Whats the Motivation ?

[goddy]

Hi all, Im new to this but not cattle breeding. evaluating etc. Ive been reading the postings and mostly keeping quiet but Ill give it a crack.
I applaud the folk ( especially new breeders) who have been posting pictures of their cattle for comment. Its pretty brave - good on you. But I wonder where people are coming from who give short, uneducated comments like "this bull is crap " and similar.
I see comments from the likes of Doc Harris that are intelligent, well thought out and helpful to the poster but those others are plain ignorant.
If you are a judge of cattle you should be able to find something positive about any animal - if you can't at least give reasons for your negativity.
I fear I may have burned bridges before I built any by writing this but I think it needs saying.
Thanks
Goddy

 

[Brandonm2]

It is always easier to bash the bad ones than it is to talk up the good ones. You are correct....some of us have been too harsh with many animals. OF course (without naming names) we have had SOME animals that were either mismanaged or were seriously flawed who have appeared on here in recent months where there really was little good too say.

 

[aplusmnt]

Hi all, Im new to this but not cattle breeding. evaluating etc. Ive been reading the postings and mostly keeping quiet but Ill give it a crack.
I applaud the folk ( especially new breeders) who have been posting pictures of their cattle for comment. Its pretty brave - good on you. But I wonder where people are coming from who give short, uneducated comments like "this bull is crap " and similar.
I see comments from the likes of Doc Harris that are intelligent, well thought out and helpful to the poster but those others are plain ignorant.
If you are a judge of cattle you should be able to find something positive about any animal - if you can't at least give reasons for your negativity.
I fear I may have burned bridges before I built any by writing this but I think it needs saying.
Thanks
Goddy

Everyone has their style of communicating but most of the bulls that get short and negative only comments are really not deserving of a good comment and a comment that is just searching out a good thing to say might give the wrong impression to the person posting it. I would rather not have my ears tickled personally.

If a bull is obviously a bad bull, and the person post a picture asking for opinions on it, must we really grasp for nice things to say, like I like its ears, or tail? Just to be nice? And yes Doc is articulate and good with words and descriptions but not everyone is like that, but that does not mean they do not know a bad bull when they see one.

If a bull is border line you usually see more descriptive comments about the bull describing the good and bad points.

 

[Alan]

I have to agree with goddy on this, if someone post a pic and ask for thoughts, I think they are after more critique then "it's crap" or "it looks like a hereford to me". I believe the poster would like to know why you feel the way you do. As in, no muscle, no hip, not good depth in the body, ect.

Welcome aboard Goddy

Alan

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I guess I have a bit of a different take on this thing than most people. Genetics are a better determining factor of what kind of calves you are going to have than what your bull looks like. Alot of these bulls that get posted are going into their third year. They were fed up heavy on grain after they were weaned and possibly the current owner isn't feeding grain into the mix. I've seen that alot of times that once a bull gets fed like that, they need that in their diet to stay fat and well muscled. Just remember that the largest number of the calves off these bulls are headed to the feedlot to be fed up on grain and if your bull looked good fed up on grain, probably so will his calves. JMHO.

 

[Frankie]

I guess I have a bit of a different take on this thing than most people. Genetics are a better determining factor of what kind of calves you are going to have than what your bull looks like. Alot of these bulls that get posted are going into their third year. They were fed up heavy on grain after they were weaned and possibly the current owner isn't feeding grain into the mix. I've seen that alot of times that once a bull gets fed like that, they need that in their diet to stay fat and well muscled. Just remember that the largest number of the calves off these bulls are headed to the feedlot to be fed up on grain and if your bull looked good fed up on grain, probably so will his calves. JMHO.

Good points.

 

[goddy]

The replys are interesting, thanks for the view points.
Cattle rack rancher makes sense.
While talk of strong toplines, depth of flank etc in regards to some of these animals is interesting from a judging standpoint so long as a bull is sound, can get the cows in calf and has better genetic potential than the cows you will make progress and hopefully $'s
cheers

 

[Caustic Burno]

The buttered up response's are BS if the bull is crap tell the man if is good say so and why.
A bad bull is a catasophe in a cow herd, a bad cow is a ding.
Cattlemen are like most people and can not objectively look at there cattle, every one things they got the fastest horse cutiest ugly kid to fine looking cattle. They will hold on to one for some of the dumbest reason's I know I have till a neighbor or someone comes by and jolts you back to reality.
Like the guy that posted the full blood limmi with a whole lot of Brammer in the woodpile, That bull at best should have had Wolf Brand Chili stamped on him and been heading for the cannery
You can not improve your herd with a crappy bull this guy lives in Ok he should pm Frankie(you have to give credit due and she knows Angus) and see about a young bull with potential if can't afford an older mature bull and put a real Angus in his pasture.

 

[cypressfarms]

I've found that bulls tend to get torn up much more than cows, heifers, and calves.

If you post a pic of a bull, expect it to be put under a microscope. There are vastly different types of cattle people on this board. I have seen pics posted of fabulous looking bulls, but wondered how much they would melt when put on grass. I don't have use for a bull that can't make it on my pastures, but I'm not a seedstock producer. Someone posted earlier about genetics and looking good fed up on grain.

Well all the genetics in the world will not help a phenotypically inferior bull. And if that super gentic bull can't earn his keep in a pasture, he's no use to me, I don't care how much of a pretty boy he is.

You can "feed up" any calf. The good bulls/cows don't melt away when they are put on good grass - genetically superior/inferior or not.

 

[aplusmnt]

I guess I have a bit of a different take on this thing than most people. Genetics are a better determining factor of what kind of calves you are going to have than what your bull looks like. Alot of these bulls that get posted are going into their third year. They were fed up heavy on grain after they were weaned and possibly the current owner isn't feeding grain into the mix. I've seen that alot of times that once a bull gets fed like that, they need that in their diet to stay fat and well muscled. Just remember that the largest number of the calves off these bulls are headed to the feedlot to be fed up on grain and if your bull looked good fed up on grain, probably so will his calves. JMHO.

I would not want to rest on the genetics of a past generation or 2! I would be asking why if the genetics are so good then did it pass over this Bull. Maybe it is the cows fault and in that case I do not want her bad genetics passed on to my herd either. So to me if a Bull is a bad looking bull he most likely has bad genetics also.

I think anything can look better on grain, but in the end you need the bull to hold up on the grass working with the cows. You need his offspring to do good on grass, and the grain feeding at the feed lots will take care of itself. In my opinion.

 

[milkmaid]

There was a quote awhile back that made me stop and think- "Your cows are where you are at, your bull is where you are going".

I don't have a problem with the critical posts that are made in response to a picture of a cow or bull. (My cow or someone else's.) How else can we learn what a good cow or bull looks like or doesn't look like?

We're dealing with animals, not people - if someone takes offense that their bull is called a piece of trash, well, so be it. I've never seen a post where a good cow was called anything less than a good cow, or vica versa, and that's the way it should be IMO.

 

[goddy]

There was a quote awhile back that made me stop and think- "Your cows are where you are at, your bull is where you are going".

I don't have a problem with the critical posts that are made in response to a picture of a cow or bull. (My cow or someone else's.) How else can we learn what a good cow or bull looks like or doesn't look like?

We're dealing with animals, not people - if someone takes offense that their bull is called a piece of trash, well, so be it. I've never seen a post where a good cow was called anything less than a good cow, or vica versa, and that's the way it should be IMO.

My main point to start this was trashing an animal without giving reasons to make it a learning experience for the poster.
How much can be learnt from getting a" your bull is crap " comment without out any reasons why. Apart from structural soundness, reproductive ability most of the rest is opinion anyway.

 

[cypressfarms]

There was a quote awhile back that made me stop and think- "Your cows are where you are at, your bull is where you are going".

I don't have a problem with the critical posts that are made in response to a picture of a cow or bull. (My cow or someone else's.) How else can we learn what a good cow or bull looks like or doesn't look like?

We're dealing with animals, not people - if someone takes offense that their bull is called a piece of trash, well, so be it. I've never seen a post where a good cow was called anything less than a good cow, or vica versa, and that's the way it should be IMO.

My main point to start this was trashing an animal without giving reasons to make it a learning experience for the poster.
How much can be learnt from getting a" your bull is crap " comment without out any reasons why. Apart from structural soundness, reproductive ability most of the rest is opinion anyway.

Goddy,

You are right to a point. Some people post pictures that are laughable. However, many of the critics have a "perfect" bull in mind when comparing or giving their opinion. When looking at a bull, you really need to know what cows he will be bred to; they must complement each other. This doesn't get enough air time, in my opinion. I don't know that I've ever seen where someone asked to see pics of cows that a bull was going to be bred to when giving an opinion of a bull. (Maybe I just haven't noticed). Sure a bull can be judged independantly, but doesn't it make more sense to have a bull that will compliment your cows, where they may have weak points? Is the difference in price between the perfect bull worth it in calves when compared to a good bull?

 

[ga. prime]

Dang, the only time I ever used "crap" in a post(weeks ago), it was turned into a "be nice." Is this turning into some kind of website rated X?

 

[KMacGinley]

A lot of people that post a picture of a bull get defensive when someone points out that their darling is not up to snuff or that maybe their management of the animal needs a little help.

In the case that you are talking about, the person had a preconcieved notion of how they gonna manage their cattle. (grass, hay and occasional supplements I believe they said.) They bought a bull that had been fed extensively and left him to run with the cows and grow at the same time. He had obviously melted a long time ago. When I and others tried to point out that the cows in the background of the picture were thin looking as well, the person said they were not thin, they just looked like it in the picture. They also were having a problem with cows not cycling until 5 months after calving. They did not want to hear what people had to say about their cattle, because it was pointing out the flaws in their plan, which was to feed cattle incapable of existing solely on grass.... grass. They took their ball and went home. Do you suppose that the guy that sold them the bull in the first place asked them anything about what they were going to do with him or what their environment was? Or did he just cash their check.

I have worked in the purebred industry and know that some of them tend to be on the crooked side. They get a hold of somebody that doesn't know much and sell them what they don't need. Not knowing any better they proudly post a picture and are shocked at the response.

I agree that simply saying that the bull is crap is not the best way to respond, but others usually have pointed out the major points already and the crap poster, (so to speak) is agreeing with what has already been said. I have not seen the first poster say a bull is crap.

If the object of posting a picture is to learn something then I don't think that censuring responses will be very productive. These people that are on here have no financial incentive in lying, they speak the truth or at least their opinion. You don't usually get that from someone trying to sell you something.

Maybe everyone should say: Nice bull? Or do what your mom always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Not much to be learned from that though.

 

[VanC]

A lot of people that post a picture of a bull get defensive when someone points out that their darling is not up to snuff or that maybe their management of the animal needs a little help.

In the case that you are talking about, the person had a preconcieved notion of how they gonna manage their cattle. (grass, hay and occasional supplements I believe they said.) They bought a bull that had been fed extensively and left him to run with the cows and grow at the same time. He had obviously melted a long time ago. When I and others tried to point out that the cows in the background of the picture were thin looking as well, the person said they were not thin, they just looked like it in the picture. They also were having a problem with cows not cycling until 5 months after calving. They did not want to hear what people had to say about their cattle, because it was pointing out the flaws in their plan, which was to feed cattle incapable of existing solely on grass.... grass. They took their ball and went home. Do you suppose that the guy that sold them the bull in the first place asked them anything about what they were going to do with him or what their environment was? Or did he just cash their check.

I have worked in the purebred industry and know that some of them tend to be on the crooked side. They get a hold of somebody that doesn't know much and sell them what they don't need. Not knowing any better they proudly post a picture and are shocked at the response.

I agree that simply saying that the bull is crap is not the best way to respond, but others usually have pointed out the major points already and the crap poster, (so to speak) is agreeing with what has already been said. I have not seen the first poster say a bull is crap.

If the object of posting a picture is to learn something then I don't think that censuring responses will be very productive. These people that are on here have no financial incentive in lying, they speak the truth or at least their opinion. You don't usually get that from someone trying to sell you something.

Maybe everyone should say: Nice bull? Or do what your mom always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Not much to be learned from that though.

My thoughts exactly. I am nominating this one for "Post of the Year." :clap: :clap:

 

[kiku_fs]

A lot of people that post a picture of a bull get defensive when someone points out that their darling is not up to snuff or that maybe their management of the animal needs a little help.

In the case that you are talking about, the person had a preconcieved notion of how they gonna manage their cattle. (grass, hay and occasional supplements I believe they said.) They bought a bull that had been fed extensively and left him to run with the cows and grow at the same time. He had obviously melted a long time ago. When I and others tried to point out that the cows in the background of the picture were thin looking as well, the person said they were not thin, they just looked like it in the picture. They also were having a problem with cows not cycling until 5 months after calving. They did not want to hear what people had to say about their cattle, because it was pointing out the flaws in their plan, which was to feed cattle incapable of existing solely on grass.... grass. They took their ball and went home. Do you suppose that the guy that sold them the bull in the first place asked them anything about what they were going to do with him or what their environment was? Or did he just cash their check.

I have worked in the purebred industry and know that some of them tend to be on the crooked side. They get a hold of somebody that doesn't know much and sell them what they don't need. Not knowing any better they proudly post a picture and are shocked at the response.

I agree that simply saying that the bull is crap is not the best way to respond, but others usually have pointed out the major points already and the crap poster, (so to speak) is agreeing with what has already been said. I have not seen the first poster say a bull is crap.

If the object of posting a picture is to learn something then I don't think that censuring responses will be very productive. These people that are on here have no financial incentive in lying, they speak the truth or at least their opinion. You don't usually get that from someone trying to sell you something.

Maybe everyone should say: Nice bull? Or do what your mom always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Not much to be learned from that though.

I would like to point out that I love how i'm the center of everything now that i have posted a pic of our bull's, and you know something our cows are not thin,

hmmmm they sure are some thins cows aren't they, so all of you leave my cattle alone, we will get our bulls goin, so leave me outta all your talk from now on.
thanks, kiku

 

[Alan]

Kiku,

You shouldn't take offense, I have not seen anyone point fingers at you or anyone else. If I recall, I think there have been several bulls posted that folks said looked like crap. You just drew the attention to yourself.

In answer to other posts on this thread, I'll have to go back a review, but I think there has been a couple of early post, maybe not the for that said something to the effect they look like crap without saying why.

Alan

 

[aplusmnt]

If I remember correctly it seems that a few of the bad bulls that were posted the person mentioned in the original post how much they liked him, or was excited about him, etc..... You are really asking for it when you not only post a bad bull, a bad picture of a bad bull, and then mention how much you like him right out of the box.

One thing I noticed also is when someone post a picture of a good bull everyone tells them so. So in my opinion there proof that people are being honest and mostly correct and not just being mean.

 

[ga. prime]

kiku-hello-you are the center of no one's attention. Except, I suppose you have attained some degree of notoriety for having posted the pic of the most gone-a$$ed bull ever seen on these many, many, many web pages.