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Traditional Herefords

andybob

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A group of dedicated people preserved the old style traditional Herefords there are now a reasonably large number that can all be traced back to the origional stud book without any other breed influence. Other than the local niche markets presently supplied by these breeders, what other benefit do you see in these preservation schemes? would anyone feel they could use some of these lines to bring back a desired characteristic possibly lost in thr larger framed modern Hereford?
http://www.herefordcattle.org/index.php
 

KNERSIE

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The traditional herefords aren't that small!

I think its brilliant that they preserve the breed in its purest form, pity they are quite particular whom they will sell semen to. Ever been to the HQ in 1 Offa Street? Llandinabo is a awesome herd to visit if you have the opportunity, they'll arrange visits like that through the Offa Street office and will bend over backwards to be as hospital and accomodating as possible.
 

HerefordSire

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andybob":1lg26rju said:
A group of dedicated people preserved the old style traditional Herefords there are now a reasonably large number that can all be traced back to the origional stud book without any other breed influence. Other than the local niche markets presently supplied by these breeders, what other benefit do you see in these preservation schemes? would anyone feel they could use some of these lines to bring back a desired characteristic possibly lost in thr larger framed modern Hereford?
http://www.herefordcattle.org/index.php

I would be interested in some of the larger original studs. What are the fees to membership? What do AI certificates cost for example?
 

rocket2222

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I looked through their semen sales catalog, I saw a few Remitall bulls, Online was one of them :shock: :) Feltons 517, some bulls from 80's big frame era, not too far back in the pedigree. A bull with a minus 4kg milk epv that was getting some use. Not very traditional. There are a lot of folks that think the old days were better. I believe the old days are best left in the history books, we study those books so that we don't make the same mistakes again, and continually improve, or you can go back and rewrite the same history again and again, and end up going nowhere.
 

HerefordSire

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rocket2222":1hht34ve said:
I looked through their semen sales catalog, I saw a few Remitall bulls, Online was one of them :shock: :) Feltons 517, some bulls from 80's big frame era, not too far back in the pedigree. A bull with a minus 4kg milk epv that was getting some use. Not very traditional. There are a lot of folks that think the old days were better. I believe the old days are best left in the history books, we study those books so that we don't make the same mistakes again, and continually improve, or you can go back and rewrite the same history again and again, and end up going nowhere.

That was probably "Anxiety the 4th Online"
 

smnherf

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andybob":qz991aew said:
A group of dedicated people preserved the old style traditional Herefords there are now a reasonably large number that can all be traced back to the origional stud book without any other breed influence. Other than the local niche markets presently supplied by these breeders, what other benefit do you see in these preservation schemes? would anyone feel they could use some of these lines to bring back a desired characteristic possibly lost in thr larger framed modern Hereford?
http://www.herefordcattle.org/index.php


As far as I know, all herefords registered in the AHA do not have any other breed inluence as the Hereford book has not been opened to other breeds, knowingly.

I don't have a problem with a group of people organizing together to promote a particular line or lines of cattle. It is done all the time. But this may be a marketing ploy to promote cattle with certain pedigrees.
Just because these lines trace back to the original stud book doesn't make them better. It is the breeders of the cattle and their knowledge of cattle breeding and their selection criteria that may or may not make them better, but pedigree alone won't cut it for me. It is no different than selecting simply for EPDs.

I would have an interest in using them, but first convince me that they are a superior product or at least contribute positively in my breeding goals. I for one don't want to go back to the horned herefords that I grew up with. Just because they are old pedigrees doesn,t make them superior. I am quite familiar with some of the attributes that were lost during the show and frame craze and true, some very good and usefull cattle went by the wasyside, but you need to be pretty carefull in which old bull you use.

Brian
 

novatech

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I believe these old bulls are very important to the Hereford industry. If one takes the time and is willing to put out the effort, many traits can be traced back to these original sires. Take for instance meat tenderness or quality. Back then there were no EPD's or DNA test"s. All they had was carcass evaluation. Many times that was not available. So what one has to do is find more current animals and trace there pedigree back to one of these originals. By looking for the common denominator for these qualities one can determine which bulls were more likely to be responsible for these traits. The more times you find animals in the pedigree tracing back to a certain sire the more likelihood that original is responsible for the trait. The same may be said for bad traits. For instance bad udders or bad temperament. A lot of information is only available by talking to old timers.
This has resulted in me being able to increase the rating I get from the GeneStar tests . And yes I know that only tells me what potential they have.
 

andybob

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KNERSIE":3m5my6um said:
Read through this website first before having an oinion on them, the link andybob posted was of the british hereford breeders association and not the traditional hereford breeders club.

The goal is strictly conservation of the original bloodlines.

http://www.traditionalherefords.org/traditional.html

Thank you KNERSIE,I don't know how I managed to post the wrong link, brain frozen probably :roll:
We were having a discussion on traditional or "rare breeds" at our annual veterinary dinner, and thought it would make for an interesting discussion here.
 

HerefordSire

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Something doesn't feel right to me. Good idea though. Being ignored when asking an honest question is one thing and posting an incorrect link in another, both of which are forgiveable and not a big deal, but a first impression is one of the more important things I look for in business relations. However, I would favor a small group like what has been presented over the AHA. Maybe there is an invisible virus (only polo members allowed) in Hereford organizations which makes them want to deter growth?
 

andybob

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Sorry Herefordsire, I hadn't realised the question was directed specificaly at me, I posted the subject to stimulate some discussion as much for my own interest as anything else, I can find out about the origional studs, membership fees etc in the new year for you, I have never had any Herefords as I lived in a very challanging environment in Zimbabwe, I often post on other breeds to get information and opinions from board members. I would not like to give Hereford breeders an elitist image when I am not even a breeder myself.
 

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":2k4r4uq2 said:
Something doesn't feel right to me. Good idea though. Being ignored when asking an honest question is one thing and posting an incorrect link in another, both of which are forgiveable and not a big deal, but a first impression is one of the more important things I look for in business relations. However, I would favor a small group like what has been presented over the AHA. Maybe there is an invisible virus (only polo members allowed) in Hereford organizations which makes them want to deter growth?

Their contact information is freely available, I have made contact with them in the past out of curiosity and got more than enough info in a very friendly manner. They have arranged visits to the various farms for me free of charge and throughly enjoy overseas visitors or anyone showing an interest in the breed.

Don't be oversensitive, whether it feels right to you or not is hardly important as its a group of breeders in the UK that preserves the breed in its purest form with preservation of lines tracing directly back to those animals in the original herdbook in 1846. Its not a business deal or even a business opportunity, its simply heritage and history and they only want to protect the semen available as its a very small genepool and don't want to see it wasted.

Now maybe a very good time for you to make contact with them and LEARN about the history and the traditional qualities of the breed. That knowledge may very well shape your train of thought in your future breeding ventures and can ultimately be the determining factor between failure and success.
 

greenwillowhereford II

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I found it very interesting, and appreciate what they are doing. It may not be for everybody, but I think there is a place for them. I don't think you can really compare them to the old U.S. bulls because as I understand it, the belt buckle height craze didn't take over England, thus you could tie back to the original beef quality and feed efficiency without worrying about dwarfism etc. Would someone care to translate the kilograms to pounds for us dumber folks so we can see just what type of growth they are talking about?(To understand this question, you must first read their website.)
 

greenwillowhereford II

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KNERSIE":234zo4x7 said:
Would someone care to translate the kilograms to pounds for us

1kg = 2.204 lbs

The claim on the website is that they are able to reach a live harvest weight of 500-550 kilograms at 15-24 months on forage (if I understand it correctly) without feed supplement. That is 1,100-1,210 pounds or a tad more. I daresay that there are not a large number of cattle of any breed that can finish on forage without feed any heavier or as heavy at that age.

Knersie, do you know if straight English Hereford genetics have tended to milk heavier through the last century as opposed to U.S. Herfs? The pics I've seen of these traditional Herefords look quite good, and the size is not that far off the height of the typical moderate framed cow.
 

HerefordSire

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andybob":qzx9yve2 said:
Sorry Herefordsire, I hadn't realised the question was directed specificaly at me, I posted the subject to stimulate some discussion as much for my own interest as anything else, I can find out about the origional studs, membership fees etc in the new year for you, I have never had any Herefords as I lived in a very challanging environment in Zimbabwe, I often post on other breeds to get information and opinions from board members. I would not like to give Hereford breeders an elitist image when I am not even a breeder myself.

TY for posting the information andybob. There was no harm done. I believe I misinterpreted your orginal post. Forgive me. I am curious why you posted Hereford information when you are not a breeder of Herefords. Are you considering becoming a breeder? Are you currently a vet?
 

andybob

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HerefordSire":2elzk3qf said:
andybob":2elzk3qf said:
TY for posting the information andybob. There was no harm done. I believe I misinterpreted your orginal post. Forgive me. I am curious why you posted Hereford information when you are not a breeder of Herefords. Are you considering becoming a breeder? Are you currently a vet?

If I see an article of interest elsewhere I will post it over here for anyone who might be interested or possibly benefit from the information, I have on occasion posted Hereford articles as there are quite a few breeders here. I had to sell my cattle when I left the USA last year, and am looking at a few options as far as breed is concerned, I saw a good herd of traditional North Devons in November, the breeder has kept out the lines with Salers influence, and has a good adapted grass fed herd which winters outside. I will be looking at a Sussex herd next month kept on similar lines, and have the oppertunity to see a herd of traditional Herefords as well. My MIL ran a more traditional type hereford bull on their Afrikana cows in Namibia, which I liked the look of, when she went over to Tuli to replace the Afrikana, the cross was even more impressive in my opinion, unfortunatly the breeder died and the family sold up, so MIL went over to Red Angus as they did not want the larger framed Hereford. So I do have a longstanding interest in that type of Hereford.
The veterinary practice that services the farms for the company held an end of year party for their clients, all farm managers were invited,I am unfortunatly not a vet, just a manager (outdoor pigs), so I need easy keepers for my cattle interest, to fit into my busy schedule.
 

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