Weaning weights

[bird dog]

You have to realize that some years are just going to be off years. My fall calving cows for which I am weaning their calves at this time are off about 50 lbs per calf. This works out to about a 1/4 lb per day. Why? Well no rain through the winter is the main culprit. I rely on some cool season grass's and planted oats. They just did not have the moisture to do anything this year. Now that we have had some rain they are catching up some but the first batch of weaner's were way off.

Now the good thing about a bad year is it really makes a few cows stand out. Those who held condition and weaned a calf close to their average are the one's to really pay attention to. As WBVS mentioned, scales are a necessity to really figure out whats going on.

 

[Ebenezer]

Weaning weights are an easy target and sales pitch. The key to profit is what weight do the buyers want. You might make less to wean 6 weight calves than 5 weights if you need to feed more or have fewer cows to produce them. Sure, bottom end cows are needed to be culled. Market them well, too. They are part of your income stream. But the key is cow fertilty: 10X the value of production traits, they say. Whomever "they" are!

 

[simme]

Stocking rate is more than just acres per cow. Forage may be native grasses or improved pasture and of course, stocking rate needs to be adjusted for forage type, quantity and quality. Here the main grasses are fescue and Bermuda. I see people who say they have fescue, but a closer look shows that they have or had a little fescue. It will be so thin and spotty that the normal stocking rate for fescue will be overstocked for that pasture. Crabgrass will come in later in the summer, but what about prior to that. Point is to be objective in looking at your pastures and don't overstock. Forage availability over the grazing year will change. Don't be tempted to stock based on the best part of the year. People tend to think about breed of cow and quality of bull. Those are important but after that they need enough grass to make the weight. Think about people. Eat every meal off a tiny plate and the weight won't be there. Look at forage as well as genetics.

 

[MurraysMutts]

So the gelbvieh cross that raised my smallest calf is now on the cull list..
Dern it!

I just loaded her, thinking I'd move her to my fall calving place. Her front feet have turned to bananas. So she's not only raised a smaller calf (not a dink just smaller) bit feet are terrible. We are heading to the sale with her.

I agree it starts with good paperwork and performance based culling on cows.

Not all that long ago we started putting more emphasis on our bulls. They are not high dollar by any means but we stepped up a notch from where we were. I started looking for moderate sized animals with good growth. I think it has paid off on our weaning weights.

Now the reality of environment. I can haul the same exact cow and bull from one property to the next and change the weight of calf she will wean. Some properties just have better soil, better grass, better what ever and just produce more pounds. Heck some pastures put weight on cattle better than others. Some land is just poor and you can actually hurt yourself by having more genetics than nutrition. You have to match the genetics to the environment.

I try to focus on things I can control like keeping good books, culling, buying the right genetics, and not over grazing. It's very hard for me to control the quality of the land.

Remember, it's not all about what they sell for. I will take calves that bring $600 when I have $300 in them over calves that bring $800 and I have $600 in them all day long.

I have noticed this!! My fall place, the cows just do better. Always in better condition. And I think the calves for the most part do better.

You have to realize that some years are just going to be off years. My fall calving cows for which I am weaning their calves at this time are off about 50 lbs per calf. This works out to about a 1/4 lb per day. Why? Well no rain through the winter is the main culprit. I rely on some cool season grass's and planted oats. They just did not have the moisture to do anything this year. Now that we have had some rain they are catching up some but the first batch of weaner's were way off.

Now the good thing about a bad year is it really makes a few cows stand out. Those who held condition and weaned a calf close to their average are the one's to really pay attention to. As WBVS mentioned, scales are a necessity to really figure out whats going on.

These weights seem to be the average for me. Can't seem to break 500!
I really would like to wean 500 to 550lb calves. Not necessarily 600 or higher. I just wanna do better I guess. 500 to 550 seems to be the sweet spot for weaners.

I've also noticed, my fall calving place hasn't had the amount of winter grasses as last year. There used to be quite a bit down by the creek that run thru.

 

[gcreekrch]

I just loaded her, thinking I'd move her to my fall calving place. Her front feet have turned to bananas. So she's not only raised a smaller calf (not a dink just smaller) bit feet are terrible. We are heading to the sale with her.

I have noticed this!! My fall place, the cows just do better. Always in better condition. And I think the calves for the most part do better.

These weights seem to be the average for me. Can't seem to break 500!
I really would like to wean 500 to 550lb calves. Not necessarily 600 or higher. I just wanna do better I guess. 500 to 550 seems to be the sweet spot for weaners.

I've also noticed, my fall calving place hasn't had the amount of winter grasses as last year. There used to be quite a bit down by the creek that run thru.

Half the battle is wanting improvement, keep in mind that other than a change of bulls, increased weaning weights can come with increased cost of production. In the end it is dollars per cow left over rather than how much the calves weigh that you deposit in the bank.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

MM's > You can select bulls that index high for weaning weight and keeping the heifer calves. The downside is the possibility
of the cows becoming larger than economically viable. For the past 20 years I have used 70 and under birthweight, low weaning
index and plus 110 year weight bulls. Also personally I do not care for a high milk index as it requires more solar energy to run milk
through a cow to feed a calf than it does for the calf to eat the grass for itself. 60 day of milk is plenty in my opinion. I try to calve in
April to mid May and wean dark of the moon October, I don't scale the calves but it is not uncommon for some to work at getting
to the feed in the bunk. By the time I market in late March to mid April the steers will run 900 + and the heifers in the mid 8's mosa
minos. I feed distillers, ground corn and middlin quality hay. Now to be candid I think if one has the time, facilities and the all
important temperment and a good sense of the market that buying and selling (trading) cattle will result in better cashflow as the
income stream is more consistant. (That would not be me). I subscribe to pounds of beef per unit of land with the least maternal input
as opposed to price per pound of beef. and a good relationship with a reputable auction. LVR

 

[MurraysMutts]

Banana feet brought nearly what I gave for her as a bred heifer. And she's giving me 3 calves!
I'm happy with that.
And I've officially culled an animal for bad feet only.

On the to next one ol son!

As they say in the movies...

Have not found a bull that tickles my fancy yet. But I sure appreciate everyone's feedback. There's lot of things I can do in the meantime to improve things.

 

[J+ Cattle]

@MurraysMutts what does your pasture look like?
It's hard to wean a good sized calf if the grass isn't tall enough to cover a hoof. As @simme said they need groceries in good quality and abundant quantity to grow. Creep feeding costs money and should be limited to hopefully only a few poor doing calves.

 

[MurraysMutts]

@MurraysMutts what does your pasture look like?
It's hard to wean a good sized calf if the grass isn't tall enough to cover a hoof. As @simme said they need groceries in good quality and abundant quantity to grow. Creep feeding costs money and should be limited to hopefully only a few poor doing calves.

Fall calvers pasture is all dead. Like I said cow do great over there! And I've sold a few off that place so I expect better this year .
Now home.....
Got some improvement to do. PROBLY got too many cows. And I'll probly be selling or moving a couple more yet.

That's certainly on the top of my list and thank you for bringing it up!!
In short, the grass is pretty good. Just overstocked. And these spring calvers at home are gonna need it! So I've gotta get right on it.

 

[wbvs58]

I think your country has a lot to do with your weaning weights, doesn't mean you shouldn't measure and try to improve though. My country has very poor sandy granite soil, is very rough and rocky undulating, lots of weeds, is mostly native grasses with some introductions yet my weaning weights are 2nd to none. No creep feeding or supplementing cows except in drought years. I start calving the beginning of July and wean end February early March so they will be 7-8 mths of age. Most of the July calves will wean around the 350kg mark (770 lb) with a couple of the early ones nudging the 400 kg mark. The cows breed back well. West of town here the 250 kg weaning weights would be more the norm. I don't know what it is here but it certainly is a good breeding block even if it is a bit rough. I have improved the genetics but was still getting great weaning weights when I started with a mixed lot of commercial cattle. The overall ground cover and grass quality has improved in the 15 years I've been here, mostly due to managing the grazing.

Ken

 

[Warren Allison]

. Now to be candid I think if one has the time, facilities and the all
important temperment and a good sense of the market that buying and selling (trading) cattle will result in better cashflow as the
income stream is more consistant. (That would not be me).

Horses and cattle, I have always made a lot more money buying and selling, than fooling with breeding and raising. Well, I have stood 3 great stallions at stud in my life, and made money on them. But I never had but one foal out of a mare I owned born on my place, and I sold the pair when it was 5 days old. In any kind of trading...livestock, cars, art, whatever... your money is made or loss when you buy, not when you sell. You have to have the temperment for it, like you said, Lee. I LOVE dickering and haggling when I buy, and I LOVE using my salesman skills when I sell. The last 15 years or so, I already have a place for them to go...have them sold...before I ever buy cattle. Even better, is when I get asked to buy herds for people. These past 6 months I had a client that wanted 150 Braford or F1 Br x Her cows, and have me a budget of $1800 a head. I paid $2k for a few, and $2500 for a couple, but the bulk I bought at $1500 to $1250 or less. He gave me $270k to spend, and I spent about $225k. $45k profit (minus my time and fuel), for riding around, making phone calls, and time on the internet doing what I love to do... haggling!!

 

[MurraysMutts]

Horses and cattle, I have always made a lot more money buying and selling, than fooling with breeding and raising. Well, I have stood 3 great stallions at stud in my life, and made money on them. But I never had but one foal out of a mare I owned born on my place, and I sold the pair when it was 5 days old. In any kind of trading...livestock, cars, art, whatever... your money is made or loss when you buy, not when you sell. You have to have the temperment for it, like you said, Lee. I LOVE dickering and haggling when I buy, and I LOVE using my salesman skills when I sell. The last 15 years or so, I already have a place for them to go...have them sold...before I ever buy cattle. Even better, is when I get asked to buy herds for people. These past 6 months I had a client that wanted 150 Braford or F1 Br x Her cows, and have me a budget of $1800 a head. I paid $2k for a few, and $2500 for a couple, but the bulk I bought at $1500 to $1250 or less. He gave me $270k to spend, and I spent about $225k. $45k profit (minus my time and fuel), for riding around, making phone calls, and time on the internet doing what I love to do... haggling!!

I certainly hope your customer don't read these pages!

 

[Brute 23]

Horses and cattle, I have always made a lot more money buying and selling, than fooling with breeding and raising. Well, I have stood 3 great stallions at stud in my life, and made money on them. But I never had but one foal out of a mare I owned born on my place, and I sold the pair when it was 5 days old. In any kind of trading...livestock, cars, art, whatever... your money is made or loss when you buy, not when you sell. You have to have the temperment for it, like you said, Lee. I LOVE dickering and haggling when I buy, and I LOVE using my salesman skills when I sell. The last 15 years or so, I already have a place for them to go...have them sold...before I ever buy cattle. Even better, is when I get asked to buy herds for people. These past 6 months I had a client that wanted 150 Braford or F1 Br x Her cows, and have me a budget of $1800 a head. I paid $2k for a few, and $2500 for a couple, but the bulk I bought at $1500 to $1250 or less. He gave me $270k to spend, and I spent about $225k. $45k profit (minus my time and fuel), for riding around, making phone calls, and time on the internet doing what I love to do... haggling!!

I have a handful of F1s for sale and just our luck they are listed at $2000 each. It's like it was meant to be.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Murry - do you rotational graze? Like move cows every 3-5 days? I am in a totally different situation than you. I have super lush native pastures - but I rotate them constantly. Mow weeds at least once during the summer. Hay some of my pastures because spring growth is too much for my herd to keep up with.
I can't say that I've paid attention to your cows - you post more bottle babies. But, as mentioned, your COWS are important and need to be fertile myrtles with natural muscling - not dairy cross cows. A super great bull "can" improve the calf crop, but he is only half the equation. Cull cull cull. You have started with your "banana" footed cow!!

 

[MurraysMutts]

Murry - do you rotational graze? Like move cows every 3-5 days? I am in a totally different situation than you. I have super lush native pastures - but I rotate them constantly. Mow weeds at least once during the summer. Hay some of my pastures because spring growth is too much for my herd to keep up with.
I can't say that I've paid attention to your cows - you post more bottle babies. But, as mentioned, your COWS are important and need to be fertile myrtles with natural muscling - not dairy cross cows. A super great bull "can" improve the calf crop, but he is only half the equation. Cull cull cull. You have started with your "banana" footed cow!!

Shes gone! Sold her today and bought 2 old one n dones.

I guess I oughtta just spill it..
Got about 15 mamas on 35 acres here at home. Some are heifers, some are wet cows with calves. So definitely need to back that off. I manged to not feed hay last year thru summer. But when the rain stopped hay came out early. Didn't have that problem at the other place. 15 cows on 44 acres.

Now, I do kinda halfazz rotate at home. There's 9 acres fenced. 5 acres fenced. 1 acre fenced. The rest is one big pasture. But it's become pretty obvious to me, I've just got too many cows!

Culling has started. Scrutinizing the ones that are left. Fact is, I've done enough moving things around, I've gotta make new cow lists as to what is where etc.

 

[Warren Allison]

I certainly hope your customer don't read these pages!

He might, but I did what he asked me to do. I bought him 150 superior head of 2nd to 4th calf cows, for $1800 each, $270k. I doubt he figured I was doing this for free, nor would he have wanted me to.

 

[J+ Cattle]

@MurraysMutts with that many cows on a small area you will kill out the grass. It will decline each season and soon you'll have nothing but weeds. Maybe you should get rid of the bull permanently, he will eat a lot of grass. AI instead or rent or borrow a bull. Get rid of all the cows except for a half dozen nurse cows and raise calves that you buy as splits from the sale barn.

 

[MurraysMutts]

@MurraysMutts with that many cows on a small area you will kill out the grass. It will decline each season and soon you'll have nothing but weeds. Maybe you should get rid of the bull permanently, he will eat a lot of grass. AI instead or rent or borrow a bull. Get rid of all the cows except for a half dozen nurse cows and raise calves that you buy as splits from the sale barn.

I have definitely considered that.
This place ran 14 mamas for decades b4 I came along. But I don't like the way the grass is appearing to go. I'm probly gonna cut em back to 10 or so. Keeping only the best!! And that'll include my nurse cows.

The bull splits his time tween here and there so it helps. There will be a couple months this year that I rent him out! To cows that used to belong to me! Not interested in renting him to unknown herds.

With those reductions I'm almost positive I can make it work rotating them. I should probly divide the big pasture and see how that goes. Problem is water... there's always a problem isn't there?

 

[gcreekrch]

I certainly hope your customer don't read these pages!

I was thinking the same thing, we pay our order buyer $10 per head commission if I can't be at a sale.

 

[Rmc]

The last few years we have actually made more money with lower weaning weight. Selling calves 30 plus days earlier has put more money in our pocket. Total price per calf is about the same. Cows and pasture go into winter in better condition. Lowering the amount of hay we have had to feed .