Where are Hereford sires for 1,200 lb. cows?

[Mossy Dell]

I can find this in Angus fairly easily. But Herefords appear to have gotten so large. What has happened to this breed? Have Angus totally won as far as being the commercial cow base? I realize there are many terminal-type Angus bulls, but you can find so many other options with Angus, including those for siring smaller cows.

I base this impression on recent perusing of semen catalogs and breeders' web sites. I may be missing something. I hope so. But if you look at the AHA Baldy Maternal Index, I rest my case. The top bull is like + $44, which is great, but most fall far short of that maternal measure. Are the big ranches with commercial Hereford cows as a base breeding their own bulls or what?

 

[R V]

If you don't mind driving to Kentucky, I would go visit Danny Miller. I think you will find what you are looking for.
Ron

 

[KNERSIE]

Deewall herefords in OK

 

[WichitaLineMan]

I understand why you'd ask a question like that but there is no quick and easy answer. The answer would be unique to your area. Genetics and Environment BOTH (and environment to a larger degree) determine mature cow size.

A sire that is siring 1700# cows in western Montana may very well sire 1250# cows here because of forage quality, mineral content of forage, and average ambient air temperature.

The genetic package that may be 1700# in Montana may be 1450# in Kansas 1250# here and 1100# in southern Louisiana.

And for the record, I've been through Deewall's cows in the flesh and they are good and would encourage anyone to use them but they are not 1200# cows. More like 1400#-1500# in their home environment.

 

[Carlos F.]

But Herefords appear to have gotten so large. What has happened to this breed?

Hereford was always a larger breed than Angus.

 

[Aaron]

My neighbour has 1200-1300 lb cows which are about the same frame size as mine, but thinner and small boned. I prefer them with heavy fat and thick bone, so keeping under 1450 would be a challenge, unless you drastically reduced frame size. Also, anything 1300 lb or less live weight is considered 'small' by kill cow buyers here and you get nailed hard on the price because of it.

 

[mrvictordomino]

I understand why you'd ask a question like that but there is no quick and easy answer. The answer would be unique to your area. Genetics and Environment BOTH (and environment to a larger degree) determine mature cow size.

A sire that is siring 1700# cows in western Montana may very well sire 1250# cows here because of forage quality, mineral content of forage, and average ambient air temperature.

The genetic package that may be 1700# in Montana may be 1450# in Kansas 1250# here and 1100# in southern Louisiana.

And for the record, I've been through Deewall's cows in the flesh and they are good and would encourage anyone to use them but they are not 1200# cows. More like 1400#-1500# in their home environment.

Good post WLM, have seen cattle moved to different environments and saw them adjust both ways, some reduced weight in tougher situations and saw some add flesh and weight in lush conditions. Have seen the Deewall herd and agree with your estimates.
Thanks RV for the recommendation. The mature cows here are heavier than 1200 lbs. but I don't think there are any over 1500 for sure.
I think folks would be surprised a little if more cows were weighed.....Most are heavier than we realize. I need to weigh a few myself.
DM

 

[Herefords.US]

I understand why you'd ask a question like that but there is no quick and easy answer. The answer would be unique to your area. Genetics and Environment BOTH (and environment to a larger degree) determine mature cow size.

A sire that is siring 1700# cows in western Montana may very well sire 1250# cows here because of forage quality, mineral content of forage, and average ambient air temperature.

The genetic package that may be 1700# in Montana may be 1450# in Kansas 1250# here and 1100# in southern Louisiana.

And for the record, I've been through Deewall's cows in the flesh and they are good and would encourage anyone to use them but they are not 1200# cows. More like 1400#-1500# in their home environment.

Good answer! And I also agree with the appraisal of Deewall's cattle. Hands down, Deewall's herd is MY favorite of all the Hereford herds that I've seen in person. But they are not 1200 lb. cows.

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but if I was looking for a Hereford bull to sire productive moderate sized baldy females, I would look at ABS Global's UPS DOMINO 3027.

 

[KNERSIE]

I probably should rather have said that Deewalls has the right kind and are in OK, I agree with Aaron that I want bone, thickness and backfat and that will add weight. I'd much rather have a frame 4 1200lb cow than a frame 6 1200lb cow.

 

[Nesikep]

I just sold a bunch, the lot of 3 cows was pretty mismatched, a medium sized cow, probably about 1300-1400, a bigger one, probably about 15-1600, and the mother that was huge, probably about 1800, average weight for the 3 was 1475 I think... Mature weight for my cows around here is minimum 1400, anything smaller and the production drops so badly they get culled (the 1800 lb cow's production wasn't good enough to warrant keeping her either though). I also think a lot of people underestimate the weight of their cows (I read about it being a big problem when dosing medications too).

 

[JHH]

I probably should rather have said that Deewalls has the right kind and are in OK, I agree with Aaron that I want bone, thickness and backfat and that will add weight. I'd much rather have a frame 4 1200lb cow than a frame 6 1200lb cow.[/quote]

Agreed.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

Just notice it said, Oklahoma. They (Deewalls) are VERY close to Oklahoma but are in Kansas! funny how your mind concentrates on some things and misses others...

 

[SPH]

The environment and conditions that cattle are raised in are going to affect weights more than anything. You put the same breeding in 2 different environments or herd management practices and you could get very different results. It is an interesting discussion though, for some guys a 1400 lb cow can be very efficient in their program while for another guy that same cow could be much less efficient being raised in an environment more suitable to a 1200 lb cow.

 

[SPH]

I think folks would be surprised a little if more cows were weighed.....Most are heavier than we realize. I need to weigh a few myself.
DM

Completely agree with you on this statement Danny. We run all our cows across the scale at weaning (granted we only breed about 20-25 head so it's not a too time consuming thing to do) and I think many would be amazed at what their cows are actually weighing compared to what they think they are. Did a quick average calculation going over our weaning worksheet last year and the females that weaned calves averaged 1364 which included a few first calf heifers weighing on the lighter side. Just like the guys that eyeball birth weights, I'm sure some have a good idea what a 80lb calf and 90lb calf look like but I'd rather know for sure and use a scale. What someone might think is a 1200 lb cow may actually be a 1300 or 1400 lb. It gets really interesting too when you start factoring in a dry summer or in our case this year a really wet year I'm sure our cows are carrying a little more weight than usual with the grass still growing well when usually its been grazed down a lot more by now.

 

[WalnutCrest]

The environment and conditions that cattle are raised in are going to affect weights more than anything. You put the same breeding in 2 different environments or herd management practices and you could get very different results. It is an interesting discussion though, for some guys a 1400 lb cow can be very efficient in their program while for another guy that same cow could be much less efficient being raised in an environment more suitable to a 1200 lb cow.

Good posting.

 

[Mossy Dell]

Very interesting responses. From my informal searching, Ellis Farms seems to offer the most information and choice in polled Hereford sires. Including a few that would reduce or moderate frame.

Their EFBEEF TFL U208 Tested X651 ET is with Select Sires and is a frame 4.4 and has impressive maternal and carcass epds:

http://www.selectsiresbeef.com/index.ph ... d=Hereford

 

[Chris H]

We're about 2 hours southwest of you. We aim for a 1200 lb cow.