those of you that study history.
ok, here it is. JFK was dead by 1964. He had little to do with it, except to order our military technology not be openly and freely exported without congressional oversight.
For North America, especially the USA, and to some extent, Australia, yes everything was booming. Pretty easy to have a great economy when all the rest of the world is in shambles and ruins, their infrastrctures and industry wrecked, bombed and burned. Across Europe, most of Asia, North Africa and the far pacific, no heavy industry left, no railways, no steel mills, no shipyards, no refineries, few seaports, no airports, no aircraft manufacturing, no automobile plants, and not many roads that could handle a passenger car anyway. The first 2 1/4 decades after ww2 were arguably the best economic times this country ever saw--we were exporting everything from plywood to steel, copper cable to concrete, to rebuild the rest of the world. North America was not the big dog on the porch--it was the ONLY dog on the whole block.

Douglas MacAuthor was a very popular leader, and had huge support in congress, and he had an undying love for the Japanese--he had spent a lot of years in Tokyo before the war. He was adamant, that Japan not be punished, and he helped mold the formula for post-war Japan, so it was a given, that we would rebuild Japan. Germany however, got no love, and it was determined by the victors, that they would suffer greatly for both their atrocities and being the primary belligerent of that war. Not only would we not rebuild them, the little industry they had left was to be disassembled by the Germans themselves and transported to other countries, never to be rebuilt to any thing close to prewar conditions. As one US Senator put it--"Till Christ himself returns". Tens of thousands of German citizens were corralled and transported to the Eastern bloc to reassemble and work in those relocated plants--pretty much slave labor.
US policy in post-war Germany from April 1945 until July 1947 had been that no help should be given to the Germans in rebuilding their nation, outside preventing mass starvation. That meant, we had to support the German populace as they slowly rebuilt their basic infrastructure, providing only the bare necessities. But for the rest of the world, our wartime manufacturing capacity was turned into one huge export plant. We had the skilled manpower, the plants, the roads, the railroads, and the shipping capacity, and jobs were plentiful all thru the 50s and the 60s.
Within a few years tho, it became apparent that it would be impossible for the rest of Europe to quickly rebuild without Germany being rebuilt too--not without the surviving countries spending huge amounts of $$ anyway, so in the late 40s, Germany began getting help to rebuild as well. Mostly the US was the economic beneficiary of rebuilding the East and the West. (I personally have always thought the whole of Germany should have been handed over to Joseph Stalin--he would have known what to do with them)
Fast forward to the early 70s, Japan had stopped making trinkets and cheap radios and had begun building and exporting real products, Germany and Europe right behind them, as the rest of the world caught up with US capacity. Gone, was the huge global market for all our goods, and our economy shrunk back closer to pre-war levels.
 

D2Cat

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Greybeard, you are so right. I remember in the 1964 Olympics, Seiko was the provider of the time clocks and advertised their products heavily. Soon after that they had the first quartz watch. Their reputation flourished.

Products from Japan became competitive in the world marketplace. The negative connotation of "Made in Japan" was soon gone.

And soon Germany became know for their quality optics.
 

backhoeboogie

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TexasBred":w8uacqt2 said:
the United States of America has not officially declared war on any country on this earth .

Anything you type can and will be used against you in this forum. We cut and paste. Take sentences out of text. Snip and snipe words out of sentences. Just like CNN, ABC, FOX, and CBS. (FOX is not as liberal as the others)

Some of us may even do everything we can to discredit and belittle you.

Kind of amazing how this BS works TB. I pulled one of your sentences and cut a couple of words. It now says something different. No offense to you in anyway. I actually agreed.
 

Commercialfarmer

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WW2 was within the past 100 years, and we were attacked and it wasn't about oil. So the 100 year statement is obviously false, and Monroe doctrine would not have kept us out of it.

Because of WW2, we had interest in preserving the stability of the world.

GB I believe is correct, in that we had infrastructure, but only half correct. You can't build wealth trading with the someone that has nothing to trade back. The exchange is very limited. Our geatest years of economic growth weren't because we had capability and no one esle did. Trade is and always has been a two way street.

And most importantly, the growth we experienced was because the world was at peace. You can have all the capability in the world, but like the dark ages, if the world is in conflict and trade hindered, you have no economic boom. It wouldn't have existed.

This period of overall peace maintained by the US presence, it's military capability- the nuclear bomb, until the recent past is what has given the world stability and contributed to the overall greatest boom in world wealth.


The meddling has been good and bad, and not at all equal.

There has been necessary and productive action based on the goal of preservation of world peace and freedom of man, and there has been administrations that have caused conflicts and world interference that were not for the betterment of man. I.e. Lybia.

But if some of you would prefer to be speaking Japanese or German or living under fascism, you can always move.

100 years and everything is about oil my a$$.

Edit to add:

Some real men gave there lives to make the world a better place, a safer place and a more prosperous place.

I'll be damned if I don't call it like it is to someone that has spent his life living off the government tit with the biggest threat being he might twist his ankle getting out of the car to write a ticket to throttle the productivity of people working for a living.
 

gizmom

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Ok I confess we have company in from out of town I haven't seen the news in a week and didn't take time to read all the way through. But if someone is shooting at you do you have to give them their rights before you shoot back? Just trying to be clear. I think they should read him his rights after they shoot him for sure.

gizmom
 
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Margonme

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Commercialfarmer":38mk1e6m said:
WW2 was within the past 100 years, and we were attacked and it wasn't about oil. So the 100 year statement is obviously false, and Monroe doctrine would not have kept us out of it.

Because of WW2, we had interest in preserving the stability of the world.

GB I believe is correct, in that we had infrastructure, but only half correct. You can't build wealth trading with the someone that has nothing to trade back. The exchange is very limited. Our geatest years of economic growth weren't because we had capability and no one esle did. Trade is and always has been a two way street.

And most importantly, the growth we experienced was because the world was at peace. You can have all the capability in the world, but like the dark ages, if the world is in conflict and trade hindered, you have no economic boom. It wouldn't have existed.

This period of overall peace maintained by the US presence, it's military capability- the nuclear bomb, until the recent past is what has given the world stability and contributed to the overall greatest boom in world wealth.


The meddling has been good and bad, and not at all equal.

There has been necessary and productive action based on the goal of preservation of world peace and freedom of man, and there has been administrations that have caused conflicts and world interference that were not for the betterment of man. I.e. Lybia.

But if some of you would prefer to be speaking Japanese or German or living under fascism, you can always move.

100 years and everything is about oil my a$$.

Edit to add:

Some real men gave there lives to make the world a better place, a safer place and a more prosperous place.

I'll be damned if I don't call it like it is to someone that has spent his life living off the government tit with the biggest threat being he might twist his ankle getting out of the car to write a ticket to throttle the productivity of people working for a living.

CF, I ignore you for the most part. I will do a better job at it in the future.
 

Bestoutwest

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backhoeboogie":6wnn2pm9 said:
...FOX is...as liberal as the others...I agree.

You need the "..." at the beginning and end to properly edit a quote and twist someone's words. You see it in reviews for books, movies, etc all the time.

Ex: The New York Times has called it "....a must read..."!

When it could have originally said "This book is awful. It is a must read if you're trying to die from boredom. I can't believe it was published and the person has made any money."
 
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Margonme

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Bestoutwest":3c8ahi2o said:
backhoeboogie":3c8ahi2o said:
...FOX is...as liberal as the others...I agree.

You need the "..." at the beginning and end to properly edit a quote and twist someone's words. You see it in reviews for books, movies, etc all the time.

Ex: The New York Times has called it "....a must read..."!

When it could have originally said "This book is awful. It is a must read if you're trying to die from boredom. I can't believe it was published and the person has made any money."

Oh boy! Give Best a cigar. Happens all the time. "Quote mining"!!!

Commonly Called taking words out of context.
 

backhoeboogie

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Margonme":3i6gz3n9 said:
Bestoutwest":3i6gz3n9 said:
backhoeboogie":3i6gz3n9 said:
...FOX is...as liberal as the others...I agree.

You need the "..." at the beginning and end to properly edit a quote and twist someone's words. You see it in reviews for books, movies, etc all the time.

Ex: The New York Times has called it "....a must read..."!

When it could have originally said "This book is awful. It is a must read if you're trying to die from boredom. I can't believe it was published and the person has made any money."

Oh boy! Give Best a cigar. Happens all the time. "Quote mining"!!!

Commonly Called taking words out of context.

Pretty funny right there!
 
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Margonme

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greybeard":19k9d9cx said:
Brackets, ellipses and sic oh my!

Best course I ever took was etymology of Latin words in science.

sic, Latin for "thus it was written".

I am particular about certain rules. Always show a Latin name in italics, i.e., Homo sapiens.
 

TexasBred

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That's disappearing too Ron. The most common latin phrases are now used so often most don't italicize them anymore even in science.
 
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