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Torture? Get real!

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Craig-TX

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I’m sick and tired of all this talk about torture and I’m disappointed in Bush for apologizing. Yeah, we humiliated some people over there and we intimidated some people. That is a country mile away from torturing people.

All the media are talking about is apology, apology, apology. For crying out loud it takes more endurance and physical bravery to get in the Aggie Corps than to be an Iraqi prisoner of the US. Those thugs are in that prison for a reason. If we have to rough them up a little or hurt their feelings to get them to behave or talk, fine by me.

I heard one of the “victims” interviewed today and all he could do was talk about his shame and being stripped of his honor. That guy has no shame or he wouldn’t have been a henchman in the former regime. The same goes for honor.

I’m not trying to condone or justify any form of true torture, at least for the run of the mill Iraqi inmate. But I’m getting ready to puke if we keep wringing our hands and calling for resignations and apologies over what would only pass for college hazing here. So far I haven’t seen any pictures of real torture. Not by the US.

Iraqis know what real torture is. They know the difference. We’re so soft over here that we don’t. We think it’s torture if prisons don’t have air conditioning, TV and libraries. Or if somebody gets uncomfortable or has their dignity hurt. We think sensitivity training is the way to win their hearts and minds. If the entire Arab nation gets their feelings hurt, that's their problem. The way they treat their women and their own people, and they have the gall to whine about being put on a dog leash and led around naked by a female? What a crock. They're just scared to death of an empowered woman.

Does anybody honestly think an apology would make them like us? Would us begging for forgiveness make it all better?

OK, I’ll hop off the soapbox. Let the liberal wailing begin.

Craig-TX
 

la4angus

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So True, Craig.

I think your words echo a lot of our thoughts.
We were talking about the very same thing today and everyone agreed to the same thing that you just posted.
Those guys captured, beat , mutilated and burned 4 Americans whils a crowd was there laughing and cheering the SOB's on and we heard no apology from the Iraqis or any hint of an apology. :( :( :( :(
:( :( :( :( :(
 
A

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Hell, Craig, you know there won't be any liberal wailing over your post. All the ones like Oreo are probably glued to CNN hoping to see more of the pretty pictures. He might even like the naked on a leash role. Less the female, of course.
 

SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE

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This is being done on purpose to enrage the muslim nations and provoke an attack. Then we will have the excuse to kill all of them, starting with Iraq,probably using tactical nuclear weapons,because that is what it would take to win. History is full of examples of nations with superior technology provoking an attack and then being able to inflict tons of more casualties than they suffer in order to pacify or subdue a region. :x :(
 

greenpasture78

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Craig,
For once, I agree with you! I wouldn't care less if they were torture to death! I have seen worst case scenerio than that! Remember Rwanda? all those dead bodies all spewed out everywhere tortured and maimed beheaded, etc?The only flaw I see is the timing of the abuse case...it looks like something that the Bush administration has planned to boost Bush's ratings. I wish Bush would stop acting like a wimp.. Doesn't show any guts as a President does he? A good President is a strong President but this creep Bush acts all sympathietic and all because its election year...gonna get those women voters... What a wimp. If I was president, I would had said oh well.....they were abused in lot worst cases than we had done to them....besides they torture their own wife and kids constantly and it isn't fair for us to torture them?
Oh I agree about our own prison system. Recently, in Oregon they are installing flat screen TVs for the prisons! Geez.....some of those prisons are better than our own home! Hot meals, warm bed, big screen TV, tennis court, maybe even a golf course..... Oh well.....
Craig-TX":5sbt4fgn said:
I’m sick and tired of all this talk about torture and I’m disappointed in Bush for apologizing. Yeah, we humiliated some people over there and we intimidated some people. That is a country mile away from torturing people.

All the media are talking about is apology, apology, apology. For crying out loud it takes more endurance and physical bravery to get in the Aggie Corps than to be an Iraqi prisoner of the US. Those thugs are in that prison for a reason. If we have to rough them up a little or hurt their feelings to get them to behave or talk, fine by me.

I heard one of the “victims” interviewed today and all he could do was talk about his shame and being stripped of his honor. That guy has no shame or he wouldn’t have been a henchman in the former regime. The same goes for honor.

I’m not trying to condone or justify any form of true torture, at least for the run of the mill Iraqi inmate. But I’m getting ready to puke if we keep wringing our hands and calling for resignations and apologies over what would only pass for college hazing here. So far I haven’t seen any pictures of real torture. Not by the US.

Iraqis know what real torture is. They know the difference. We’re so soft over here that we don’t. We think it’s torture if prisons don’t have air conditioning, TV and libraries. Or if somebody gets uncomfortable or has their dignity hurt. We think sensitivity training is the way to win their hearts and minds. If the entire Arab nation gets their feelings hurt, that's their problem. The way they treat their women and their own people, and they have the gall to whine about being put on a dog leash and led around naked by a female? What a crock. They're just scared to death of an empowered woman.

Does anybody honestly think an apology would make them like us? Would us begging for forgiveness make it all better?

OK, I’ll hop off the soapbox. Let the liberal wailing begin.

Craig-TX
 

D.R. Cattle

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This is a simple case of George W stepping up to the plate and accepting responsibility instead of a bunch of finger pointing and passing liability to someone else. This is what REAL leaders do.
 

dun

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I haven't heard it referred to as torture, just as abuse. I realize that we expect superhuman(almost) behaviour from our soldiers and police for that matter. We expect them to put aside their emotions and deal with difficult situations without regard to what has happend in the past. But degradation or physical contact is still nothing to be condoned. I've alwasy maintaned that I wouldn't make a cop because rapists, wife beaters, child molesters, doope dealers, etc. wouldn't make it to jail in one piece. So I can understand why this stuff happens, but no matter the provocation, it still isn't right.
And I agree, W did exactly would should have been done as the commander and chief and as an American.

dun
 

skip

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I totally agree with Dun, there is no excuse for those that participated in the abuse or condoned it. It's just not right. I'm definitely no liberal but so far, I think President Bush is dealing with this problem correctly. I could care less if anybody apologizes for anything. I don't like the idea that something like this was not communicated to the President back in early 2004 where he wasn't blindsided and those liberals can have a field day taking their potshots. As if the man doesn't have enough things to deal with these days. Donald Rumsfeld has done a heck of a job as Defense Secretary and the thought of resigning is absolutely rediculous.
 
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Craig-TX

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I am very pro-Bush for exactly the reasons you and Dun state. Apologizing to a bunch of radical Islamists is un-Bush. That’s what disappoints me. Actually having some values and beliefs and sticking with them and letting them guide you is what makes a person real. Trying to make everybody like you is lame and a recipe for failure.

As far as the torture goes, I notice in today’s news that ‘abuse’ is being used more than ‘torture’ which has been the media’s word of choice since the story broke. Especially the broadcast media. And I call BS on the torture accusation. These are some mean sorry folks and if rough treatment is all they understand we should be ready to dispense it. They will whip our ears off if we’re not. We can win this war if we have the will and resolve. If we don’t, we can’t.

Amazing how the liberals always seem to side up with the enemy. Neither are actually concerned with decency. Both use the pretext of decency to attack conservative American principals along with those who believe in them and try to put them into practice. It’s the same old guilt-trip for actually having the nads to take a stand and not back down at the first sign of somebody being offended.

This is a holy war as far as the Islamists and terrorists are concerned. They hate us and want to wipe us out because we are a free and ‘Christian’ nation. I’m not apologizing for being either of the above. I’m proud of both. I might be too old to re-up but I’ll still defend them, and our right to practice them, to the end. Faith and freedom are the most valuable things we have.

Craig-TX
 
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Craig-TX

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D.R. Cattle":3rlgz9ca said:
He wasn't apologizing to the radicals. He was apologizing to the decent Iraqi citizens.

No, he addressed Arabs in general via interviews on two Arab television channels that broadcast across the entire middle east. He danced all around apologizing to all of them. Later he offered an actual apology to the King of Jordon.

We’re still waiting on apologies from Bin Laden, Sodamn Insane, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, et al, for true atrocities.

Craig-TX
 

Jake

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Sorry I kind of missed the heart of the thread but I think it's time for the diaper dopers to quit their complaining about so many things. I heard it a lot today at school about how horrible it is that we do these things. I no way would condone this behavior but nobody will be perfect in every aspect. Bush appologized to the Arabs and is still trying to work at getting their trust in us. I've talked to some soliers that fought over their and they all say that what we've done is the best thing that ever happened to those people, it was about 10 times worse than the media let us all believe here on the homefront. Nuff said
Jake
 

TxCoUnTrYbOy

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maybe this 'torture' is for the better. heres a little known fact from before world war 1

just before WW1, General Pershing of the US Army was stationed in the Philippines, along with many troops. there were a lot of muslim terrorist attacks there for years. this general captured 50 of the terrorists that were causing trouble. he ordered his troops to execute every one of them. before they killed them, they got a couple pigs and slaughtered them in front of the terrorists. in case you didnt know pigs are sacred or sumthin in the muslim religion. they soaked bullets in the pigs blood and shot 49 of the prisoners, killing them. they let the last one go free. after that there was NOT ONE muslim terrorist attack anywhere in the world for over 50 years.
 

la4angus

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TxCoUnTrYbOy":m27zrfiz said:
maybe this 'torture' is for the better. heres a little known fact from before world war 1

just before WW1, General Pershing of the US Army was stationed in the Philippines, along with many troops. there were a lot of muslim terrorist attacks there for years. this general captured 50 of the terrorists that were causing trouble. he ordered his troops to execute every one of them. before they killed them, they got a couple pigs and slaughtered them in front of the terrorists. in case you didnt know pigs are sacred or sumthin in the muslim religion. they soaked bullets in the pigs blood and shot 49 of the prisoners, killing them. they let the last one go free. after that there was NOT ONE muslim terrorist attack anywhere in the world for over 50 years.

If anyyone has Donald Rumsfelds physical or eMail address, this piece should be sent to him.
It might give him an idea.!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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Craig-TX

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TxCoUnTrYbOy":18acj4ew said:
maybe this 'torture' is for the better. heres a little known fact from before world war 1

just before WW1, General Pershing of the US Army was stationed in the Philippines, along with many troops. there were a lot of muslim terrorist attacks there for years. this general captured 50 of the terrorists that were causing trouble. he ordered his troops to execute every one of them. before they killed them, they got a couple pigs and slaughtered them in front of the terrorists. in case you didnt know pigs are sacred or sumthin in the muslim religion. they soaked bullets in the pigs blood and shot 49 of the prisoners, killing them. they let the last one go free. after that there was NOT ONE muslim terrorist attack anywhere in the world for over 50 years.

Wait a minute, that can’t be right. Before the executions there had to be a multinational unilateral tribunal set up and a long drawn out trial with foreign representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross along with Muslim chaplains all over the place, not to mention whinny reporters everywhere. Plus a bunch of protesters.

Oh, pardon me. You meant General Blackjack Pershing. Yeah, he knew how to fight.

Craig-TX
 

PATB

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The USA signed on to follow the Geneva Convention on Humane treatment of prisoners of war. If you want our troops treatly humanely you must treat the enemy troops humanely. How mad did you get when you saw the mistreatment of amercians on TV? Those that are responsible for this should be punished for the crimes. I cannot condone the mistreatment of prisoners of war of any nation. It is drilled into every service member what their responsiblity is for treatment of POW's and the punishment for not doing so. How would you feel if that was your son, daughter, wife, husband, relative, neighbor or member of your town you seen pictures of being abused?
 

WORANCH

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PATB":22uwyrzc said:
The USA signed on to follow the Geneva Convention on Humane treatment of prisoners of war. If you want our troops treatly humanely you must treat the enemy troops humanely. How mad did you get when you saw the mistreatment of amercians on TV? Those that are responsible for this should be punished for the crimes. I cannot condone the mistreatment of prisoners of war of any nation. It is drilled into every service member what their responsiblity is for treatment of POW's and the punishment for not doing so. How would you feel if that was your son, daughter, wife, husband, relative, neighbor or member of your town you seen pictures of being abused?


the USA is about the only country that tries to follow the geneva conventon ...... and now i heard that we are going to shell out our tax dollars to the prisoners ....have to buy them off...... :x :x
 

sam

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what so many people have forgotten is that we are in a war in Iraq, trying to stomp out terrorism. Many people have forgotten what happened on Sep. 11. That was an act of war committed by terrorist. The Iraqi prisoners are associates of these terrorists. To them it is a Holy Jihad. They are suppose to fight to the death for their cause, but as you can see they surrendered instead, and that is why they are a captive. In Iraq, a woman is treated worse than a dog, its the same for all of the middle east countries, a woman has no rights. Can you imagine the thoughts going through their heads seeing an American soldier, FEMALE, in complete control of the Iraqi prisoners. It is very degrading for these captive Iraqi's to have a woman controlling them. Now i presume that none of you have ever attemted to interrogate a prisoner, especially a prisoner who if he got the opportunity, would slit your throat, gouge your eyes out, do whatever possible to maim or kill you. Everyone of you have read stories where prison inmates and even inmates in county jails are always making home made weapons. By keeping these prisoners naked when they are dealing with them, it keeps the prisoners from hiding home made weapons on their person. For interrogation purposes, having the interrogated person naked is a custom which has been used for close to a century, not only the United States, but virtually every country in the world. Now I don't know how many of you have ever served in the military, but a low ranking soldier can't go to the bath room without getting permission from a higher ranking soldier or officer. The media, nor anyone else needs to lay the blame on any soldier for following orders, especially when they are fighting a war and defending our country and honor. All of the Americans who died in the World Trade Center, all of the Americans who died when there hijacked plane crashed into the Pentagon and World Trade Center, none of them had the chance or opportunity to surrender. The American passenders on the hijacked plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, they fought the first battle in this war, because they refused to let a handful of terrorists murder anymore innocent Americans on U.S. soil. Those brave American citizens fought the first battle, and George W. took up the fight by taking it to the terrorist on their home turf in the middle east. And if by having to strip the clothes off an Iraqi, for our soldiers protection, and interrogating him can gain one piece of information which later can save one American life, then the interrogation was a success. Guess who interrogates these prisoners? I'm putting my money on Military Intelligence and the C.I.A. Why? because they are trained in interrogation procedures and they are trained how to handle these kind of people. Army reservist aren't . It would have been much easier for our soldiers to have just shot them in the heat of battle, but they captured the Iraqis. Now we are trying to extract intelligence information from them, i guess our media does not understand this, but i guess also our liberal media would much rather have a liberal president in the white house also. Liberals are kind of like fleas on a dog, they all seem to flock together.
 
A

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I agree with most of what is being said here...but don't give Rummy so much credit. While I like 90% of how he has done things and I love his method of handling (in Kerry's words) 'the most crooked bunch of guys I've ever seen" the press media. He did throw the possibilty of an offer of monetary compensation to these "abused" iraqies. In my eyes that had better never happen, we need to take care of our own first.

I will vote for Bush again, and he also I think has done a pretty good job, but, his border policy sucks, because of politics, he doesn't want to lose the mexican-american vote. Also, while I believe in the cause in Iraq we didn't have a very strong long term plan...go get Sadam then what? Quit pussy footing around if our troops get shot at from a temple or other holy site, then level it.

Finally on the abuse issue... who was dumb enough to take pictures? I think military intelligence was behind all of it and I support thier action completely, I'm sure we got some good intelligence from this "abuse". My question on this is who took the pictures and why were they leaked?

America is paying a large price for Iraqs freedom, I don't want to hear crying because someone stomped on a bug!

My opinion
Alan
 
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