Too much phosphorous?

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gertman

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If you have an excessive amount of phosphorous in the soil can other plant nutrients be tied up and not available to the plant? For instance if you have spread chicken litter on pastures for years and years.
 

novatech

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I think it has problems as to the relationship with zinc. Other that that it is more of an environmental problem with run off.
I would have a soil test done.
If you plant clover you would probably acquire all the N you would need for upcoming warm season pastures.
Chicken manure = 55 to 75 pounds P per ton
 

Angus Cowman

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gertman":10lpyq16 said:
If you have an excessive amount of phosphorous in the soil can other plant nutrients be tied up and not available to the plant? For instance if you have spread chicken litter on pastures for years and years.
have been told that when the phosphorus gets excessive to just start putting on straght N for a few yrs
don't no if that is true or not but that is what the guy I get turkey litter from says to do and
groundwater contamination is the biggest problem
 

terra8186

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I don't know how much testing you have done or what your problem is, but chicken manure is acidic. Maybe you just need lime.
 

BeefmasterB

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High phosphorous content will unlikely harm your plant growth but runoff can be a problem to any water sources. There really isn't practical method of neutralizing it. Best practice now is to use fertilizers without phosphorus until current levels go down. If you have clay soil it should hold runoff down a bit as will having a cover crop.
 

Angus Cowman

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terra8186":156lc1os said:
I don't know how much testing you have done or what your problem is, but chicken manure is acidic. Maybe you just need lime.
I have been using litter for the last few yrs and it has maintained the ph in the soil just with the litter so I haven't had to put any lime on

i do know that anytime you use manure as a fert. the phosphorous will build up in the soil that is why several dairies that used their manure on their fields will have to hold off for a few yrs and just put on straght Nitrogen to get the phosphorous levels down
 

Jogeephus

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I have been told by soils people that repeated applications of chicken litter can mess you up but it is my understanding it is due to the heavy buildup of minor elements that can disrupt things. I don't know where this threshold is but I was instructed to always alternate litter with conventional. That said, I know a guy that dumped all his litter in a small field behind his houses. This was done for years and he has some of the prettiest grass I've ever seen. If this is a problem I sure wish I had it.
 

Angus Cowman

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Jogeephus":3dloijc5 said:
I have been told by soils people that repeated applications of chicken litter can mess you up but it is my understanding it is due to the heavy buildup of minor elements that can disrupt things. I don't know where this threshold is but I was instructed to always alternate litter with conventional. That said, I know a guy that dumped all his litter in a small field behind his houses. This was done for years and he has some of the prettiest grass I've ever seen. If this is a problem I sure wish I had it.
after I get the pasture up to where they need to be I either back off on the amount of litter or I will alternate yrs of application 3yrs on 1yr off and on the off yr I only apply N to those fields the main thing with any fertilization process is taking soil test and going by them or else you are pissing your money away, I take my test 6 months after I fertilize or lime

I plant turnips where I pile my litter before applying it this yr I had turnips bigger than cantelopes and lots of them deer are real happy
 

BC

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Too much phosphorus can cause a tie up of some of the other nutrients. This and runoff potential are the problems with poultry litter used several years in a row.

If your phosphorus level is too high, consider planting legumes and then harvesting that for hay that can be fed in places where the phosphorus is low. Grazing or haying on the same piece of ground will just recycle the phosphorus.
 

novatech

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BC":21mfwwc9 said:
Too much phosphorus can cause a tie up of some of the other nutrients. This and runoff potential are the problems with poultry litter used several years in a row.

If your phosphorus level is too high, consider planting legumes and then harvesting that for hay that can be fed in places where the phosphorus is low. Grazing or haying on the same piece of ground will just recycle the phosphorus.
I could not find anything where it said that to much P would tie up anything but zinc. If you have a link I would appreciate it.

You might consider running stockers in the cool season with the clover. Pull them off and plant for hay for the warm season. Sell the hay. You may have to add a little N for the second and third cutting depending on how much protein you require.
Basically you need to sell the phosphorus off the place. Better yet figure out how to get it to me. I need to add about 60# per acre.
 

BeefmasterB

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novatech":118szixn said:
BC":118szixn said:
Too much phosphorus can cause a tie up of some of the other nutrients. This and runoff potential are the problems with poultry litter used several years in a row.

If your phosphorus level is too high, consider planting legumes and then harvesting that for hay that can be fed in places where the phosphorus is low. Grazing or haying on the same piece of ground will just recycle the phosphorus.

I could not find anything where it said that to much P would tie up anything but zinc. If you have a link I would appreciate it.

The information on this subject is kinda confusing. On this site it will tell you that "High concentrations of phosphorous can inhibit the uptake of nitrogen, as well as iron, zinc and copper, by the pecan tree." http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1304.htm
But yet, on another site I read where Phosphorus "facilitates the uptake of zinc". (was referring to fertilization as it impacted seeds).
 

dun

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BeefmasterB":2k3jfsz8 said:
The information on this subject is kinda confusing. On this site it will tell you that "High concentrations of phosphorous can inhibit the uptake of nitrogen, as well as iron, zinc and copper, by the pecan tree." http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubcd/B1304.htm
But yet, on another site I read where Phosphorus "facilitates the uptake of zinc". (was referring to fertilization as it impacted seeds).
I'm far from an expert on the complexities of the different compounds in soil. I know there is a relationship betwen some that when in the proper balance work together but when imbalanced work against each other. The phos. zinc deal may be one of those.
 

Dave

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Generally speaking too much phosphorous wont cause a problem with up take of other nutrients until it gets way out of balance. A couple year of chicken litter application isn't going to do that. Actually too much potassium is more likely to cause a problem for a cattleman first. And it is more likely to reach excessive levels for over application before phosphorous. Too much potassium will cause plants to up take potassium instead of calcium and/or magnesium. This will cause problems with grass tetany and milk fever. I have seen a number of cases of this. I have never seen a case where excessive phosphorous caused a problem.
The effect of chicken litter and the soil pH depend on several things. Manure from a layer farm will actually raise the pH slowly. This is do to the amount of calcium that they feed layers. Broiler manure will vary a lot depending on what they are using for bedding.
 

KNERSIE

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Dave":27qugw1o said:
Generally speaking too much phosphorous wont cause a problem with up take of other nutrients until it gets way out of balance. A couple year of chicken litter application isn't going to do that. Actually too much potassium is more likely to cause a problem for a cattleman first. And it is more likely to reach excessive levels for over application before phosphorous. Too much potassium will cause plants to up take potassium instead of calcium and/or magnesium. This will cause problems with grass tetany and milk fever. I have seen a number of cases of this. I have never seen a case where excessive phosphorous caused a problem.
The effect of chicken litter and the soil pH depend on several things. Manure from a layer farm will actually raise the pH slowly. This is do to the amount of calcium that they feed layers. Broiler manure will vary a lot depending on what they are using for bedding.

We've switched to concentrated chicken litter products and later to straight chicken litter in the orchards over the last few years. From all the researh I have seen and from both soil and leaf analysis the acidifying effect of chicken litter is considerably lower than that of conventional anorganic fertilisers. Our soil is typically quite low in Ca and P so the higher P levels in chicken litter is a bonus for me.

The balance between P, K and Ca is crucial in the accessibility of the three nutrients to the plant. Too low a Ca level and the plant can't use the K, too high Ca has very much the same effect. Too low P and the availability of K and Ca is hampered.

The small scale experiments I've done on pasture with chicken litter is very positive and much longer lasting than that of conventional fertiliser. Under my conditions it seems that you can't be tight when spreading CL, when it was applied generously the effect was outstanding, where it was applied miserly the effect was almost non-existent
 

KNERSIE

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gertman":1hmfo1xy said:
Knersie, what's a concentrated chicken litter product?

Its basically enriched composted CL in pellet form. You get various different compositions to meet certain needs in different types of soils. Works a treat as a little goes a long way, especially in orchards where you don't need to broadcast fertiliser and want to target the area under the irrigation microjet.
 

dun

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KNERSIE":12zn1q2i said:
gertman":12zn1q2i said:
Knersie, what's a concentrated chicken litter product?

Its basically enriched composted CL in pellet form. You get various different compositions to meet certain needs in different types of soils. Works a treat as a little goes a long way, especially in orchards where you don't need to broadcast fertiliser and want to target the area under the irrigation microjet.

Last year one of the local purveyors of poop was selling it. The analysis was 5-5-5, I wondered if the composting and pelleting cooked the N out of it
 

KNERSIE

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I used 7:7:7 for a few years and it actually really jumpstarted the growth so it definately had the required amount of N. For Eurepgap purposes we had it analised by an independent lab and the result was very close to what the label said. I used brandname Terramix, don't know if thats an international brand or not?

This year one of the poop purveyors tried to sell penguin poop pellets. You're supposed to use a single pellet per tree under the microjet and cover it with straw or soil. The rep couldn't produce any lab work in a timely fashion so I didn't buy any. It was quite pricey compare to even conventional fertiliser, which basically eliminated me from using it anyway, but I was willing to experiment if they would sell me a small sample.
 
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