What makes Prime

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The Stockman Grass Farmer. :roll: Let's see the entire article, not your selected section.

Tenderloin is usually wrapped in bacon at a restaurant....to add some taste. We wound up with a lot of tenderloin once upon a time. And we fed some of it to the dog because we got tired of it. There just isn't much flavor there. But if you're raising a breed that isn't known for tenderness or marbling, it's probably the best cut. :D

"Beef carcasses (n = 240), processed using conventional commercial procedures and selected to differ in weight and s.c. fat thickness, were used to evaluate marbling score, s.c. fat thickness, 3-h pH (pH3) of the longissimus muscle (LM), and early-postmortem measurements of LM temperature as predictors of rib steak tenderness. Of the carcass traits evaluated, marbling score was the best single predictor of shear force (WBS) and panel ratings for myofibrillar tenderness (MFT). However, marbling, used alone, accounted for only 9.0 and 5.1% of the variation in WBS and MFT, respectively, and was not associated with panel ratings for connective tissue amount (CTA). Including pH3 in the prediction equation for WBS increased the R2 to .115, and inclusion of s.c. fat thickness in the equation for MFT increased the R2 to .062. Ratings for CTA were most effectively predicted using a regression equation that included 9-h LM temperature, pH3, and s.c. fat thickness (R2 = .063). Marbling score was the most effective factor evaluated for classifying carcasses into tenderness groups. Use of a minimum fat thickness constraint of .5 cm was effective for identifying tenderness differences among Select grade carcasses but was less effective within the Choice grade. Compared with marbling and s.c. fat thickness, pH3 was less effective for use in classifying carcasses into tenderness groups; however, pH3 values below 6.2 were associated with a reduction in tenderness variation. Measurements of early-postmortem LM temperature were not effective for use in identifying differences in tenderness."

http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/72/6/1492


"Consumers may want their beef to look lean and low in fat, but a well-marbled steak is what stimulated the taste buds, an IANR study shows.

"We have done a lot of research to control and improve beef tenderness, but flavor is at least as important as tenderness in terms of customer satisfaction," said Meat Scientist Chris Calkins. Marbling of beef – the streaks of fat that run through the meat – has always been assumed to be an important element of flavor but was tightly linked to tenderness.

"So we did a study that removed the confusion over tenderness," Calkins said.

To do this, Calkins and Dillon Feuz, agricultural economist at NU's Panhandle Research and Extension Center in Scottsbluff, screened hundreds of beef loins to find pairs having identical tenderness but different amounts of marbling. Any perceived flavor differences should then be caused by marbling, Calkins said.

The researchers took their show on the road, surveying consumers in Chicago and San Francisco. Consumers were asked which steaks in a retail display they preferred and would pay more for. Then they were given a series of high- and low-marbled pairs of steaks in a blind taste test and queried about how much they were willing to pay for high- versus low-marbled steak.

"As a general rule, consumers select steak low in marbling from the retail display but identify high marbling as better tasting," Calkins said. "This information will be useful in characterizing consumer preferences for target-marketing efforts."

http://ard.unl.edu/rn/0900/taste.html
 
Frankie":aq8zphtw said:
Personally, I'd take a marbled steak that's not especially tender over fork tender, but bland beef.

Me too. I will always order a rib eye over filet.

Still,consumers want lean and we need to be working on getting to lean, tender and flavorfull. Cooking method is important, but those same picky consumers are also often lazy and want to be able to treat a lean london broil like a porterhouse.
 
Tenderloin is usually wrapped in bacon at a restaurant....to add some taste.

Actually, the reason that bacon is wrapped around a filet is because of the connective tissue, or sinew, that surrounds the whole tenderloin muscle is trimmed away prior to cooking, leaving a less than sightly edge to the steak. The bacon is to smooth out the edge and give it a better look.

I guess you wouldn't know anything about Chateaubriand? :lol:

Tell us why the Tenderloin is the most expensive cut of beef and the most demanded cut of beef in restaurants and the meat case?

I had a USDA grader tell me once while in a packing plant in Kansas that there can be only 2 small flecks of fat/marbling difference between Select beef and Choice beef. :roll:

The USDA grading system is a sham. But I guess you don't believe the MARC studies anymore? :lol:
 
MikeC":31unpjau said:
Tenderloin is usually wrapped in bacon at a restaurant....to add some taste.

Actually, the reason that bacon is wrapped around a filet is because of the connective tissue, or sinew, that surrounds the whole tenderloin muscle is trimmed away prior to cooking, leaving a less than sightly edge to the steak. The bacon is to smooth out the edge and give it a better look.

Because it looks bad? Too funny. The stuff is dry. They add bacon to improve the eating experience.

I guess you wouldn't know anything about Chateaubriand? :lol:

Actually the best meal I ever ate was Chateaubriand at a small German restarurant near the French border. I still think of it sometimes. They had a 4-star chef. The reason he was cooking at that small hotel resturant was because he had married into the family. If we ever get back to that part of the world, we'd try to eat there again. :D

Tell us why the Tenderloin is the most expensive cut of beef and the most demanded cut of beef in restaurants and the meat case?

I don't know that it is. Show me some USDA data or restaurant/supermarket data that confirms that. With a link.

I had a USDA grader tell me once while in a packing plant in Kansas that there can be only 2 small flecks of fat/marbling difference between Select beef and Choice beef. :roll:

Two flakes, one flake, it doesn't matter. The grader calls like he sees it and higher quality beef is known to be more tender and sell for more money that the same cut of lower quality beef. Spin all day long, Mikie, but the facts are still there.

The USDA grading system is a sham. But I guess you don't believe the MARC studies anymore? :lol:

MARC studies say the USDA grading system is a sham? I haven't seen that. Please, post a link to that report. Our USDA grading system is the standard for the rest of the world's beef business. Like it or not, it's how you'll get paid for your cattle if you sell in the meat. Crying and whining don't change things. But you do have hope, I guess, since you have some Angus cattle. :p
 
Frankie":2jtps1gm said:
But you do have hope, I guess, since you have some Angus cattle. :p

Don't feel so bad about that Mike, I won't hold it against you. I'm still stuck with a couple myself.
 
Would like to really comment here but this horse has been beaten to death...
Agree that the slaughter and aging are important factors, a stressfull kill and poor aging can ruin the best meat. We slaughter on the farm and our carcasses are aged two weeks. We also stress cooking methods to our customers and provide pamplets to reinforce that overcooking will ruin good beef.
Customer education...
DMc
 
Actually the best meal I ever ate was Chateaubriand at a small German restarurant near the French border. I still think of it sometimes. They had a 4-star chef. The reason he was cooking at that small hotel resturant was because he had married into the family. If we ever get back to that part of the world, we'd try to eat there again.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Just a thought, but I believe the British Whites/British White Parks are doing well on the yield and grade scores also. They don't have formal EPD's yet, but some of the breeders are keeping them and giving them to the association.

from one website: http://www.wengers.com

Cut-Out Data Average
Ribeye 13.5 sq. inches
Back Fat .27
Grade Choice 86%
Yield Grade 93% YGI&2
Hot Carcass 705 pounds
This information has been compiled by several
breeders across the U.S.
 
Is this the same for black hide cattle too?



usernametaken":345ytd4r said:
Just a thought, but I believe the British Whites/British White Parks are doing well on the yield and grade scores also. They don't have formal EPD's yet, but some of the breeders are keeping them and giving them to the association.

from one website: http://www.wengers.com

Cut-Out Data Average
Ribeye 13.5 sq. inches
Back Fat .27
Grade Choice 86%
Yield Grade 93% YGI&2
Hot Carcass 705 pounds
This information has been compiled by several
breeders across the U.S.
 
Frankie":3w048ywn said:
Fat carries the flavor of the meat. I posted an article a while ago about a university study. They injected lean beef with pork fat and people thought they were eating pork. They injected lean pork with chicken fat and they thought they were eating chicken, injected chicken with beef fat and they though they were eating beef, etc. Marbling is fat. More marbling in beef, the more beefy taste. Tenderness is important, but I don't think it's the trait to chase. Personally, I'd take a marbled steak that's not especially tender over fork tender, but bland beef.

On the other hand, one in four Select (less marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. Only one in six Choice (more marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. And a tough Prime steak is practically unheard of. The research puts the relationship between tenderness and marbling at 10%. I've had meat scientists from OK State University tell me they think the relationship is much higher than that. Maybe we'll get some current research on marbling and tenderness in the next few years.

I agree Frankie, with respect to your point that the fat is where the taste is and I also read/heard that you can't tell the difference when the fat is added to different types of meat-the meat will take on the taste of the respective type of fat that is added. I too, will take a highly marbled steak over a supposedly tender one any day as juiciness and flavor trumps tenderness imo. However I have yet to eat that tough, well marbled steak,marbling=tenderness imo.
I have to add, many times when surveys of consumers are taken, a lot of people won't know what the term marbling means, but everyone knows what tenderness means, leading to skewed data.(Consumer- Marbling??? I am not going to show my ignorance, but I know what tenderness is,so I vote tenderness)
I was guilty myself many years ago-picking out the prettiest,leanest sirloin at the meat counter. Then I became educated, now I know to look for the marbling. BTW you can make most all beef tender, you just have to age it longer but aging won't do a thing to add taste. Taste comes from
marbling/juciness, the fat/marbling has to already be there before aging.














.
 
OhioRiver":20hsjuot said:
Is this the same for black hide cattle too?



usernametaken":20hsjuot said:
Just a thought, but I believe the British Whites/British White Parks are doing well on the yield and grade scores also. They don't have formal EPD's yet, but some of the breeders are keeping them and giving them to the association.

from one website: http://www.wengers.com

Cut-Out Data Average
Ribeye 13.5 sq. inches
Back Fat .27
Grade Choice 86%
Yield Grade 93% YGI&2
Hot Carcass 705 pounds
This information has been compiled by several
breeders across the U.S.

Ohio River - I don't really know the answer to your question. I was kind of hoping some others would let me know if this was not that good or was very good or somewhere in between. I'm not terribly familiar with these type of stats, but I am thinking it is very good. I am sure it is not just breed that influences it though - but also how the steers are raised.

Melissa
 
OhioRiver":xaftp8z3 said:
Is this the same for black hide cattle too?



usernametaken":xaftp8z3 said:
Just a thought, but I believe the British Whites/British White Parks are doing well on the yield and grade scores also. They don't have formal EPD's yet, but some of the breeders are keeping them and giving them to the association.

from one website: http://www.wengers.com

Cut-Out Data Average
Ribeye 13.5 sq. inches
Back Fat .27
Grade Choice 86%
Yield Grade 93% YGI&2
Hot Carcass 705 pounds
This information has been compiled by several
breeders across the U.S.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the same for black hide cattle..." These are good figures. 86% choice, 93% YG 1s and 2s are pretty good. Carcass size is adequate and so is ribeye.

On the other hand, we don't know how many animals, how they were managed, etc. Can black hided animals do this well? Yes, and so can some red ones, yellow ones and maybe some tiger striped ones.
 
I suspect that much of the decline in quality of beef is due to a general decline in cooking skills of the general public. In our fast food age a LOT of people simply don't know how to cook. A klutz in the kitchen can make the best meat come out bad.
 
"As a general rule, consumers select steak low in marbling from the retail display but identify high marbling as better tasting," Calkins said. "This information will be useful in characterizing consumer preferences for target-marketing efforts."

http://ard.unl.edu/rn/0900/taste.html[/quote]

Also consider that a lot of retail customers don't understand what you are talking about when you mention 'marbling'. I have had some describe it as that wide band of fat around the edge of the steak.
 
MikeC":2igyhf6s said:
Marbling can be identified fairly easily with ultrasound. Tenderness cannot.

I have read some preliminary work about some folks who say they can identify tendernes by fiber shape. it's been a couple of years and I dont remember where, but I have read it. they didnt convince me.
 
BAGTIC":ia040ywc said:
A klutz in the kitchen can make the best meat come out bad.

and a master in the kitchen can make mediocre steak taste above average... :roll:
 
Frankie":2hjdpmwu said:
OhioRiver":2hjdpmwu said:
Is this the same for black hide cattle too?



usernametaken":2hjdpmwu said:
Just a thought, but I believe the British Whites/British White Parks are doing well on the yield and grade scores also. They don't have formal EPD's yet, but some of the breeders are keeping them and giving them to the association.

from one website: http://www.wengers.com

Cut-Out Data Average
Ribeye 13.5 sq. inches
Back Fat .27
Grade Choice 86%
Yield Grade 93% YGI&2
Hot Carcass 705 pounds
This information has been compiled by several
breeders across the U.S.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the same for black hide cattle..." These are good figures. 86% choice, 93% YG 1s and 2s are pretty good. Carcass size is adequate and so is ribeye.

On the other hand, we don't know how many animals, how they were managed, etc. Can black hided animals do this well? Yes, and so can some red ones, yellow ones and maybe some tiger striped ones.

Thanks for the confirmation on the numbers, Frankie.
 

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