The saga continues

[Herefords.US]

BTW she's his heifer and if he wants to try to recoup some of his investment by flushing her it's not that bad an idea. The last time i looked maternal ability was not the criteria for flushing a cow.

I can see that the legalization of marijuana in Colorado is already affecting the good sense of some of its residents! :tiphat:

 

[3waycross]

BTW she's his heifer and if he wants to try to recoup some of his investment by flushing her it's not that bad an idea. The last time i looked maternal ability was not the criteria for flushing a cow.

I can see that the legalization of marijuana in Colorado is already affecting the good sense of some of its residents! :tiphat:

Not really. I have a relative who owns a flush cow that has produced tens of thousands of dollars worth of embryos and didn't raise a calf till after she had been flushed a couple of times.

Shady bought this heifer for her genetic package and phenatype......who gives a shyt if she can raise a calf. There are millions of cows in the USA who can raise a calf, it doens't make them flush cows.

The fact that your username has the word hereford in it doesn't make you the keeper of the Hereford studbook. If he wants to flush her who the he[[ are you to tell him he can't? What are you smoking .....Acapulco(my as$ is made of )Gold :mrgreen:

Now pass me that doobie and give the poor fella a break. He is already in the shytter! :frowns:

 

[AllForage]

Could take the flush money and hire a shrink so his head can get examined. 7 grand are you serious?

With all due respect, "genetic package" is just another sales promotion buzzword. Longevity is not guaranteed with a "phenotype". All this complaining is not helping his future wonder genetic sales.

 

[3waycross]

Well fellas here's my take on it...............

At the end of the day she's his cow. He can do whatever the heck he wants with her... :cowboy:

 

[AllForage]

Well fellas here's my take on it...............

At the end of the day she's his cow. He can do whatever the heck he wants with her... :cowboy:

Excactly, so the "days of our lives" this has turned into was not very smart. Man up and make a decision and pay the stupid tax.

 

[highgrit]

I feel bad for the ole boy. Spent lot's of money trying to do the right thing and so far it's been a nightmare.
I wish him the best of luck, that's about all I can do.

 

[3waycross]

Well fellas here's my take on it...............

At the end of the day she's his cow. He can do whatever the heck he wants with her... :cowboy:

Excactly, so the "days of our lives" this has turned into was not very smart. Man up and make a decision and pay the stupid tax.

Well bro we have all been there.....i certainly have found out that "pie in the sky" has very little flavor but it sure can look good!

 

[Alan]

Could take the flush money and hire a shrink so his head can get examined. 7 grand are you serious?

With all due respect, "genetic package" is just another sales promotion buzzword. Longevity is not guaranteed with a "phenotype". All this complaining is not helping his future wonder genetic sales.

Well what's really nice about earning and having my own money is I have the right and privelage to spend it how ever the he!! I want. He took a huge step toward building a respectable Hereford herd and got screwed by one of, if not the biggest, Hereford producers out there.

IMO about all he can do is call Starlake, get to the highest ranking officer he can and lay out the whole nightmare for them in a calm, civil voice. With luck he will get more than a empty apology.

 

[u4411clb]

I really appreciate the education. If a huge outfit like Starlake can have a nightmare like this at their dispersal sale. I know I will be discounting any lots I bid on at a dispersal sale form this point on. The seller can basicly say too bad if a cow they said is bred is not bred. What if a bull sold can't breed or settle cows is that also as is tough luck. It would almost make me take any cow or bull sold at a full dispersal right from the sale to the vet. To have soundness exam on bull and double checked on palpataion on cows. So that you can drop their damaged merchendise back on them the next day if not the same day as the sale. I mean I know it sounds cynical but who is to say this heifer was ever bred in the first place.

 

[cowgirl_jenna]

Been a interesting thread here. dispersals are tricky, if its a true dispersal and they are to never have cattle again, they may not be as inclined to "help you out" verses if they want repeat business.

A couple years ago, we bought a good bull from a reputable breeder for one of our cow groups, he was guaranteed to breed cows. We watched the first cows he bred, 21 days later they were in heat again. Called the seller, he came out and helped us get the bull in the corral and in the chute when the vet arrived. Long story short, for some reason the bull was now shooting blanks.? No sooner then the vet announced this, the seller was on his phone and searching for a new bull for us. He didn't have any left himself, but that afternoon one of his workers pulled in with their trailer with a new bull for us. The new bull was worth at least double what we paid for the first one. We called the seller to see what the "terms" were. He replied with this, if you are ok with the new bull, he's yours, then he asked where we wanted to take the old bull- his worker would take him to the auction market of our choice, and whatever he sold for was ours to keep for our trouble. WOW, we couldn't believe it, we loved the new bull by the way. I know this doesn't help out the original poster, but there are still some good cattle sellers out there. We've worked with this individual many times since, and are 100% satisfied. Just thought I'd share
Jenna

 

[HOSS]

Been a interesting thread here. dispersals are tricky, if its a true dispersal and they are to never have cattle again, they may not be as inclined to "help you out" verses if they want repeat business.

A couple years ago, we bought a good bull from a reputable breeder for one of our cow groups, he was guaranteed to breed cows. We watched the first cows he bred, 21 days later they were in heat again. Called the seller, he came out and helped us get the bull in the corral and in the chute when the vet arrived. Long story short, for some reason the bull was now shooting blanks.? No sooner then the vet announced this, the seller was on his phone and searching for a new bull for us. He didn't have any left himself, but that afternoon one of his workers pulled in with their trailer with a new bull for us. The new bull was worth at least double what we paid for the first one. We called the seller to see what the "terms" were. He replied with this, if you are ok with the new bull, he's yours, then he asked where we wanted to take the old bull- his worker would take him to the auction market of our choice, and whatever he sold for was ours to keep for our trouble. WOW, we couldn't believe it, we loved the new bull by the way. I know this doesn't help out the original poster, but there are still some good cattle sellers out there. We've worked with this individual many times since, and are 100% satisfied. Just thought I'd share
Jenna

Breeders like this are the ones that get my repeat business. I bought a Gelbvieh bull a few years ago that failed a BSE. The breeder let me pick out another more expensive bull and traded even for the defective bull. He got to salvge the defective bull and recoup some of his money but he still took a loss to make me happy. I have since bought two more bulls and 3 heifers from him. I hope to buy three more on Saturday from the same breeder.

 

[KNERSIE]

Good post Jenna, a lot of people can learn from it, but breeders must also be streetwise, there are unscrupulous bull buyers out there, too! Make sure your guarantee specifies the conditions that apply and how discrepancies are going to be handled.

 

[Anonymous]

Well fellas here's my take on it...............

At the end of the day she's his cow. He can do whatever the heck he wants with her... :cowboy:

Technically she's not even a cow yet ;-)

 

[Chris H]

With Starlakes guarantee, or lack of it, on the dispersal I doubt Shady will get much out of them. It wouldn't stop me from giving them a call and talking to them. They might be able to at least come up with some semen from the service sire.

However, since you don't know when or why she slipped the calf, I'd have a vet exam done. If she checks out OK, I'd breed her and see if she can actually carry a calf to term. If she can't, there is no way I'd flush her to reproduce her genetics.

 

[Herefords.US]

What if a bull sold can't breed or settle cows is that also as is tough luck.

I can personally attest that in MY case it was indeed also my "tough luck"!

 

[Herefords.US]

With Starlakes guarantee, or lack of it, on the dispersal I doubt Shady will get much out of them. It wouldn't stop me from giving them a call and talking to them. They might be able to at least come up with some semen from the service sire.

However, since you don't know when or why she slipped the calf, I'd have a vet exam done. If she checks out OK, I'd breed her and see if she can actually carry a calf to term. If she can't, there is no way I'd flush her to reproduce her genetics.

Ahhh - another "voice" of reason! :banana: :banana: :banana:

 

[smnherf]

I think the only hope you have any hope of recouping anything from this would be to have a vet do an examination of her reproductive organs and if your lucky enough he would find she is a freemartin or something like that which would prove she could never have been pregnant. Then you could possibly could have some legal recourse. Otherwise I have to say that you cant prove she wasnt pregnant and aborted while in your possesion. Actually a pretty good policy in a dispersion situation is to have your purchases preg checked as soon as they are in your possession.

As far as flushing her, sometimes in the registered cattle business you have to know when to quite throwing good money after bad. She may be open to no faullt of her own, but chances are pretty good that she has some role in it. I have sold several high dollar animals over the scale through the years and I beleive my herd is better for it now.

Also, it is not uncommon for cattle to reabsord a fetus post ultrasound. Some ultrasound is done as soon as 30 days post breeding and I have seen several times that 4 or 5 months later they are open. It may have been an honest mistake on Star Lakes part.

 

[shadyhollownj]

Ok so I see this thread was busy today. Just got home from work and only had a chance to call star lake once with no answer. Obviously I would only consider a flush if she came back 100% healthy as far as reproductive tract. My bull in with her for two days got her so I dont know how much she has to do with it. I would only flush to see if these calves turn out to be anything while the genetics are on the rise not the low years from now. If I could get out a couple good calves next year then I will have my answer as far as calves not longevity a lot sooner. A flush at transova would cost me 700 bucks. Thats ten percent of my investment. If the calves dont turn out then they will be sold as freezer beef off the farm so I would at least break even and at most farms that all you could ask. I also have a call into the vet i'm going to use for my embryo work so he can come out and ultrasound her. I figure if she kicked a calf 5+ months old at sale date you should be able to tell if that passed through the cervix. At least that my thinking. I may be completely wrong. I dont think I am gonna go the lawyer route cause I dont think it will be worth the hassle, time, or money. At least if i say I have a vet exam that says she never kicked a calf then I may have a little more weight to throw around if it matters at all.

Allforage I signed my name to almost a half mil worth of equipment and advertising when I was 24 for my contracting business and that worked out great. All my friends told me I was crazy so I take that as a compliment from you not an insult. So 17,000 at star lake for a hobby I actually enjoy and would like to make a future out of isnt crazy at least in my book. I have no problem taking risks to get ahead in life. I also have no problem "paying the tax" as you would say and man up but use this board for a little sanity or insanity depending upon member. Insanity is not paying 7000 dollars for a heifer that could give you a calf that could sell for 3-4000 dollars every year at least at consignment sales near me. I think 7 grand was the average for the sale. Its not my fault she is open and its not working out as planned. At least some of the answers in this post will be educational to others and not let this happen to someone else. I mean do you think if someone else had this nightmare at a dispersal and I read it I wouldnt have been gun shy. Well maybe not cause I need my head examined. Maybe I can get a group discount with some other members. Who's in with me?

As far as the semen it really wouldnt help from Makin Time who was supposed to be the sire since I have an ET bull calf on the ground that is a full brother to him and Tymeless. If that wasnt the case I would at least push for a few free straws.

 

[Ouachita]

Is it possible this heifer calved shortly after the sale and somebody kept the calf? ;-)

 

[shadyhollownj]

Maybe it had one of those special gestation epds that was 130 early.