USw National Oil Strike

[Caustic Burno]

We are on a rolling 24 hr contract . Local issues have been settled at my plant. New hires lost pension. We gained 4 percent in our 401. Company wanted to do away with the me too clause . We would have walked over that . I hope usw. Signs soon.

Look for this to go two three months.
Marathon is going to be a tough nut to crack on local issues.
Marathon can be real stubborn like old Amoco.
With them acquiring TC plant they are going to get the benefits in line
with the company.
Dumbest move the USW made was pulling that site out should have kept them on a rolling 24.
That keeps the company under the gun as well on projects and TARs.
They have to keep all the company people on a short leash.
I worked both sides I hated the rolling 24 more from the company side.

 

[JSCATTLE]

We are on a rolling 24 hr contract . Local issues have been settled at my plant. New hires lost pension. We gained 4 percent in our 401. Company wanted to do away with the me too clause . We would have walked over that . I hope usw. Signs soon.

Look for this to go two three months.
Marathon is going to be a tough nut to crack on local issues.
Marathon can be real stubborn like old Amoco.
With them acquiring TC plant they are going to get the benefits in line
with the company.
Dumbest move the USW made was pulling that site out should have kept them on a rolling 24.
That keeps the company under the gun as well on projects and TARs.
They have to keep all the company people on a short leash.
I worked both sides I hated the rolling 24 more from the company side.

I heard marathon came to the table with 38 takeaways. I'm sure glad our company isn't that bad.

 

[highgrit]

Sounds like unions are costing the general public money again.
Greybeard, I was a mate then captain on the company's sport fishing boat.

 

[Caustic Burno]

We are on a rolling 24 hr contract . Local issues have been settled at my plant. New hires lost pension. We gained 4 percent in our 401. Company wanted to do away with the me too clause . We would have walked over that . I hope usw. Signs soon.

Look for this to go two three months.
Marathon is going to be a tough nut to crack on local issues.
Marathon can be real stubborn like old Amoco.
With them acquiring TC plant they are going to get the benefits in line
with the company.
Dumbest move the USW made was pulling that site out should have kept them on a rolling 24.
That keeps the company under the gun as well on projects and TARs.
They have to keep all the company people on a short leash.
I worked both sides I hated the rolling 24 more from the company side.

I heard marathon came to the table with 38 takeaways. I'm sure glad our company isn't that bad.

I read the proposal and of coarse there is some Mickey Mouse stuff they are wanting as always and not worth walking over.
My Dad went to work in same facility in 1941 when the companies motto was kill a man hire another one kill a horse buy another one. His generation did the heavy lifting getting a pension, sick leave and vacation. About 90% of his bunch
died of weird cancers. There was one unit in the Carbide Plant across a chain link fence, we know that a chain link fence is a vapor barrier that had the highest rate of brain cancer in the world. There was a elementary school about 1/4 mile downwind
and a lot of the kids, teachers and moms died of weird leukemia.
When I went to work there we were 100 times more likely to die than a Houston Police officer.
My generation got after the safety policies and pay to compensate for the work environment as sucked
you could make more working construction on on new equipment. That was a major safety issue as well in the turn over
rate and getting people properly trained and retaining them.
The FRC policy that is in place in that refinery I lead the charge for as I was
tired of going in and getting burnt up men. Until you go in and get a guy with all his skin hanging off him and your telling him the whole time he is going to be OK and you know your talking to a dead man. That will give nightmares and have you taking Valium to sleep. Nothing like body bags and the smell of a guy you know in one. I can still see everyone of them and remember their names. I carried collections to 6 widows in the 1980 strike as that will haunt you as well. It is a smell you will never forget. We got after the safety on Benzene, Carbon TetraChloride , Chromate and Polynuclear Aromatics were the really bad actors and some others as well. All stuff that will make you glow in the dark.
I fought hard for certified trained operators as well, wrote a lot of the requirements in place today.
I fought that fight as a Union hand and won it when I got over in management.
When I went to work there was a board with a list posted at the gate. You might not work the same unit two days in a row.
It was absolutely ridiculous as most units take at least three to five years to really learn.
I would have walked as well over the Pension and Safety issues.

 

[Caustic Burno]

JSC there are a few issues I saw the boys are just going to have to suck it up.
Marathon is going to get the benefits standardized between sites.
I think what they are really scared of is the company game of buying a site and wiping out all
you have worked for the last twenty years. That is pretty common in our industry.
I know the boys at Chocolate Bayou took it in the shorts and BP sold off the plant in the hostile take over of Amoco
as they did with nearly every other site.
BP took over Amoco for the retirement fund as it was one of the only over funded accounts in the country.
Soon as they took over they sold off most of the refineries and left those boys hanging.
Your account was either frozen or rolled over to there plan. They pocketed a lot of worker money.

 

[backhoeboogie]

GreyBeard your a little older than me, so you should remember 1979-80 just fine. Jimmy Carter deregulated oil and the price of oil tripled. Then the oil compainies said we had a shortage of oil, which led to gas rationing, and long lines at the pumps. The price of oil has never went back to where it started. And all the while the oil companies were making record profits. Record profits on deregulated oil = stealing. And when they claim there's a oil shortage and 35 years later we still haven't run out of oil, that's lying to me. We haven't run out of oil yet, and we won't.

14 semi tankers sitting on the Running M. Ready to go to California. But they were paying him $100 per day, per truck, to leave them parked. $100 per day was a lot of nickels back then.

 

[greybeard]

I've never really understood this whole strike thing. Worked my whole life for the other guy--the man, took his $$ and gave him 8 hrs or whatever was required, made a dang good living out of it for the most part and never once thought about just walking off or leaving one in a bind. Been lots of times I wanted to but didn't for the sole reason that I said I would do the job no matter what. drilling rigs, radiation remediation, machine shops, mechanic shops--and a whole lot worse than those.
I just don't get it.

Port slowdowns or lockouts loom on the west coast.

James McKenna, the president of the Pacific Maritime Association, said backups and delays at many of the ports are harming farmers, manufacturers and consumers as the flow of goods approaches a "coast-wide meltdown." He called on the International Longshore and Warehouse Union to accept management's second formal contract proposal since negotiations began last May.

"We're not considering a lockout," McKenna said on a conference call with reporters, his first public comments since the talks began. "What I'm really saying is that this system will bring it to a stop. Once that happens, we really don't have a choice."

The association of shipping lines, terminal operators and stevedores made public details of its contract offer, including 3 percent annual raises over five years, retaining employer-paid health care, and raising pensions by 11 percent. The average dockworker now makes $147,000 a year in salary, plus $35,000 a year in employer-paid health care and an annual pension of $80,000, according to an association press release.

Federal Mediator

The previous six-year contract expired last July. A federal mediator agreed Jan. 6 to intervene in negotiations between the two sides in San Francisco. Negotiators have announced tentative agreements on health care and maintenance of truck chassis used to transport containers from ships.
The surprising PMA offer includes an agreement by employers to continue paying 100 percent of dockworkers' medical costs, including the Cadillac tax under ObamaCare. The employers' proposal would increase annual pension payments to $88,800 a year, in a contract employers propose will run for five years.

After the chassis agreement was struck Jan. 27, Wade Gates, a spokesman for the maritime association, said his side was hopeful for a full contract agreement "in the near term."

Since then, the longshore union made "significant new demands" including the right to unilaterally fire workplace arbitrators, the management association said.

Craig Merrilees, a spokesman for the 20,000-member longshore union, said the two sides continue to make progress as they negotiate this week in San Francisco.

"The number of outstanding issues is getting smaller and the differences are decreasing," Merrilees said by telephone. "We'll get there if everyone stays focused on solving the issues, which are easily addressed."

In a statement Wednesday, the union pledged to keep ports open and goods moving.

Work Slowdowns

McKenna blamed the union for work slowdowns that have contributed to congestion at the largest West Coast ports, including Los Angeles, Long Beach, Oakland, Seattle, Tacoma and Portland. Twenty-two ships were queued up Wednesday at the harbor shared by the Los Angeles and Long Beach ports, up from as few as four in mid-December, according to the Marine Exchange of Southern California, in one measure of the backups confronting shippers.


Since early November, the longshore union has been dispatching fewer crane operators in Los Angeles and Long Beach and slowing cargo movement in Oakland, Seattle and Tacoma, according to a Feb. 3 maritime association presentation. McKenna said productivity at many ports is down by as much as half, suggesting that cargo movement "will collapse under it's own weight".

 

[JSCATTLE]

The usw isn't sticking together as a whole. Picking which plants go out and which keep working . It should be all or nothing. What a lot of union hating people and people that work at non union plants don't think about is their pay scale and safety standards are set by union contracts . The non union sites have to keep up or they lose all of their good hands to higher paying sites. I keep reading a lot of people from different places saying just fire the union guys and hire new employees . Most people think the job is easy and you don't do anything for 12 hrs a day . But there is a lot of training involved to run a plant.the first time you have an explosion and you have to step over body's to fight the fires . Which is usually liquid or vapor fuel spraying out of pipes. In order to keep the community from burning or blowing up . You will understand why these guys and gals are compensated the way they are .

We have 4 spheres in our plant that contain so much ethylene oxide that if just one blew up it would level a 7 mile radius around our plant. We basically all know we will eventually get cancer from the stuff we make . But we do it to better our families financial situations. We chose to do this just like policemen choose to put their lives n the line. I like what I do and wouldn't go back to construction unless I had no other choice . With negotiated contracts every 3 years we know the company is looking to take something away . We counter with an equally insane offer to counter the company's insane offer in hopes to meet I the middle .

Gone are the days of receiving gifts for retirement or Christmas. My. Grandfather was given a Rolex by DuPont when he retired . They would have thanksgiving dinner brought out if they were working that day . My company use to buy 18 wheeler loads of TV's and house hold items to give to every employee at Christmas. It's no longer the company taking care of their employee s . You are just a number . There are 2000 people standing in line waiting to take your job when you leave. So company's will do what they can to increase profit . Be it safety short cuts. Asking you to work more so they don't have to hire someone else. Fewer turn a rounds to fix leaks ( which we breathe everyday) or bad piping.. This is why union members walk out .

None of this is over money. Texas is a right to work state . We can be fired for striking over money. Ill go where the money is . As most people will do. But that leaves new guys and the scrubs at the low paying sites . It makes for a very dangerous situation not only for the employees but for the people that live just outside the fence . Like cb said that chain link ( vapor barrier) doesn't protect the community .

 

[Caustic Burno]

The usw isn't sticking together as a whole. Picking which plants go out and which keep working . It should be all or nothing. What a lot of union hating people and people that work at non union plants don't think about is their pay scale and safety standards are set by union contracts . The non union sites have to keep up or they lose all of their good hands to higher paying sites. I keep reading a lot of people from different places saying just fire the union guys and hire new employees . Most people think the job is easy and you don't do anything for 12 hrs a day . But there is a lot of training involved to run a plant.the first time you have an explosion and you have to step over body's to fight the fires . Which is usually liquid or vapor fuel spraying out of pipes. In order to keep the community from burning or blowing up . You will understand why these guys and gals are compensated the way they are .

We have 4 spheres in our plant that contain so much ethylene oxide that if just one blew up it would level a 7 mile radius around our plant. We basically all know we will eventually get cancer from the stuff we make . But we do it to better our families financial situations. We chose to do this just like policemen choose to put their lives n the line. I like what I do and wouldn't go back to construction unless I had no other choice . With negotiated contracts every 3 years we know the company is looking to take something away . We counter with an equally insane offer to counter the company's insane offer in hopes to meet I the middle .

Gone are the days of receiving gifts for retirement or Christmas. My. Grandfather was given a Rolex by DuPont when he retired . They would have thanksgiving dinner brought out if they were working that day . My company use to buy 18 wheeler loads of TV's and house hold items to give to every employee at Christmas. It's no longer the company taking care of their employee s . You are just a number . There are 2000 people standing in line waiting to take your job when you leave. So company's will do what they can to increase profit . Be it safety short cuts. Asking you to work more so they don't have to hire someone else. Fewer turn a rounds to fix leaks ( which we breathe everyday) or bad piping.. This is why union members walk out .

None of this is over money. Texas is a right to work state . We can be fired for striking over money. Ill go where the money is . As most people will do. But that leaves new guys and the scrubs at the low paying sites . It makes for a very dangerous situation not only for the employees but for the people that live just outside the fence . Like cb said that chain link ( vapor barrier) doesn't protect the community .

I always thought we had it easy JSC at least we didn't work in a hole to keep the country moving.
Never could wrap my head around going in a coal mine with those hazards and absolutely no way out.

 

[greybeard]

One of my sons worked in a Va coal mine for a couple of months as a contractor. If I had known about it, I would have made him and his family move here and live with us-------But he didn't/wouldn't tell me about it until after had quit. Only way out is the way you went in, something happens to that pathway, bad things happen, but many have equated it to working in the engineering spaces of a large ship--usually only one, maybe 2 ways out of them either--the main entrance and an escape hatch.

 

[JSCATTLE]

There are a lot worse jobs than working in a plant . I don't think I could go down in a hole like the coal miners do. Shift work is hard on your body and family life. It seems like every other week someone is catching their wife cheating. She knows he's lock in for 12 hrs . I hope this is resolved soon so we can stop worrying about it.

 

[TexasBred]

There are a lot worse jobs than working in a plant . I don't think I could go down in a hole like the coal miners do. Shift work is hard on your body and family life. It seems like every other week someone is catching their wife cheating. She knows he's lock in for 12 hrs . I hope this is resolved soon so we can stop worrying about it.

Don't ever think that is limited to refinery workers only. You worry about your wife while you're working??

 

[highgrit]

Back in the day the rig workers and supply crew's worked 2 weeks on 1 week off. That left some maidens with to much time at home alone. Now with the Internet it's got to be out of control.

 

[JSCATTLE]

There are a lot worse jobs than working in a plant . I don't think I could go down in a hole like the coal miners do. Shift work is hard on your body and family life. It seems like every other week someone is catching their wife cheating. She knows he's lock in for 12 hrs . I hope this is resolved soon so we can stop worrying about it.

Don't ever think that is limited to refinery workers only. You worry about your wife while you're working??

Naa I don't worry about it . Hell they didn't break the mold when they made that one. As long as I can stick around long enough I don't have to pay child support I'm good. If they are gonna cheat it will happen when you think she's at the grocery store.

 

[Caustic Burno]

There are a lot worse jobs than working in a plant . I don't think I could go down in a hole like the coal miners do. Shift work is hard on your body and family life. It seems like every other week someone is catching their wife cheating. She knows he's lock in for 12 hrs . I hope this is resolved soon so we can stop worrying about it.

Those boys went through some rough crap trying to get mine safety.
Companies even used machine guns on the workers till the government sent in troops.

 

[TexasBred]

When asked what surprises him most, the Dalai Lama replied:

"Man surprises me most. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present.
The result being that he does not live in the present or the future. He lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

 

[greybeard]

When asked what surprises him most, the Dalai Lama replied:

"Man surprises me most. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present.
The result being that he does not live in the present or the future. He lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

Only if he fears death. Don't live as if you will never die--live as if you will die in the next hour--or minute.

 

[TexasBred]

When asked what surprises him most, the Dalai Lama replied:

"Man surprises me most. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present.
The result being that he does not live in the present or the future. He lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived."

Only if he fears death. Don't live as if you will never die--live as if you will die in the next hour--or minute.

:lol: :lol: I've known a few who claimed to live that way. They were no different.

 

[greybeard]

Maybe you walked different roads than I have TB.

Strike expands to 2 more plants today.

WHITING, Ind., Feb. 8 (UPI) -- The United Steelworkers union announced Sunday the expansion of its strike to two new oil refineries.
Over 1,000 workers went on strike early Sunday at the BP oil refinery in Whiting, Ind., while more than 400 workers did the same at a Husky Energy plant in Toledo, Ohio. Striking employees at the two plants join about 4,000 union steelworkers striking at nine other refineries across the United States after negotiations that began Jan. 21 between USW and Shell Oil Company broke down 10 days later.

The talks involved, among other things, worker safety, wage increases and reductions in non-union worker contracts. USW says it called the strikes after representatives from Shell walked away from the negotiating table last Saturday.

"Shell refused to provide us with a counter-offer and left the bargaining table," USW International President Leo W. Gerard said in a statement. "We had no choice but to give notice of a work stoppage."

USW International Vice President of Administration Tom Conway said the oil industry is one of the wealthiest in the world and is well capable of making the changes suggested. "The problem is that oil companies are too greedy to make a positive change in the workplace and they continue to value production and profit over health and safety, workers and the community," Conway said.

Shell spokesman Ray Fisher said it was regrettable that the company was unable to reach a "mutually satisfactory agreement with the USW," and asserted its willingness toward "resolving the remaining issues through collective bargaining at the bargaining table."

The USW represents thousands of workers at 65 U.S. refineries responsible for approximately 64 percent of domestic oil production, but the strike has had little reported affect on oil production, as oil companies have utilized replacement workers.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I've never really understood this whole strike thing. Worked my whole life for the other guy--the man, took his $$ and gave him 8 hrs or whatever was required, made a dang good living out of it for the most part and never once thought about just walking off or leaving one in a bind. Been lots of times I wanted to but didn't for the sole reason that I said I would do the job no matter what. drilling rigs, radiation remediation, machine shops, mechanic shops--and a whole lot worse than those.
I just don't get it.

Port slowdowns or lockouts loom on the west coast.

James McKenna, the president of the Pacific Maritime Association, said backups and delays at many of the ports are harming farmers, manufacturers and consumers as the flow of goods approaches a "coast-wide meltdown." He called on the International Longshore and Warehouse Union to accept management's second formal contract proposal since negotiations began last May.

"We're not considering a lockout," McKenna said on a conference call with reporters, his first public comments since the talks began. "What I'm really saying is that this system will bring it to a stop. Once that happens, we really don't have a choice."

The association of shipping lines, terminal operators and stevedores made public details of its contract offer, including 3 percent annual raises over five years, retaining employer-paid health care, and raising pensions by 11 percent. The average dockworker now makes $147,000 a year in salary, plus $35,000 a year in employer-paid health care and an annual pension of $80,000, according to an association press release.

Federal Mediator

The previous six-year contract expired last July. A federal mediator agreed Jan. 6 to intervene in negotiations between the two sides in San Francisco. Negotiators have announced tentative agreements on health care and maintenance of truck chassis used to transport containers from ships.
The surprising PMA offer includes an agreement by employers to continue paying 100 percent of dockworkers' medical costs, including the Cadillac tax under ObamaCare. The employers' proposal would increase annual pension payments to $88,800 a year, in a contract employers propose will run for five years.

After the chassis agreement was struck Jan. 27, Wade Gates, a spokesman for the maritime association, said his side was hopeful for a full contract agreement "in the near term."

Since then, the longshore union made "significant new demands" including the right to unilaterally fire workplace arbitrators, the management association said.

Craig Merrilees, a spokesman for the 20,000-member longshore union, said the two sides continue to make progress as they negotiate this week in San Francisco.

"The number of outstanding issues is getting smaller and the differences are decreasing," Merrilees said by telephone. "We'll get there if everyone stays focused on solving the issues, which are easily addressed."

In a statement Wednesday, the union pledged to keep ports open and goods moving.

Work Slowdowns

McKenna blamed the union for work slowdowns that have contributed to congestion at the largest West Coast ports, including Los Angeles, Long Beach, Oakland, Seattle, Tacoma and Portland. Twenty-two ships were queued up Wednesday at the harbor shared by the Los Angeles and Long Beach ports, up from as few as four in mid-December, according to the Marine Exchange of Southern California, in one measure of the backups confronting shippers.


Since early November, the longshore union has been dispatching fewer crane operators in Los Angeles and Long Beach and slowing cargo movement in Oakland, Seattle and Tacoma, according to a Feb. 3 maritime association presentation. McKenna said productivity at many ports is down by as much as half, suggesting that cargo movement "will collapse under it's own weight".

What's in a dock workers job description that the average is 147k + pension.

Is it so loaded at the top this isn't a useful figure?

The figures some people are making and want more is just crazy to me.