What makes Prime

[kenojoe]

I was forced to sell all of my stock and will let my fields recover from the drought. I want to cut back, and raise a few calves to sell as finished beef to individuals. My question is, what does it take to make prime grade? Is it all genetics? Is it how it is raised and finished? Is it a combination of both? I don't want to stir the breeds pot but, is there one breed more than others that has good marbling and gets rated prime. Angus ,hereford, shorthorn some type of cross? I have read articles that claim grass finished beef had great flavor but not quite as tender as grain finished. I have read alot on this subject but value your thoughts and opinions more than anything. Thanks for any advice. Joe

 

[dun]

If the genetics are there the way it's fed, if done properly, will aloow it to realize the potential to grade prime. Without the genetics, no amount of feed will get it there.

 

[larryshoat]

I'm sorry to hear you had to sell your cattle. I'm sure this set back is the beginning of your next success. Dun answered the question very well I think. Good Luck !

Larry

 

[Frankie]

I was forced to sell all of my stock and will let my fields recover from the drought. I want to cut back, and raise a few calves to sell as finished beef to individuals. My question is, what does it take to make prime grade? Is it all genetics? Is it how it is raised and finished? Is it a combination of both? I don't want to stir the breeds pot but, is there one breed more than others that has good marbling and gets rated prime. Angus ,hereford, shorthorn some type of cross? I have read articles that claim grass finished beef had great flavor but not quite as tender as grain finished. I have read alot on this subject but value your thoughts and opinions more than anything. Thanks for any advice. Joe

What Dun said. Genetics first then management. Most beef breeds have EPDs for marbling to help you identify animals that will marble. Higher quailty beef (more marbling) is more likely to be tender. Healthy cattle will be more likely to marble so don't skimp on herd health. The Japanese breed Wagyu is known for high marbling, but they don't gow as well as some beef breeds. Jersey beef is supposed to be very good, marbled and tender beef, but, again, their grown is slower. Good luck....

 

[MikeC]

Tenderness is the #1 factor in a good "Beef Eating Experience".

It has been shown time and time again, that there is only a 10% correlation between Tenderness and Marbling.

If you want to be ready for the future, try to find cattle that produce Tender beef because of all the research being done to identify it.

There are several breeds that have Warner-Bratzler shear test data on some particular bloodlines.

Marbling can be identified fairly easily with ultrasound. Tenderness cannot.

You would be ahead of the game to prepare and identify for both in the future.

 

[backhoeboogie]

To go along with what everyone else said (I agree), my method is remembering which steer was prime, once processed and either sold to friends or family, or put into my own freezer. Retain heifers out of that cow. Some cows suprise you. I have a brindle mix that puts out prime. Customers want her calves for the freezer. We all know that the bull also plays a part.

 

[Rich]

MikeC

Hi, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about marbeling and tenderness. I think they do go hand in hand. Do you have any particular links that a guy could read that back your claim there is only a 10 percent correlation between the two?

One thing that people overlook and it is not the fault of the retailer or producer but it is the consumer, is how they cook it. These outlets that try and cook a steak fast on a hot plate with an iron laying on top are not going to give you a tender steak. When you push all the marbeling juices out all it does it dry the steak out and a dryer steak is for a tougher steak.

Now there is no doubt age is the biggest key player. An old cow is going to be shoe leather compared to a Finished steer under 24 months.

But lower heat at longer cooking time without compression on the meat is going to do more for a juicy meal than the exact opposite.

I'd like to see some proof that diassociates the two traits.

Rich

 

[kenojoe]

Thanks for the responses. In my part of KY most everything is black, I don't know if thats because the market demands it or if Angus is just that much better. Ask 10, get 10 different opinions. I want to buy local. I'm not sure how many producers in the county will be able to produce EPD's, maybe more than I figure. I have always taken better care of my stock than alot around here so I believe the care and management part is OK. I am not fixed on black cows or one that weighs 1500lbs. I want to raise 6 or 7 good tasting, tender beef to sell off my farm. No shortage of people asking me for freezer beef. Still uncertain of what breeds are best. Will I be able to find calves to raise that aren't sold as breeding stock, therefore much higher priced. I have always bought feeders in the past and wasn't quite as concerned as I know am about top quality. Do you think I'm wasting my time trying to market beef this way. Thanks Joe

 

[MikeC]

BEEF TENDERNESS: REGULATION AND PREDICTION
M. Koohmaraie, T. L. Wheeler, and S. D. Shackelford
USDA-ARS U. S. Meat Animal Research Center, Clay Center, NE 68933
Introduction
Consumers consider tenderness to be the single most important
component of meat quality (Figures 1 and 2). This fact is easily
confirmed by the positive relationship between the price of a cut
of meat and its relative tenderness (Savell and Shackelford,
1992). Inconsistency in meat tenderness has been identified as
one of the major problems facing the beef industry (Morgan et al.,
1991; Morgan, 1992; Smith, 1992; Savell and Shackelford, 1992).
Uniformity, excessive fatness, and inadequate
tenderness/palatability were all part of the top 10 quality
concerns of the beef industry (Smith, 1992). A recent survey
reported that consumers were dissatisfied with the eating quality
of beef prepared at home more than 20% of the time (Miller, 1992).
One supermarket chain that asks customers to return any meat they
are not satisfied with had $364,000 worth of meat returned in a
three year period, 78% of which was due to tenderness problems
(Morgan, 1992). The real magnitude of the tenderness problem is
realized by considering the fact that only 0.1% of unhappy
customers actually complain or return the product (Wilkes, 1992).
This happens despite the technology that has been developed to
improve the consistency of meat tenderness (e.g., postmortem
aging, mechanical tenderization, electrical stimulation, and
addition of plant enzymes).
The beef industry relies on the USDA quality grading system to
segment carcasses into groups based on varying levels of expected
meat palatability. However, the results of numerous
investigations of the relationship between marbling and beef
palatability indicate that, although there is a positive
relationship between marbling degree and tenderness, juiciness,
and flavor, this relationship is weak at best (reviewed by
Parrish, 1974). There are far too many carcasses with tender meat
that are discounted and far too many with tough meat that are not
discounted under the current USDA quality grading system (Wheeler
et al., 1994a; Figure 3). The data collected at U.S. Meat Animal
Research Center (MARC) indicate that both subjective and objective
estimates of raw and cooked steak chemical composition are
unrelated to meat tenderness (Figures 4 and 5).

 

[MikeC]

MikeC

Hi, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about marbeling and tenderness. I think they do go hand in hand. Do you have any particular links that a guy could read that back your claim there is only a 10 percent correlation between the two?

One thing that people overlook and it is not the fault of the retailer or producer but it is the consumer, is how they cook it. These outlets that try and cook a steak fast on a hot plate with an iron laying on top are not going to give you a tender steak. When you push all the marbeling juices out all it does it dry the steak out and a dryer steak is for a tougher steak.

Now there is no doubt age is the biggest key player. An old cow is going to be shoe leather compared to a Finished steer under 24 months.

But lower heat at longer cooking time without compression on the meat is going to do more for a juicy meal than the exact opposite.

I'd like to see some proof that diassociates the two traits.

Rich

Toward more tender beef
Agricultural Research, March, 1995 by Ben Hardin
Shopping at a supermarket meat counter stocked with fine-textured, firm, bright-red steaks, you want to pick one that will cook up really tender. Your best guess is to take one that's well marbled with tiny flecks of fat.

For today's savvy shoppers, marbling is the only indicator of tenderness. But with tomorrow's technologies, less knowledgeable consumers may be more confident of choosing beef that is tender and tasty.

ARS researchers hope in the next 10 years to advance the science of breeding animals so that such meat is reliably classified and consistently available.
Because tenderness of beef is not highly predictable and is known for sure only when the meat is eaten, it has been identified as one of the hottest topics in the livestock and meat industry, says Dan Laster, director at the Roman L. Hruska U.S. Meat Animal Research Center (MARC) in Clay Center, Nebraska.

But marbling accounts for only about 10 percent of the variation in meat tenderness, says animal physiologist Mohammad Koohmaraie, head of the center's Meats Research Unit. From among many other positive and negative influences on tenderness, he and his colleagues have found an enzyme-inhibiting protein called calpastatin that accounts for another 44 percent of the variation in tenderness of aged beef.

Depending on cattle's genetic makeup, different levels of calpastatin exist in the meat and contribute to toughness by inhibiting an enzyme - calpain - in the postmortem aging, or tenderizing process.
***************************
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_16983512

 

[Rich]

So basically what I'm reading is that they are going to have to come up with a test to identify the level of calpastan in each beef and then age appropriately. Apparently 14 days hanging in a 33 degree cooler isn't enough for some.

I knew that. I had forgotten but reading the article reminded me. The aging process of hanging before being processed and frozen has a very direct correlation to tenderness.

Thanks for the reading.

I still think part of it too has to deal with how some people cook. Put spam on a hot plate with an iron on top and hit it fast with intense heat and you can make bricks out of it.

 

[Tod Dague]

MikeC

Do you have any particular links that a guy could read that back your claim there is only a 10 percent correlation between the two?

:lol: :lol: Welcome to the boards. Mike probably has a dozen more to go with those. I don't always agree with Mike but he does his homework. ;-)

 

[Rich]

Heh heh, well that's good if he had more. I'll bet somewhere out there information is availble that is less than a decade old. *GRIN*.

Thanks for the welcome too, I appreciate it.

Sometimes I find a civil disagreement will surface alot of information that both sides can learn from. Alot of times both people are right......just not entirely. At any rate, I'm not here to brow beat anyone. Just trying to broaden my horizon in an industry I care about.

Hope to interact with all of you on a good note soon.

Rich

 

[No Bull]

I read that Galloway and their crosses were more tender in some sort of study. They are popular in grass fed programs.
I have also been looking into Romagnola as they are also known for their tenderness. There is not alot of information available and I imagine they would be hard to find.
If your research turns up something interesting please let me know as I am looking along the same lines.
This spring we will be eating an Angus/Irish Black cross. I will let you know the results.

 

[novatech]

MikeC

Hi, I am going to have to disagree with your statement about marbeling and tenderness. I think they do go hand in hand. Do you have any particular links that a guy could read that back your claim there is only a 10 percent correlation between the two?

One thing that people overlook and it is not the fault of the retailer or producer but it is the consumer, is how they cook it. These outlets that try and cook a steak fast on a hot plate with an iron laying on top are not going to give you a tender steak. When you push all the marbeling juices out all it does it dry the steak out and a dryer steak is for a tougher steak.

Now there is no doubt age is the biggest key player. An old cow is going to be shoe leather compared to a Finished steer under 24 months.

But lower heat at longer cooking time without compression on the meat is going to do more for a juicy meal than the exact opposite.

I'd like to see some proof that diassociates the two traits.

Rich

Which meat cuts are tender?
Those that you pay most for, basically. But tenderness is not guaranteed by price. There will be tough meat cuts in every grade. Tough meat cannot be recognised by eye when you are buying at the supermarket. In the USA, where cattle are fed grains and other supplements to lay down extra fat within the muscle ('marbling'), consumers often choose the most 'marbled' cuts as an indication of tenderness. Yet marbling accounts for a mere 10% of the variation in tenderness. Many lean carcasses that testing has shown were tender have received lower grades because they don't have enough visible fat marbling to be classified as 'USDA choice' or higher. And yet marbling is a very poor predictor of tenderness.
Taken from
http://www.naturalhub.com/buy_food_meat_tenderness.htm

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

This goes hand in hand with the old Colorado State studies from the early 90's. The CHB program was founded on information derived from those studies. The original CHB was a blend of Select and Choice because it was proven that English breeds in general, and in this study Hereford in particular, have better tasting and more tender beef in the select grade than the upper 2/3 USDA "mine run" Choice. I mailed Bez copies of those documents a couple years ago or so.

 

[grannysoo]

I can't back my thoughts up with scientific documents, but my opinion (and it's strictly my opinion) is that some of the tenderness or lack thereof has to do with the slaughter process. Stressed cows are going to release chemicals in the system that will toughen the meat. When herded in large groups at the feedyards/slaughterhouses, you are going to have a very stressful situation on the cow that is not in the best interest of the beef consuming public.

Ask any deer hunter that kills/eats a deer that has been running vs. one that is killed still hunting... which tastes best and is more tender? (The one that has not been stressed!)

My cows go to the slaughterhouse at least 24 hours in advance, have time to settle down, plenty of feed and water and then when they least expect it, they become quality beef.

I know that this is not do-able in all situations, but it works for me. Ever so tender....

(and listen to Mike / he's giving you good info.)

 

[Driven]

Flavor helps tantalize the tongue. Get a steer that is tender and get good flavor - you got something. Good flavor is what is missing IMHO. Gone by the way side these days.

 

[Frankie]

Fat carries the flavor of the meat. I posted an article a while ago about a university study. They injected lean beef with pork fat and people thought they were eating pork. They injected lean pork with chicken fat and they thought they were eating chicken, injected chicken with beef fat and they though they were eating beef, etc. Marbling is fat. More marbling in beef, the more beefy taste. Tenderness is important, but I don't think it's the trait to chase. Personally, I'd take a marbled steak that's not especially tender over fork tender, but bland beef.

On the other hand, one in four Select (less marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. Only one in six Choice (more marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. And a tough Prime steak is practically unheard of. The research puts the relationship between tenderness and marbling at 10%. I've had meat scientists from OK State University tell me they think the relationship is much higher than that. Maybe we'll get some current research on marbling and tenderness in the next few years.

 

[MikeC]

Fat carries the flavor of the meat. I posted an article a while ago about a university study. They injected lean beef with pork fat and people thought they were eating pork. They injected lean pork with chicken fat and they thought they were eating chicken, injected chicken with beef fat and they though they were eating beef, etc. Marbling is fat. More marbling in beef, the more beefy taste. Tenderness is important, but I don't think it's the trait to chase. Personally, I'd take a marbled steak that's not especially tender over fork tender, but bland beef.

On the other hand, one in four Select (less marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. Only one in six Choice (more marbling) steaks is likely to be tough. And a tough Prime steak is practically unheard of. The research puts the relationship between tenderness and marbling at 10%. I've had meat scientists from OK State University tell me they think the relationship is much higher than that. Maybe we'll get some current research on marbling and tenderness in the next few years.

From the "Stockman Grassfarmer":

"They also encourage diners to order Filet Mignon or tenderloin which has a much higher margin than the New York strips or Porterhouses because it can come from any grade cattle. Tenderloin is not graded because it normally does not have marbling."

*****************************************


The tenderloin is the most expensive cut of beef because of demand and customer satisfaction although it has very little marbling but is very tender.

Juicyness and flavor is most always dependant on cooking methods.

Yet you say: "Fat carries the flavor of the meat."?

********. :lol: