TIGER STRIPE CATTLE

[aplusmnt]

I know people who have been raising cattle for 50 years that are truly ignornant of the bovine animal. On the other hand, I know several people who have "retired" early from a successful business and got into the cattle business because they enjoy it. "Hobby Farmers" you like to call them. You consider it an insult. Many of those guys have taken the willingness to learn, improvise, and be open to new ideals that made them successful in business and put it to work on the ranch. They ask a lot of questions and they learn about grass farming, they learn about breeds, they learn about EPDs, they learn about marketing. And some of them are doing very, very well.

Cows don't grow on data. But one day the data on your cows will make a difference in how you're paid for them. I'm not a major fan of MARC, but they do have some reliable information.

Frankie you have me plum scared to start raising cattle now! I always thought the concept was pretty simple. Buy some Cows, make sure they can live and thrive on Grass, Mineral and Water. Try to improve the herd so it will grow the most pounds per acre with the least effort and loss.

I quit college to become a Janitor, and now you tell me I have to go back to college to raise some cows. :shock: I wish I realized how important college was when I was young.

 

[Ryder]

LSU has been involved with cross breeding research for years. It has been pretty well established that some Brahman blood is needed to maximize production in Louisiana.
A summary of one of their studies using Angus, Brahman, Charolais, and Hereford breeds:

Rotational crossbred cows produced more calf weaning weight annually per cow exposed over their lifetime than straightbred cows.
(103 pounds more calf weaning weight per cow exposed than straight breds).

Three and four-breed rotation cows produced more than two-breed rotation. (50 pounds more weaning weight than than two-breed rotation. They had previously reported an 11 pound advantage).

Angus-Brahman-Hereford three-breed rotation produced more than other three breed rotations. (Higher fertility levels were the reason for higher production).

Brahman-Hereford two-breed rotaton produced more than other two breed rotations.

Seems to me that the individual producer must make the decision as to if he is willing to possibly take a lower price for Brahman influenced cattle in order to sell more pounds.

This study was for cattle in Louisiana. I don't think it would be any different for other coastal states.

You can look this up at :
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/crops_livestock
Go to menu on right and look for beef cattle and sub topic Breeding and Genetics.
Article is by Dr. D. E. Franke

I post this for informational purposes. I don't have the time nor inclination to argue about it. But I do admit that I think long ears are beautiful.

 

[BC]

[ If you're in east Texas, you're seeing a lot of black cattle being born. The East Texas group, ALOT, Chammis, Twin Eagles.... The demand for Angus bulls in east Texas, LA, AR, GA, is growing year after year. Check out the Beef Developent Center near Navasota. Angus do as well there as any other breed, better than some. Kilgore has a test center, too. Angus bulls will work in more environments than you give them credit for. No, I wouldn't take a bull from Montana and turn it out in south Texas, but I can't see why one one born and raised in that environment wouldn't work.

Frankie, I have seen a lot more black calves at the sale barns in East Texas. I also realize that that the first step in getting on most of the premium grids is to have a black hide. What really bothers me is how many people are keeping black females in an area that anything with a lighter colored hide would be better suited.

Cattle producers need to raise the kind of cows that fit their environemnt. Use a bull that improves the cow to produce a calf that works for the feedlot and the packer.

The Gulf Coast, the country below San Antonio and the Piney Woods can be a harsh climate. Each of those areas needs a cow with a minimum of 3/8 to 1/2 Brahman blood. Along that same line of thinking, as you get to the Red River maybe a 1/4 blood cow would fit Oklahoma and the farther north you go ther is no need for Brahman influence. A 1/2 blood cow when bred to an English or composte bull will produce a 1/4 blood calf that can go to the Texas Panhandle to be fed. A 3/8 blood cow bred the same way will produce a calf with less than 1/4 Brahman influence. According to Dr. Paschal's paper that I posted the link to earlier, the 1/4 and 3/8 Brahman calves were quite acceptable in quality and tenderness. Those calves may not qualify for CAB but they can be successfullyand profitabily raised in areas where cattle that do not contain Brahman blood struggle.

 

[bullred]

Hey fellas!

At the end of the day the bottom line is the "the bottom line." Now here's a quote from the most recent cow/calf weekly.

"King also found the $4.60/cwt. advantage for primarily Angus calves over those with some Brahman influence ("ear") in 2001 increased to $6.77/cwt. in 2004."

So if this is true, look at it this way. A 6 weight angus calf is going to bring you $40.62 (6 x $6.77) more at the sale barn than one with some brahman influence. Now the problem with that is that it would cost me a lot more than $40.62 to get that angus momma to produce me a 6 weight calf, as compared to my tigerstripe mommmas. That may not be true in Kansas or Missouri with thousands of acres of wheat pasture to graze on, but down here on the Gulf of Mexico with Bahia grass and saltwater mosquitoes that come in with landing lights that's the case.

I don't raise tigerstripes because I like the color (although I do like the color). I raise them because they are the best fit for a profitable cow-calf operation along the Gulf Coast.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hey fellas!

At the end of the day the bottom line is the "the bottom line." Now here's a quote from the most recent cow/calf weekly.

"King also found the $4.60/cwt. advantage for primarily Angus calves over those with some Brahman influence ("ear") in 2001 increased to $6.77/cwt. in 2004."

So if this is true, look at it this way. A 6 weight angus calf is going to bring you $40.62 (6 x $6.77) more at the sale barn than one with some brahman influence. Now the problem with that is that it would cost me a lot more than $40.62 to get that angus momma to produce me a 6 weight calf, as compared to my tigerstripe mommmas. That may not be true in Kansas or Missouri with thousands of acres of wheat pasture to graze on, but down here on the Gulf of Mexico with Bahia grass and saltwater mosquitoes that come in with landing lights that's the case.

I don't raise tigerstripes because I like the color (although I do like the color). I raise them because they are the best fit for a profitable cow-calf operation along the Gulf Coast.

Our skeeters are not quite as big as yours as I have run cattle in that country, ours are big enough to breed the turkeys.
Black cattle don't do near as well with the skeeters either they love em. It's hard to imagine skeeters so thick the cattle hit the bay for relief. I have actually seen them so bad they are trying to bite your eyeballs because they have no place left to land they are so thick.
I have only seen 3 bulls that do "well" in that country Brahman,Brangus, and Hereford.

Map of the different enviroments.
http://www.nature.org/wherewework/north ... eb_map.jpg

 

[houstoncutter]

Whewww we I missed all this fun. Had the stomach virus from Hades. Hope none of you get it cause your gonna look like one of your cows on fresh spring grass if you do.....Great for weight loss...lol.
Now let me throw in my 2 bits. I have run many types of cattle in the areas that Caustic has mentioned....That means papered Angus, Limis, Gelbviehs, Simbrahs and Brangus as well as F-1's. Some of these cattle are second or 3 generation animals to these climates. The cattle with some ear, outproformed the straight breds....End of story for me.
A month or so ago I posted sale prices for eared stocker calfs at a Brahman influencted sale. Those prices match or beat prices in the Kansas markets at that given time. Unlike Caustic, I have had good luck with Limiousin bulls, as well as Red and Black Brangus.
I know that Caustic might rub some of you the wrong way, shoot we have crossed swords a few times, but I have always found his arguements to have merrit. The thing is Caustic and and some of us other commercial guys dont really buy into Land Grant college b.s. that is sometimes spouted, as gospel
That does not mean we dont read it, but sometimes you have to see whos footin the bill for some new study. It does seem to skew the outcome of some research

 

[Frankie]

No Frankie I actually am starting to pity you so much potential that is blinded by one breed.

Wow! Is that a back handed compliment? I'm not the one who shoves my breed on everyone. Even if I did, I don't see you beating up Springer for recommendng Murray Greys. Why not? Will they work in every environment?

See here again Navasota is not East Texas it is actually the crosstimbers section of the state, It is on the wrong side of I-45. Let me help you look up the big thicket, see Frankie Texas is a big place North East Texas is nothing like the Big Thicket which is different than the Coastal Bend country with many operating enviroments and these are just a few from the panhandle to the Gulf of Mexico to from the La. bayous to El paso.

I am so impressed that you are taking time to tell me the difference in Texas.

Operating enviroments here vary from 60 inches of rain a year to 10. Now sit down it is almost as far from Beaumont Texas to Chicago 1090 as to El Paso 883 . Texas is very diverse with many different niches and enviroment's drive a 100 miles west (Navasota 25 inches less rainfall in a 100 mile)those cows would starve to death here drinking the grass in East Texas. Now you can move west with no problem. You should work on an epd for that.

EPDs don't tell you a thing about environment. The program that creates them takes the environment influence out. They only tell you (one more time), if you breed a bull with a BW EPD of 5 to your cows, under your management, in your environment, you can EXPECT the calves to weigh 5 more pounds at birth than if you bred those same cows, same management, same environment to a bull of the same breed with a BW EPD of 0. That's what EPDs do.

Well I not changing the direction I have chosen as I have operated in more than one enviroment. Listen to Dun or Doc a voice of reason, who has operated in more than one enviroment.

I don't see Dun or Doc insulting people, demeaning their programs. Only you and your "posse."

I am sorry black calve don't top our salebarn prices its yellow bald face, Super baldies and Tigers. I have problems takin advice from some one that thinks there is only one breed for every enviroment . East Texas will be brammer influenced when your dead and gone. I know that it is hard for you take but your breed don't cut it with out the Brammer.

I wouldn't expect SORRY black calves to top any sale barn. But I'll bet the GOOD black calves sell as well or better at your sale barn as any other color. Brahman breeders were doing some feeding and tenderness testing last I knew. There's no reason they can't identify cattle that will perform and produce good beef.

I bet we could get Bullred to let us use some pasture down in that Long Island Bayou country and you could supply the Angus to die there and we could use that data.

Or you can bring some of those big eared yellow calves up to my sale barn and see how they sell beside the black ones. Most of my bulls go to local buyers. They work well here. You're not telling the truth when you say I try to push Angus on people. Even if I did, why don't you get on Springer's case when he pushes Murray Greys? I think it's because you don't feel threatened by the Greys. But you know the Angus are going to make a difference in your part of the beef industry. And I think you're right.

Frankie admit it at best your a paper cowboy if someone hasn't wriiten it down for you your lost to the real world and different operating enviroments. Your great with a calculator and numbers but your are totally lost to reality of enviroments.

Why should I be worried about your environment? I'm raising cattle in mine and they do fine.

See Frankie I am not educated like you and some other's here I will be the first to admit I am not an eloquent writer. So let this stupid old Cattlemen keep things simple and making money with animals that survive. I just haven't figured out how to make it on a cow that falls apart here.

Poor Caustic. I could almost feel sorry for you, but being "uneducated" doesn't necessarily mean a school education. As I said, I know several people who later in life have learned to raise cattle. No one is born knowing how to be successful in the cattle business. If your way works, fine for you.

I am wrasslin with the hog here. You right Frankie about everthing.

I posted my opinion about Tigerstripe cattle early in this thread. We had some of them. When bred to a good Angus bull, they raised good calves. Not the best in their group, but good calves. And they weren't wild and crazy as you claim yours are. You apparently didn't like my opinion, so you said this about me

"The biggest promlems brammers have is Frankie Fiction buyers that when it comes to cattle dont know whether to wind there butt or wipe there watch.

Don't use my name in vain, Caustic. You may think it's funny. I don't. I can be just as nasty and ugly as you and will do so when you slam me or my breed. It's up to you.

 

[cherokeeruby]

Another mind exercise. Let's take 100 of Frankie's cows and 100 of mine. Throw them out in a national park in a hot humid part of the country. They will have to be kept separate since a Brahman bull will reluctantly breed an Angus cows.

Go back in 5 years and see how many of each breed there is.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Another mind exercise. Let's take 100 of Frankie's cows and 100 of mine. Throw them out in a national park in a hot humid part of the country. They will have to be kept separate since a Brahman bull will reluctantly breed an Angus cows.

Go back in 5 years and see how many of each breed there is.

Not many except the Brammers now Ruby don't get jealous sweetie but Frankie has the hots for me. She has one of them Jr High crushes, I will keep her fought of as long as I can.

 

[cherokeeruby]

Well just tell her to forget it. You are MINE!

 

[Frankie]

Another mind exercise. Let's take 100 of Frankie's cows and 100 of mine. Throw them out in a national park in a hot humid part of the country. They will have to be kept separate since a Brahman bull will reluctantly breed an Angus cows.

Go back in 5 years and see how many of each breed there is.

Not many except the Brammers now Ruby don't get jealous sweetie but Frankie has the hots for me. She has one of them Jr High crushes, I will keep her fought of as long as I can.

You can take those animals and turn them loose. If you can catch them in five years, by all means see what's left. On the other hand, I will be selling mine every year for premiums, since I expect to make money in the cattle business.

Caustic, I doubt anyone has the "hots" for you. Well, maybe... Did you see Brokeback Mountain? Maybe all these guys following you around and hanging on your every word are the people who have the "hots" for you.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well just tell her to forget it. You are MINE!

Well ok.

 

[Frankie]

Another mind exercise. Let's take 100 of Frankie's cows and 100 of mine. Throw them out in a national park in a hot humid part of the country. They will have to be kept separate since a Brahman bull will reluctantly breed an Angus cows.

Go back in 5 years and see how many of each breed there is.

You'd better keep them separate because an Angus bull will gladly breed any cow that will stand still for him. Another plus for my breed.

 

[Jovid]

But you know the Angus are going to make a difference in your part of the beef industry.

Would that be because of CAB? Most Angus breeders I know hate what CAB has done to the breed.

 

[Frankie]

But you know the Angus are going to make a difference in your part of the beef industry.

Would that be because of CAB? Most Angus breeders I know hate what CAB has done to the breed.

CAB gets a lot of credit. Most Angus breeders I know are grateful to the Angus Assn for creating CAB. It gets a lot of credit for the popularity of Angus bulls today.

But I think that most ranchers honestly want to raise the best meat they can. They want the consumers who eat the beef they produce to come back for more and survey after survey tells us consumers prefer Choice beef to Select. What's the difference in Choice and Select? Marbling. Angus have a reputation for marbling. According to some MARC data that I've seen, they carry marbling in a crossbreeding program better than any other breed. No, I don't have a link. Right or wrong, many people see using Angus bulls as the quickest, easiest way to improve the quality of the beef they produce.

 

[alacattleman]

well i was raising brahman cross before i ever new there was a caustic. but i like angus and brahman X both. i suppose that leaves me unaffiliated ;-)

 

[Crowderfarms]

No you're still affliated. You qualify for CAB. Only need a 51 percent black hide. Some joke aint it?

 

[aplusmnt]

According to some MARC data that I've seen,

Have you ever posted on a thread with out using the word MARC?

 

[Jovid]

No you're still affliated. You qualify for CAB. Only need a 51 percent black hide. Some joke aint it?

I guess I will have to dye my red cattle black before I sell them. :lol2: :lol2:

 

[houstoncutter]

"there is no doubt we've made too many cattle too black too fast, now we are paying the price for it."

Thats not my words but Kendall Hopp, general manager of Hays Feeders, Hays Kansas.......Whoa........... hold the phone , that is a feeder of a pretty large outfit in KANSAS, not done south. The smart fella is referring to the yeild grade problems that they have now. Also as reported in the Angus Beef Bulletin, March issue, page 48, Gary Johnson, former Beef Improvement Federation president and past BIF commercial producerof the year. Stated, and I quote, " It takes four steers that make CAB to make up for one YG4"..............Last time I looked their wasnt enough CAB steers to come even close to picking up the slack. As for me and some of us other commercial producers, we dont shoot for CAB, rather a YG1 and choice.....that animal will make money in any market , anywhere