What should kids pay for expenses?

[Brute 23]

I am wondering what to charge my 3 girls for their cows? I want them to learn that nothing is free (ok, grandpa gave each one a cow), that there are expeneses (grass rent, vacc, salt and mineral, ect.). But I also want them to make a profit, which goes to their savings acct. They are to young to understand the exact amount, but the oldest has started helping with fence and feeding. The 3 year old can help feed the calves. Has anyone ever done this before? Thanks for your advice.

First of all,,, :clap: . More parents need to take note. There are so many lessons that can be learned from some thing like this that we probably can't list them all. Don't let any one tell you different.

IF I were you I would sit down and run some numbers yourself and see what it comes out to with the basics.
Start with the stuff like vacs that are straight foward expences. (maybe a couple $/ head :???: )
Then go to say grass lease. (IF you have 100ac leased for $10/ac and have 25 head, 3 of them your girls, each girl would be responsible for $40.)
Then on feed. Every time you feed the 25 head 1 bad of cubes at $8... each girl is resposible for $0.32.

Keep going down the list and add it up. Probably leave out labor charges I would think. If their calf from that cow will bring $500 then you can subtract what you calculated for expences. Then play with the numbers until they profit what you think they should. ;-)

Break it all down for them, show them how to do a spreadsheet, keep reciets, pay other people, ect... Family time is priceless, but it doesn't pay the bills. A good understanding of business will get them a long way in life and there is no reason why you can't do both.

May even want to set them up with a little cash in envelopes and call it a loan. They are going to need capital for expences to get started if they don't already have any.

I am personally a big fan of Dave Ramsey and his financial advice. HE says that when you are trying to teach kids about money don't be so strict on the SAVE SAVE SAVE part. IF they get say $20 for their birthday that is a gift. Don't force them to save it. In your case on this deal where they will make money you want to teach them put some into savings, but you want to give them a little to enjoy so they see, touch, feel, play with some of the fruits of their labor. Like maybe they get to spend 1/3 and have to save 2/3. With out a little bit of immediated gradification most people will totally lose interest.

Check out his web site. THere is an area for kids, teens, ect..
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/kids_teens_money_5195.htmlc

I will do some thing very simular when my boy gets a little older. He is going to be 3 in December but already helps out. Yesterday he was dragging 10' pieces of pvc and laying them next to a ditch. They are never to young to learn about hard work and finances. At 8yrs old I worked for the first person who was not family. At 18 I had two people working for me.

 

[Beefy]

i think you should pay their expenses for now. i think the 3 year old is a little young to be doing the math, but when they get old enough to multiply and divide and stuff you should show them how to keep up with records and finances and encourage them to do so. in the meantime jsut do it (take care of the cattle expenses) for them and if you must take out of their profit (if any is realized-are these going to be sold or kept for cows or what?) to cover expenses then do so. you can always reward them monetarily for labor or "extra help" to make it all seem worthwhile if they arent making enough profit from sales to amount to enough savings as you'd like to see.

 

[Brute 23]

Here are some good articles:
http://kids.daveramsey.com/index.cfm?event=displayContent&intContentId=3745

Why should we teach our kids about money?
http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/cms/index.cfm?intContentID=3891

 

[Tep]

Thanks Brutte, I wasn't going to charge them full price. I pay a $1 a day, so if they pay $.01/day I am ok with that. I got the idea from my mom who loves Dave Ramsey. I just want to give them a head start on finances. If we as parents keep giving and giving and giving when do you say no more? I do realize that the time we spend together is "priceless" because before to long they are gone. So I think the more I can teach them the better off they will be. But I will check out that site, thanks

 

[CattleHand]

Did you say one was 3 years old?

IMO charging anything would be pointless. The best lessons they can learn at that age is to have a good work ethic and not worry about the money. I didnt read the rest of the post to know all their ages but if they are too young to go to a sale barn and buy a calf themself then I wouldnt use this as a chance to teach them the value of a dollar but instead teach them how to have a good work ethic and let them have the gift (money) their grandpa gave them.

If they were older, buying their own calves and that was the situation then you can start thinking of a system to use to show them the value of a dollar.

 

[backhoeboogie]

So I think the more I can teach them the better off they will be.

You are on the right track there. You are also to be commended for spending the time with your children in the first place.

Times were pretty tough when I was a kid. Dad almost lost a leg that a horse kicked. He was raising us kids, some more he adopted and another one here and there he took in. Mom had to go to work for a while and women weren't paid much in the early 60's. A jar of peanut butter only goes so far - if you know what I mean.

Everything is part of life's lessons. Once your children get old enough to get curious about finances, talk to them. When you go to the feed store for even trivial purchases, let them shop with you. Be prudent about it and verbalize everything in front of them as if their input is important. "What do you think about buying this?" etc. Just because times are easier now, don't let that sway prudency. You can get those kids thinking without the calves.

Again, I think you should be commended for considering the things you are considering. Let those kids be kids but keep teaching them too. Cows are a lot of responsibility in themselves. Great lessons.

 

[Tep]

I was talking about the 6 year old, she is learning math and I thought this might be a good example. The 3 year old is smart but not ready for this. Just an idea to get them started. Everything the two younger ones make goes to their savings until they are old enough to understand money. We will probably give the 3 year old some money so she can start to understand and look forward to something. But most of it will go to savings.

 

[Brute 23]

Didn't realize how young they were but sounds like you got it under control.

 

[jonbri55]

My kids are in 4-H and have been doing market animal projects for years. My husband and I pay for everything up front. They sell their animals in the Fair Stock Sale-getting quite a bit more than the normal floor price. In the 4-H record book they have to tally all of their expenses so they know how much it REALLY costs to raise their market animal. When they get their checks in the fall, we only charge them half of what their expenses are. That way, not only do they do all of the work for the animal but still have to pay some expenses and make a little extra money.

With such young children, I agree with the majority...have them help you take care of the animals...let them enjoy having the ownership...then when they are older show them how to make money with them. Working out some kind of payment when they are older and understand the concept will help them learn about finances. There's really no better way to learn about life!

 

[milkmaid]

Only thing I can add to what's already been said is -- it's fine for them to have a good work ethic, but be careful! I've seen a lot of farmers/ranchers' kids completely soured on animals because of their parents. Those of us who work with animals know the rewards and we can get more enjoyment out of watching cows graze after a long day than most any paycheck would bring, but when all the kids see is the work and little monentary return (and they don't yet understand the real rewards), they start hating animals and everything to do with farming -- real quick. (Although, I tend to think money isn't everything, even to kids; I know one dairy dad who pays his teenage boys more than I've ever made in a year, and they hate cows with a passion.) If they don't like cows you can't make them like cows by forcing them to work, but if they do like cows, shucks, cultivate that interest -- but teach them in the process. Teach them, give them fond memories of times the farm with the cows, and you may be pleasantly surprised at the results in the end.

 

[V_Key]

My dad saw to it that my early were learning to care for my animals "RIGHT"
My bookkeeping started with 4H _ around 9
At 13 I stumbled into my own Business and that led to Bookkeeping (big time) + sales and Much Much more
Dad made sure I Enjoyed my animals and work FIRST

 

[iowafarmer]

my dad got me started young. He paid for the calf but i had to pay him back for it when i sold it and he would pay for feed and meds in exchange for me helping with chores and harvest and around the yard and house. After 1 i got two as i got older and could do more, like drive the tractor and do field work. Then i had enough money that i bought 6 and sold them and paid for the feed and yard fee and meds. Then kept increasing till i was up to 16 head then i bought a truck adn now im back down to 8. I backrounded the last couple of groups casue i could do two groups a year with backrounding. Bought them around 250lbs and sold them at around 500lbs. sold one group in january and the other group in early june late may. great way to let your kids make money for a vehicle or college while teaching them how to manage a business and work.

 

[rockridgecattle]

I did not grow up in the farming community. However i did make my own money from about age 10. I babysat, alot. Anyhow from about 8 when i got an allowance, I had a chequebook recorder. My dad got 1/2 of my money for savings and i got the other half to spend as i wanted, but not willy nilly. I had to be responsible. At the end of the week my dad went over my cheque book with me and helped me balance my money. It was a good learning tool. It taught me to budget especially if I wanted to buy something big. My dad taught me to be prudent with my money and save.
We do not have kids. But if we did, I too would use cows as a way for them to earn money and learn about expenses, once they got old enough to learn. I mean there is only so much babysitting money they can make in a rural area. I would not ask them to pay dollar for dollar for the expenses, and i would want them to make some money. After all if they did not make some $ why would they want to stick around and farm.
I think teaching our children the value of money is important. But that value has to be taught when they are old enough to understand in a positve enviroment.The only thing i would change from what my dad did is they would tithe some from their earnings. It could be in our church, or to an organization or maybe the food bank, somehthing of their choice...to teach the value of helping their neighbor in life.

On a side note, if my child did not like cows, I would find something else. Be it eggs, bees, garden produce...something tailored to their likes...even a child has to like what they do...a good life experience.

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

With my two boys I gave each of them a cow when they were born. the oldest is 2 1/2 and the other is 1. I came up with the idea that for the time being, the bull calves from those cows would be sold and 1/3 of the check would go to me. If the cow had a heifer, our son gets to keep the heifer and I will grow it into a cow for free, but again all bull calves are sold and I get 1/3 of whatever the calf brings.

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't know about one and three year olds "owning" cows. I kind of would rather waited to gift them the cow until they were capable of grasping that they were receiving a gift. A three year old probably would rather get a stuffed cow. That said IF we are talking about children old enough to actually do real work, don't underestimate the value of the work they are doing. A kid who checks the cows every afternoon studiously, who helps with fence repairs, who is on-call 24/7/365 (when not at school) to help put the cows back up, who bushogs fields, stacks square bales, assists with working cattle, assists with barn repairs, greases tractors and equipment, sweeps the shop, mows the grass around the house and the barns, feeds the working dogs, tends the chickens, hoes the garden, etc and is doing stuff weekly and daily is really accumulating a lot of hours (even if we aren't recording hours). What would it cost to hire a Mexican laborer to do all of that? $8 an hour...maybe if you could find one who would do part time. Since I obviously am not going to actually pay MY kid $8 an hour (or $5 for that matter), I kind of find it a little wierd to then be charging them for vaccinating their one or two cows (who the heck ever vaccinates where we don't toss 5, 10 or 20 doses in the trash at the endo of the day anyway?? Once mixed MLV vaccine it is not any good tomorrow and you never have exactly the same number of doses too cattle and if you do you will waste a dose.) or charging them for the hay their 2 head ate (~the gross costs of baling ~440 rolls of hay factoring in tax benefits of rapid depreciation of equipment divided by 155 cows multiplied by 2 =??). By the time a kid is ~16, you have been working him for over 8 years and if he/she has been raising calves, goats, lambs, hogs, or whatever every year for shows that whole time, I think it is pretty reasonable too expect that the kid has a pretty decent sized wad in the college fund. You are probably going to have to pay for that anyway, so it probably is better if you have been paying along in advance rather than borrowing and paying for it afterwards.

 

[spinandslide]

I am wondering what to charge my 3 girls for their cows? I want them to learn that nothing is free (ok, grandpa gave each one a cow), that there are expeneses (grass rent, vacc, salt and mineral, ect.). But I also want them to make a profit, which goes to their savings acct. They are to young to understand the exact amount, but the oldest has started helping with fence and feeding. The 3 year old can help feed the calves. Has anyone ever done this before? Thanks for your advice.

Just having them do the "work" involved in it would be good enough IMO...

My son is 8, to young to really "do" anything project wise in 4-h with his calf, but he feeds her and cleans out her pen in the evenings. I bought the calf for him, because I wanted him to develop a love of cows and understanding how to raise a healthy, productive animal. Good time spent together too.

When they get older, you can "charge" them stuff..when I was a teenager, my mother started gradually taking away what she helped me with my horse..so it forced me to start looking for a PT job to pay for the horse's upkeep and by the time I was graduated, I was paying for everything myself.

 

[Brute 23]

There are 8yr olds around here that hire out with their dads, brothers, unlces, ect.. as day hands. Its good to teach love and care, but makes sure they know cattle are livestock. They serve a purpose and that is food.

I have an 13yr old cousin that doesn't know how to open a combination lock. Makes me sick and want to kick both his parents in the rear. :x

 

[V_Key]

My Dad worked with me and "Help" me learn Bookkeeping and Livestock and profit/Loss.
I had Goats, Sheep, and Horses to start with
At 10 I wanted Cattle and I had to buy and feed them.
"I" made a deal for 3 fields = 25 acers (Had to disk for fire)
"I" made a deal with a seed Co. 2 plant the Hay (Free Seed)(Test Plots)
"I" made a deal with Coastal Ford Tractor to rent a tractor (First 35 hour Free, then $8 pH after that)
"I" made a deal with Dad to buy his old Disk and other Equipment.
"I" made a deal with another Rancher to Cut, Bale and Road Side my hay
"I" set aside the Hay for my stock I needed for the year
The Auction Yard help me sell the rest.

ALL the profits went into My Bank
At 13 "I" started a News Paper using MY money
My Mom and Dad separated _ I stayed with Dad _ Mom took $5000 out of my Account (1/2)
In High School FFA my News Paper Won 2nd Place in the National FFA Ag Entrepreneurship Contest
I'll graduate form "San Jose State" this Dec. (I worked part time, it took me 6 Years but N0 College Debit)
I also Bought a $19,000 new car in this time
I work 2 jobs now
1 = Devcon Con.
2 = PR @ the 49'ers

My Dad did not Charge Me
He Taught Me!
Photo Proof:
http://imageevent.com/v_key/

 

[V_Key]

That kids can do with a little Heplp

 

[Brute 23]

Ya, too young is not much of an excuse. ;-) Parents think if they shelter their kids from every thing then they have lived a good childhood... what they don't realize is they are setting their kids back and doing them an injustice.