Trask 4013

[HerefordSire]

Was it 5,600 acres @ $12 per acre, or $67,200, in the late Great Depression for an island and then later moved?

Here is Mossy Plato 26 (notice the lack of public female information):
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5920272E22

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

A good read, jhambley. Thanks. I didn't see an animal in those pics that I thought wouldn't look good in anyone's pasture today, and the weaning weights were not bad either.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Herefordsire: God doesn't make mistakes. Man does, however, and all you have to do is look at the current position of the Hereford breed versus the position of Trask's time to know that this is true. Do you think the Hereford breed would be better off now if we'd stuck to breeding cattle like his, or going to the gutless wonders of the eighties? THERE ARE A FEW BREEDERS WHO HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THE EXTREMES, and they are where I'm trying to go for answers and a foundation for the future.

 

[1848]

Nothing's Changed........... :roll:

Well, well, well...lookie who showed up! How is it going for you 1848? I kind of missed your devil's advocate philosophy, even though we all know who the greatest breeder on earth is. :mrgreen:

hahahah! Kinda missed the self professed expert myself... ;-)

 

[HerefordSire]

Herefordsire: God doesn't make mistakes. Man does, however, and all you have to do is look at the current position of the Hereford breed versus the position of Trask's time to know that this is true. Do you think the Hereford breed would be better off now if we'd stuck to breeding cattle like his, or going to the gutless wonders of the eighties? THERE ARE A FEW BREEDERS WHO HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THE EXTREMES, and they are where I'm trying to go for answers and a foundation for the future.

I don't know enough about the history of Herefords to answer your question. Maybe you can teach me what you know. One problem I have in studying Hereford history, is why can't I find certain dams and sires of all animals registered like Mossy Plato 26's dam? Surely Trask knew the dam. Was the dam registered?
Was the dam a Simmental? Was the dam and Angus Hereford cross? Tell me why Trask knew the dam of 26 and not us. Also, if I search for registration numbers, why are some registration numbers missing? For example, here is registration #1 with no dam or sire listed:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=5C5E59

...and here is registration #20 which is Sir Thomas:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 6&9=5C5D51

...where is #2 through #19? Where is #21 and higher? Why are there gaps? Why is the AHA hiding this information by not allowing us to query with more control? Are they doing this intentionally?

 

[KNERSIE]

Herefordsire: God doesn't make mistakes. Man does, however, and all you have to do is look at the current position of the Hereford breed versus the position of Trask's time to know that this is true. Do you think the Hereford breed would be better off now if we'd stuck to breeding cattle like his, or going to the gutless wonders of the eighties? THERE ARE A FEW BREEDERS WHO HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THE EXTREMES, and they are where I'm trying to go for answers and a foundation for the future.

I don't know enough about the history of Herefords to answer your question. Maybe you can teach me what you know. One problem I have in studying Hereford history, is why can't I find certain dams and sires of all animals registered like Mossy Plato 26's dam? Surely Trask knew the dam. Was the dam registered?
Was the dam a Simmental? Was the dam and Angus Hereford cross? Tell me why Trask knew the dam of 26 and not us. Also, if I search for registration numbers, why are some registration numbers missing? For example, here is registration #1 with no dam or sire listed:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 5&9=5C5E59

...and here is registration #20 which is Sir Thomas:

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 6&9=5C5D51

...where is #2 through #19? Where is #21 and higher? Why are there gaps? Why is the AHA hiding this information by not allowing us to query with more control? Are they doing this intentionally?

If you knew more about the history of the breed then you probably wouldn't have asked those questions.... :roll:

Now is as good time as any to start reading up, this forum can't do your research for you. How can you plan your future if you know nothing about your history?

 

[HerefordSire]

If you knew more about the history of the breed then you probably wouldn't have asked those questions.... :roll:

Now is as good time as any to start reading up, this forum can't do your research for you. How can you plan your future if you know nothing about your history?

I know allot more about the history of Herefords than I lead one to believe. My middle name is research
(Bid Research Buckler :mrgreen: ). I research more than any other task. Research is not the issue. The issue is properly interpreting the research. What is opinion and what is fact? What is a lie and what is the truth? I usually do not succumb to peer pressure as you well know. I need to know and I am a tough customer. I don't like the yellows of yesteryear like many breeders do and I don't like horns like many breeders do. Take "Giant" for example. My understanding was Mr. Gammon classified him as the best of the worst of the orginal polled mutants. However, he had at least one son jump his lousiness (prepotent) and became a better bull than he was, and this trend continued up to this day. But...when one searches for "THE" first polled Giant, he can't be found? Why can't the first polled Giant be found? Did he exist? If so, where is he. Please show me the foundation of polled Herefords, then maybe we can go from there.

 

[RD-Sam]

If you are saying a polled Hereford is the result of a cross breeding, it could be as simple as a DNA sample and compare the two. Does the polled DNA show blood from another breed? I don't like gaps either, that usually means somebody is covering something up.

 

[HerefordSire]

If you are saying a polled Hereford is the result of a cross breeding, it could be as simple as a DNA sample and compare the two. Does the polled DNA show blood from another breed? I don't like gaps either, that usually means somebody is covering something up.

History that I have read says Mr. Gammon located mutant polled Hereford cattle whose parents were horned. Many breeders take this as the truth. If it is the truth, why is he not in the AHA registry? Maybe I cannot find him. Why can't I find him?

 

[Herefords.US]

The simple answer is that the AHA online database isn't complete back to the associations' beginnings.

Why? Ask someone at the AHA!

George

 

[RD-Sam]

If you are saying a polled Hereford is the result of a cross breeding, it could be as simple as a DNA sample and compare the two. Does the polled DNA show blood from another breed? I don't like gaps either, that usually means somebody is covering something up.

History that I have read says Mr. Gammon located mutant polled Hereford cattle whose parents were horned. Many breeders take this as the truth. If it is the truth, why is he not in the AHA registry? Maybe I cannot find him. Why can't I find him?

What does the DNA show on a polled Hereford, it will be accurate?

 

[KNERSIE]

I know allot more about the history of Herefords than I lead one to believe.

Could have fooled me.

My middle name is research
(Bid Research Buckler ). I research more than any other task. Research is not the issue. The issue is properly interpreting the research.

But do you understand what you've researched, and if you do why don't it seem to sink in? I think you lack the basic knowledge needed to interpret and understand the information you aquire through your research, and with that this forum can't help you.

However, he had at least one son jump his lousiness (prepotent)

Here's another research project for you.... research the meaning of the word "prepotent" in a breeding context. I don't think you quite grasp it yet.

 

[HerefordSire]

Maybe I will start a new breed book for Polled Herefords crossed with percentages of Zebu and Angus. However, to grow the composite breed to reach large populations of breeding stock through breeders, I am going to remove several thousand entries (or more), especially many noteworthy founding or original animals. Just to make it interesting, I could import some stock as the pedigree data cannot be traced. This should allow for the breed to thrive. There will be plenty of breeders to breed these foraging and temperate hardy animals.

 

[RD-Sam]

I know allot more about the history of Herefords than I lead one to believe.

Could have fooled me.

My middle name is research
(Bid Research Buckler ). I research more than any other task. Research is not the issue. The issue is properly interpreting the research.

But do you understand what you've researched, and if you do why don't it seem to sink in? I think you lack the basic knowledge needed to interpret and understand the information you aquire through your research, and with that this forum can't help you.

However, he had at least one son jump his lousiness (prepotent)

Here's another research project for you.... research the meaning of the word "prepotent" in a breeding context. I don't think you quite grasp it yet.

Very powerful; superior in force, influence, or authority; predominant; Characterized by prepotency
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prepotent

prepotency - predominance: the state of being predominant over others
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

prepotency - The ability to consistently pass on character and type to the progeny.
www.equisearch.com/advice/glossary/glossaryP/

Lines in question pass on their good traits; lines that can greatly improve a breeding program
www.persian-cats.com/glossary.shtml

prepotency - The ability of a horse to pass on greater hereditary qualities, or characteristics.
harness-trotting-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/more_standardbred_horse_terms

prepotency - The ability of an individual to produce progeny whose performance is especially like its own and/or is especially uniform.
www.alpacas.com/AlpacaLibrary/GlossaryPQ.aspx

 

[KNERSIE]

I know allot more about the history of Herefords than I lead one to believe.

Could have fooled me.

My middle name is research
(Bid Research Buckler ). I research more than any other task. Research is not the issue. The issue is properly interpreting the research.

But do you understand what you've researched, and if you do why don't it seem to sink in? I think you lack the basic knowledge needed to interpret and understand the information you aquire through your research, and with that this forum can't help you.

However, he had at least one son jump his lousiness (prepotent)

Here's another research project for you.... research the meaning of the word "prepotent" in a breeding context. I don't think you quite grasp it yet.

Very powerful; superior in force, influence, or authority; predominant; Characterized by prepotency
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prepotent

prepotency - predominance: the state of being predominant over others
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

prepotency - The ability to consistently pass on character and type to the progeny.
http://www.equisearch.com/advice/glossary/glossaryP/

Lines in question pass on their good traits; lines that can greatly improve a breeding program
http://www.persian-cats.com/glossary.shtml

prepotency - The ability of a horse to pass on greater hereditary qualities, or characteristics.
harness-trotting-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/more_standardbred_horse_terms

prepotency - The ability of an individual to produce progeny whose performance is especially like its own and/or is especially uniform.
http://www.alpacas.com/AlpacaLibrary/GlossaryPQ.aspx

And so the plot thickens.... :idea:

 

[Herefords.US]

The simple answer is that the AHA online database isn't complete back to the associations' beginnings.

Why? Ask someone at the AHA!

George

Clarification:

It is my understanding that the online database was put into place primarily for accessing and calculating EPDs, and not for pedigree research. Since these animals many generations back have no performance records to base EPDs on, there was originally no reason to include them in the database.

However, I've been told that the actual herdbook records at the AHA are complete and extended pedigrees can be obtained on any registered Hereford (for a price) from the association. In some cases these might have to be looked up and entered by hand.

Perhaps we could get Obama to include completing the AHA online database in the new economic stimulus package and fund the hiring of some currently unemployed data processors to fill in all the holes, so those of us who like to do pedigree research could do it from our computers. :lol:

George

 

[HerefordSire]

100% bred Trask bull shown on Pharo's web site.

BTCC Teddy Bear M157
http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... 6&9=535C5A


http://www.pharocattle.com/hereford.htm

 

[RD-Sam]

The simple answer is that the AHA online database isn't complete back to the associations' beginnings.

Why? Ask someone at the AHA!

George

Clarification:

It is my understanding that the online database was put into place primarily for accessing and calculating EPDs, and not for pedigree research. Since these animals many generations back have no performance records to base EPDs on, there was originally no reason to include them in the database.

However, I've been told that the actual herdbook records at the AHA are complete and extended pedigrees can be obtained on any registered Hereford (for a price) from the association. In some cases these might have to be looked up and entered by hand.

Perhaps we could get Obama to include completing the AHA online database in the new economic stimulus package and fund the hiring of some currently unemployed data processors to fill in all the holes, so those of us who like to do pedigree research could do it from our computers. :lol:

George

No doubt the money would be better spent than giving it to corps so they can get their bonuses and have luxurious meetings and spa treatments. :nod:

 

[HerefordSire]

The simple answer is that the AHA online database isn't complete back to the associations' beginnings.

Why? Ask someone at the AHA!

George

Clarification:

It is my understanding that the online database was put into place primarily for accessing and calculating EPDs, and not for pedigree research. Since these animals many generations back have no performance records to base EPDs on, there was originally no reason to include them in the database.

However, I've been told that the actual herdbook records at the AHA are complete and extended pedigrees can be obtained on any registered Hereford (for a price) from the association. In some cases these might have to be looked up and entered by hand.

Perhaps we could get Obama to include completing the AHA online database in the new economic stimulus package and fund the hiring of some currently unemployed data
processors to fill in all the holes, so those of us who like to do pedigree research could do it from our computers. :lol:

George

No doubt the money would be better spent than giving it to corps so they can get their bonuses and have luxurious meetings and spa treatments. :nod:

If the data was/is really available, one would think that when an animal's record was orginally entered to the AHA database, they could have added the known registered sire and registered dam while they were at it, or much more important, the registered individual own actual name as in the orginal polled Hereford bull "Giant". How much more editing would it have been to look at the records and add the known data even if the record did not have total reporting herd data to add?

 

[HerefordSire]

And so the plot thickens.... :idea:

I wish I were half as smart as RD-Sam. We are not the same person.