Whats the Motivation ?

[kiku_fs]

kiku-hello-you are the center of no one's attention. Except, I suppose you have attained some degree of notoriety for having posted the pic of the most gone-a$$ed bull ever seen on these many, many, many web pages.

I don't want to be in the center of attention, i just don't want all of you ppl taking about our cattle. and thats all.

 

[Brandonm2]

Kiku,

You shouldn't take offense, I have not seen anyone point fingers at you or anyone else. If I recall, I think there have been several bulls posted that folks said looked like crap. You just drew the attention to yourself.

In answer to other posts on this thread, I'll have to go back a review, but I think there has been a couple of early post, maybe not the for that said something to the effect they look like crap without saying why.

Alan

Actually that is not correct. Kiku has very "unorthodox" views of bull development and those of us who have different views felt that Kiku's bulls would look better and be healthier on a much different program and some of us said that in the harshest possible terms. I still believe I am correct; but I think we may have hurt Kiku's feelings in the process.

 

[kiku_fs]

Kiku,

You shouldn't take offense, I have not seen anyone point fingers at you or anyone else. If I recall, I think there have been several bulls posted that folks said looked like crap. You just drew the attention to yourself.

In answer to other posts on this thread, I'll have to go back a review, but I think there has been a couple of early post, maybe not the for that said something to the effect they look like crap without saying why.

Alan

Actually that is not correct. Kiku has very "unorthodox" views of bull development and those of us who have different views felt that Kiku's bulls would look better and be healthier on a much different program and some of us said that in the harshest possible terms. I still believe I am correct; but I think we may have hurt Kiku's feelings in the process.

Look, no one has hurt my feelings, I could really care less what some of you have to say, but I will take all of the advice that you have all givin me, and we will be just fine.

 

[kiku_fs]

I do agree that perhaps his feelings were hurt. However it goes right back to the the question. How are you going to learn what a good bull really is unless someone looks at the pic and tells you its either good or crap. They dont have to necessarily say why its "crap" or even why its good. If someone posts on my cattle and says they are "crap" I dont ask them to elaborate as to why. Luckily I have been very fortunate to purchase good stock. I posted my bull on here and he got rave reviews.

Look i know what good bulls look, just because i don't like bulls that have been fed supplements , doesn't mean anything. And I think I have said this before but I am a female. And my feelings will never be hurt by some freakin ppl over the internet... :roll:

 

[kiku_fs]

Okay fair enough hun. We were trying to help. You dont have to take our advice. I just felt compelled to help you is all. Sorry I tried to help.

How many times do i have to tell you all that i am happy that you all want to help us, but i think we will be fine on our own.

 

[kiku_fs]

I would say ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh about 57 times ;-)

really, thought it was more like 100...lol

 

[Caustic Burno]

Okay fair enough hun. We were trying to help. You dont have to take our advice. I just felt compelled to help you is all. Sorry I tried to help.

How many times do i have to tell you all that i am happy that you all want to help us, but i think we will be fine on our own.

Then why did you ask for advice if you didn't think you needed it?
You posted a bull didn't like the reviews so now you are taking your little red wagon to the house don't forget your ball.

 

[kiku_fs]

Okay fair enough hun. We were trying to help. You dont have to take our advice. I just felt compelled to help you is all. Sorry I tried to help.

How many times do i have to tell you all that i am happy that you all want to help us, but i think we will be fine on our own.

Then why did you ask for advice if you didn't think you needed it?
You posted a bull didn't like the reviews so now you are taking your little red wagon to the house don't forget your ball.

look, i love that you all want to help us, and i have said if our angus bull doesn't shape up we will get ride of him, but other than that, we will be fine doing our own thing.

 

[Rod]

Hi all, Im new to this but not cattle breeding. evaluating etc. Ive been reading the postings and mostly keeping quiet but Ill give it a crack.
I applaud the folk ( especially new breeders) who have been posting pictures of their cattle for comment. Its pretty brave - good on you. But I wonder where people are coming from who give short, uneducated comments like "this bull is crap " and similar.
I see comments from the likes of Doc Harris that are intelligent, well thought out and helpful to the poster but those others are plain ignorant.
If you are a judge of cattle you should be able to find something positive about any animal - if you can't at least give reasons for your negativity.
I fear I may have burned bridges before I built any by writing this but I think it needs saying.
Thanks
Goddy

I'm in agreement with goddy, an evaluation of someones elses property should be constructive. If it happens to be an animal thats not up to par then those areas can be pointed out in a constuctive manner rather than just lashing out about how much they suck. I have to look at dozens of trade-ins each day at my carlot and most people think they've got the nicest one out there, but when I take them on a walk around with me and I touch each dent, scratch,bad tire, cracked glass,tear in the seat,and paint work, then they understand their vehicles short commings. If I were to go out there and tell them its crap, they'd just get pissed off and maybe not understand why I said that. Behind each picture posted there happens to be another living breathing person, and sometimes i think we can forget about that sometimes, I think they'd learn more about their cattle and cattle in general with constructive criticsm.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I'm in agreement with goddy, an evaluation of someones elses property should be constructive. If it happens to be an animal thats not up to par then those areas can be pointed out in a constuctive manner rather than just lashing out about how much they suck.

Well said Rod.

I've seen all manners of posts on here from the ignorant 'that animal sucks' with absolutely no reasons given why the animal sucks to well thought out constructive criticism of an animal. The folks posting 'that animal sucks' probably don't have enough knowledge of animals to be qualified to make a judgement, so they can be safely ignored. If someone says, that animal sucks, and then posts why, they can probably be listened to, but its been my experience that people with alot of bluster probably aren't as bright as they think they are. When someone like Doc Harris posts, I listen. I haven't seen him be mean to a soul, but his criticisms are well thought out and well communicated. Genuinely worth anyones time.

Rod

 

[KMacGinley]

Hi all, Im new to this but not cattle breeding. evaluating etc. Ive been reading the postings and mostly keeping quiet but Ill give it a crack.
I applaud the folk ( especially new breeders) who have been posting pictures of their cattle for comment. Its pretty brave - good on you. But I wonder where people are coming from who give short, uneducated comments like "this bull is crap " and similar.
I see comments from the likes of Doc Harris that are intelligent, well thought out and helpful to the poster but those others are plain ignorant.
If you are a judge of cattle you should be able to find something positive about any animal - if you can't at least give reasons for your negativity.
I fear I may have burned bridges before I built any by writing
this but I think it needs saying.
Thanks
Goddy

I'm in agreement with goddy, an evaluation of someones elses property should be constructive. If it happens to be an animal thats not up to par then those areas can be pointed out in a constuctive manner rather than just lashing out about how much they suck. I have to look at dozens of trade-ins each day at my carlot and most people think they've got the nicest one out there, but when I take them on a walk around with me and I touch each dent, scratch,bad tire, cracked glass,tear in the seat,and paint work, then they understand their vehicles short commings. If I were to go out there and tell them its crap, they'd just get be nice off and maybe not understand why I said that. Behind each picture posted there happens to be another living breathing person, and sometimes i think we can forget about that sometimes, I think they'd learn more about their cattle and cattle in general with constructive criticsm.

We aren't trying to sell anything to anybody, we are just in the education business. Ourselves and others.

 

[KMacGinley]

I'm in agreement with goddy, an evaluation of someones elses property should be constructive. If it happens to be an animal thats not up to par then those areas can be pointed out in a constuctive manner rather than just lashing out about how much they suck.

Well said Rod.

I've seen all manners of posts on here from the ignorant 'that animal sucks' with absolutely no reasons given why the animal sucks to well thought out constructive criticism of an animal. The folks posting 'that animal sucks' probably don't have enough knowledge of animals to be qualified to make a judgement, so they can be safely ignored. If someone says, that animal sucks, and then posts why, they can probably be listened to, but its been my experience that people with alot of bluster probably aren't as bright as they think they are. When someone like Doc Harris posts, I listen. I haven't seen him be mean to a soul, but his criticisms are well thought out and well communicated. Genuinely worth anyones time.

Rod

Maybe you should go back and see what Doc had to say to Kiku. :lol:

 

[kiku_fs]

I'm in agreement with goddy, an evaluation of someones elses property should be constructive. If it happens to be an animal thats not up to par then those areas can be pointed out in a constuctive manner rather than just lashing out about how much they suck.

Well said Rod.

I've seen all manners of posts on here from the ignorant 'that animal sucks' with absolutely no reasons given why the animal sucks to well thought out constructive criticism of an animal. The folks posting 'that animal sucks' probably don't have enough knowledge of animals to be qualified to make a judgement, so they can be safely ignored. If someone says, that animal sucks, and then posts why, they can probably be listened to, but its been my experience that people with alot of bluster probably aren't as bright as they think they are. When someone like Doc Harris posts, I listen. I haven't seen him be mean to a soul, but his criticisms are well thought out and well communicated. Genuinely worth anyones time.

Rod

Maybe you should go back and see what Doc had to say to Kiku. :lol:

I asked to not be included in anymore of you peoples talk , so please try to not mention me, ok...thank you.

 

[KMacGinley]

A lot of people that post a picture of a bull get defensive when someone points out that their darling is not up to snuff or that maybe their management of the animal needs a little help.

In the case that you are talking about, the person had a preconcieved notion of how they gonna manage their cattle. (grass, hay and occasional supplements I believe they said.) They bought a bull that had been fed extensively and left him to run with the cows and grow at the same time. He had obviously melted a long time ago. When I and others tried to point out that the cows in the background of the picture were thin looking as well, the person said they were not thin, they just looked like it in the picture. They also were having a problem with cows not cycling until 5 months after calving. They did not want to hear what people had to say about their cattle, because it was pointing out the flaws in their plan, which was to feed cattle incapable of existing solely on grass.... grass. They took their ball and went home. Do you suppose that the guy that sold them the bull in the first place asked them anything about what they were going to do with him or what their environment was? Or did he just cash their check.

I have worked in the purebred industry and know that some of them tend to be on the crooked side. They get a hold of somebody that doesn't know much and sell them what they don't need. Not knowing any better they proudly post a picture and are shocked at the response.

I agree that simply saying that the bull is crap is not the best way to respond, but others usually have pointed out the major points already and the crap poster, (so to speak) is agreeing with what has already been said. I have not seen the first poster say a bull is crap.

If the object of posting a picture is to learn something then I don't think that censuring responses will be very productive. These people that are on here have no financial incentive in lying, they speak the truth or at least their opinion. You don't usually get that from someone trying to sell you something.

Maybe everyone should say: Nice bull? Or do what your mom always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Not much to be learned from that though.

I would like to point out that I love how i'm the center of everything now that i have posted a pic of our bull's, and you know something our cows are not thin,

hmmmm they sure are some thins cows aren't they, so all of you leave my cattle alone, we will get our bulls goin, so leave me outta all your talk from now on.
thanks, kiku

Hey Kiku: On your website, where you have your male calves listed, what purpose are you selling them at 8 months of age? Breeding stock? Your cows don't look thin on your website, but then your angus bull doesn't either, I assume that that was him standing with the charolais cows?

 

[la4angus]

Then why did you ask for advice if you didn't think you needed it?
You posted a bull didn't like the reviews so now you are taking your little red wagon to the house don't forget your ball.

After reading all of her post's it seems to me that she posted her sorry bulls thinking that everyone was going to tell her how great they looked, when that didn't happen she tells us that she didn't need our advice and to leave her alone. So lets just do that.

 

[kiku_fs]

A lot of people that post a picture of a bull get defensive when someone points out that their darling is not up to snuff or that maybe their management of the animal needs a little help.

In the case that you are talking about, the person had a preconcieved notion of how they gonna manage their cattle. (grass, hay and occasional supplements I believe they said.) They bought a bull that had been fed extensively and left him to run with the cows and grow at the same time. He had obviously melted a long time ago. When I and others tried to point out that the cows in the background of the picture were thin looking as well, the person said they were not thin, they just looked like it in the picture. They also were having a problem with cows not cycling until 5 months after calving. They did not want to hear what people had to say about their cattle, because it was pointing out the flaws in their plan, which was to feed cattle incapable of existing solely on grass.... grass. They took their ball and went home. Do you suppose that the guy that sold them the bull in the first place asked them anything about what they were going to do with him or what their environment was? Or did he just cash their check.

I have worked in the purebred industry and know that some of them tend to be on the crooked side. They get a hold of somebody that doesn't know much and sell them what they don't need. Not knowing any better they proudly post a picture and are shocked at the response.

I agree that simply saying that the bull is crap is not the best way to respond, but others usually have pointed out the major points already and the crap poster, (so to speak) is agreeing with what has already been said. I have not seen the first poster say a bull is crap.

If the object of posting a picture is to learn something then I don't think that censuring responses will be very productive. These people that are on here have no financial incentive in lying, they speak the truth or at least their opinion. You don't usually get that from someone trying to sell you something.

Maybe everyone should say: Nice bull? Or do what your mom always said, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Not much to be learned from that though.

I would like to point out that I love how i'm the center of everything now that i have posted a pic of our bull's, and you know something our cows are not thin,

hmmmm they sure are some thins cows aren't they, so all of you leave my cattle alone, we will get our bulls goin, so leave me outta all your talk from now on.
thanks, kiku

Hey Kiku: On your website, where you have your male calves listed, what purpose are you selling them at 8 months of age? Breeding stock? Your cows don't look thin on your website, but then your angus bull doesn't either, I assume that that was him standing with the charolais cows?

Our male calves are listed on both the calves pages, and I just wrote that for anyone who would be interested in them, and we take our bull calves to sale barn around 7-8 months old. And yes the black angus i posted is in the pic with our charolais.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Maybe you should go back and see what Doc had to say to [unnamed target]. :lol:

<chuckle> Got a little testy, did he? I haven't bothered with the thread, and given the emotions its stirred up, I think I'll pass. :lol:

I should add to my own rant that if someone posts a picture of an animal and asks for it to judged, then they don't have any right to get their noses out of joint if people present criticism in a fair and reasonable manner. There are some pretty bright folks on here, and if a person is able to get past their own pride, they might learn something.

Rod

 

[aplusmnt]

I think lots of people are just confirming it is a bad bull. If someone already mentions it has no muscle, weak top, bad sheath, Under conditioned etc.......

I think everyone else is not feeling compelled to repeat all the bad qualities. But it is good for more to post yea or nea! Greater the numbers in a poll the more accurate it is even if they do not repeat all the same bad qualities others mentioned.

 

[purecountry]

Personally, I'll criticize with or without an explanation if I dam well feel like it. I don't have time to explain my reasons every time I sit down at this keyboard. If I do, I'll try and explain it. I tried to do that a bit by posting pics of excellent bulls, and the newbies can compare and figure it out on their own.

If we're going to take the time to explain the strengths and weaknesses of every animal we see, to everybody that asks, we might all carry cards with our names on them that say Certified Bovine Quality Control Consultant, and charge a friggin fee.

 

[Brandonm2]

Personally, I'll criticize with or without an explanation if I dam well feel like it. I don't have time to explain my reasons every time I sit down at this keyboard. If I do, I'll try and explain it. I tried to do that a bit by posting pics of excellent bulls, and the newbies can compare and figure it out on their own.

If we're going to take the time to explain the strengths and weaknesses of every animal we see, to everybody that asks, we might all carry cards with our names on them that say Certified Bovine Quality Control Consultant, and charge a friggin fee.

If someone won't pay ~$500 more for a decent bull, ~$400 for a bullpen, or $200 for feed to finish growing out their bull, what make you think they would pay a consultant???