The fun with heifers calving continues.

[Ky hills]

You can not blame inbreeding for bad genetics. Inbreeding is like coming in to money, it will only highlight what you already have.

Trying to breed up from auction barn cows is a long row to hoe.

I did not blame everything on inbreeding and I specifically said that I thought the genetics of the bull (from registered animals not from stockyards) were to blame for no milk. I did say that inbreeding of the sire to some of the daughters could have been a factor in the real small calves and possibly the deformed calf.
Yes a large part of our cows came from the stockyards as around 500 pound heifers. Some of those are now cows that have been in herd for 10+ years and we have retained daughters of them by other bulls that have done fine.
We have only been recently having milk issues and that is likely from a registered bull. I've also in the recent past had a small group of both registered Angus and Herefords, from those registered cattle cattle we have retained a few bulls.
The registered cattle are not stockyards purchased animals.
I agree whole heartedly that the quality of quite a few stockyards cows is lacking, we only have one cow that was purchased as an actual mature cow at a stockyards.
Yes, the heifers bought through the sale ring are a big risk, I try to be selective and buy better end small groups of heifers when looking for replacements. Typically those do ok, I would say the percentage of success from them as far as having and raising calves is on par or pretty close with home raised heifers be they registered or commercial.
Definitely you're right though. it's a big potential risk to buy in replacements.

 

[Travlr]

You can not blame inbreeding for bad genetics. Inbreeding is like coming in to money, it will only highlight what you already have.

Trying to breed up from auction barn cows is a long row to hoe.

Genetics gets a lot of blame. Sometimes deserved. Sometimes not. Often times in this game it's just the nature of the beast. The issues mentioned here could just as easily be freak issues. They are all different.

Aw c'mon... That sounds like excuses for bad management to me. I wasn't in the business to take chances. Good livestock producers use the tools they have to minimize risk. If someone is inbreeding because they don't have the money to replace a bull and get stuck with that situation in one breeding season it's one thing... but if they are just knowingly taking that kind of risk because they are too lazy or ignorant to avoid the risk it's another.
If you read the posts here with the idea of learning... you can see a commonality to those with detrimental anomalies.
We're either here to discuss and share information to help each other, or we're just here to sling bull**it and be emotionally supportive.
I see inbreeding in the same way I see any other reason to cull. Again, I minimize risk as a matter of management. Y'all are of course free to see this differently, but I can tell you with authority that people had less detrimental genetic anomalies fifty years ago and today people are just making excuses for it and getting some pretty bad results.

 

[Ky hills]

@Travlr im I agreement with you that I prefer not to inbreed.
I also see the point @Brute 23 is making about stockyard cows. It can be a real roll of the dice, so many factors play into it.
Back to Travlr's comments, that is the reason that I shared the experiences that we are currently having. I could post only the good stuff and cute calves etc and that would give folks a total different view of what our day to day is like.
I like to show some of all it. I don't mind sharing mistakes and problems because that's a part of it at least it always has been for me. Maybe other people can take what I have said and use that to not do things the same or if it works maybe something to consider. We are a small time outfit compared to a lot of folks on here, but I've always been a full time cattle farmer, so it's something I take seriously. I don't always have the budget to afford the best bulls and best cows or heifers. We have to sometimes make hard decisions that are not always right in the long run.
We've had a string of tough times with purchased registered bulls lately and a lot of that is what prompted the venture to get some registered females and raise our own bulls, Now that has hit a major problem so it's like there is no one size fits all solution to any of it.
My recent ventures of bulls were from breeders that were newer and maybe less experienced, that may not be a problem in every situation certainly, but currently I'm going to go back to buying bulls from longtime established breeders, in hopes of finding what I'm looking for.
On the other side of the farm our cows are calving and thus far everything is going good on that side, I'll just know not to chance keeping back any heifers from our current bull.
I've been involved with cattle over 30 years, love it, only life I've ever known
You hit a bad spot, pick up what's left and go from there, that's how it's always been, and that's the hope that keeps me going.

 

[Brute 23]

I think we are going to continue to see issues like this in our industry because of where the seedstock producers are headed. There is too much emphasis on numbers and color and they are over producing unproven genetics. All those numbers mean nothing if we can't keep those animals productive or even alive in some cases. As long as people keep buying animals sight unseen and for color instead of actual performance, not epds, this will only get worse.

 

[Heronfish]

Genetics gets a lot of blame. Sometimes deserved. Sometimes not. Often times in this game it's just the nature of the beast. The issues mentioned here could just as easily be freak issues. They are all different.

It could just be that cows aren't smart

 

[Travlr]

It could just be that cows aren't smart

I had a neighbor with a pasture close to his house where he'd put his cows as they were getting ready to calve. At the far end of the pasture was some downed trees and an irrigation ditch. and every year he'd find a couple of drowned newborn calves in the ditch. Of course he had cows he missed that he never got brought in to the close, "safe" pasture where he could watch over them, and he rarely lost any calves born in those other fields.
And he was always complaining about losing calves and saying how stupid his cows were...

 

[Heronfish]

I had a neighbor with a pasture close to his house where he'd put his cows as they were getting ready to calve. At the far end of the pasture was some downed trees and an irrigation ditch. and every year he'd find a couple of drowned newborn calves in the ditch. Of course he had cows he missed that he never got brought in to the close, "safe" pasture where he could watch over them, and he rarely lost any calves born in those other fields.
And he was always complaining about losing calves and saying how stupid his cows were...

We had an old girl around here. Finally sent her away last fall at the age of 16. Always brought in a good calf in the fall. Really the type of cow every one of us would want to have.

But every year when she started to calve, she would spend hours claiming other calves as her own before she finally settled down and had her calf. Then everything was fine.

I go back to that cows aren't bright.

 

[Travlr]

We had an old girl around here. Finally sent her away last fall at the age of 16. Always brought in a good calf in the fall. Really the type of cow every one of us would want to have.

But every year when she started to calve, she would spend hours claiming other calves as her own before she finally settled down and had her calf. Then everything was fine.

I go back to that cows aren't bright.

Human beings don't spend a lot of time trying to understand things they've already decided are stupid...

 

[Warren Allison]

My recent ventures of bulls were from breeders that were newer and maybe less experienced, that may not be a problem in every situation certainly, but currently I'm going to go back to buying bulls from longtime established breeders, in hopes of finding what I'm looking for.

I am sure you know some like that around you.., just as I know some I would trust here in north GA too. And, there are about 3 or so on here, that are a state or two away from me, and one a long way from me, that I would buy one of their bulls without hesitation. 2 of them I have never even talked to before....just on here. I base this on what I have seen them post on here...the way they respond to people's questions and opinions that are requested. And this may not make sense,, but sometimes it is not so much what they say, as it is things they don't say. Of course, seeing pics of their cattle is a big part. So are comments from other people that have done business with them. Nothing wrong with tooting your own horn about a good program that they have worked hard to build...some for a lifetime. But it sure does say a lot when other people toot your horn for you, too!

And there are people on here, that I would buy commercial cows or heifers from.. and you are one of them...based on what they told me about them.

You know what you are doing, and I got a feeling the next bull you get will work out fantastic!

 

[Ky hills]

I am sure you know some like that around you.., just as I know some I would trust here in north GA too. And, there are about 3 or so on here, that are a state or two away from me, and one a long way from me, that I would buy one of their bulls without hesitation. 2 of them I have never even talked to before....just on here. I base this on what I have seen them post on here...the way they respond to people's questions and opinions that are requested. And this may not make sense,, but sometimes it is not so much what they say, as it is things they don't say. Of course, seeing pics of their cattle is a big part. So are comments from other people that have done business with them. Nothing wrong with tooting your own horn about a good program that they have worked hard to build...some for a lifetime. But it sure does say a lot when other people toot your horn for you, too!

And there are people on here, that I would buy commercial cows or heifers from.. and you are one of them...based on what they told me about them.

You know what you are doing, and I got a feeling the next bull you get will work out fantastic!

Thanks, I'm hoping so.

 

[Travlr]

Thanks, I'm hoping so.

And then there are the people on here that like to spread a lot of opinions while strewing compliments as though they know enough to give them. Gotta watch those people that like buttering your a$$. Remember that flattery is like chewing gum. Enjoy it, but don't swallow it.

 

[Ky hills]

Found another heifer with a calf this morning.
Carried it to the barn and put the pair up till after church, to make sure it had colostrum and to check if the heifer has milk. So far everything is as it should be, calf has nursed and heifer has milk in all quarters though it is a small udder it seems different more like a cow with a small udder that still has enough milk for a calf. We'll keep a watch on her to make sure the calf is doing ok. Turned them back out.
Other calves are doing well on the Jersey

 

[coachg]

Found another heifer with a calf this morning.
Carried it to the barn and put the pair up till after church, to make sure it had colostrum and to check if the heifer has milk. So far everything is as it should be, calf has nursed and heifer has milk in all quarters though it is a small udder it seems different more like a cow with a small udder that still has enough milk for a calf. We'll keep a watch on her to make sure the calf is doing ok. Turned them back out.
Other calves are doing well on the JerseyView attachment 42506View attachment 42507

Wow ! Hope they don't founder .

 

[Ky hills]

Wow ! Hope they don't founder .

Yeah, I time them and get away from the cow at around five minutes till they get a little age. So far I've been leaving her calf with her, he nurses the front quarters whenever he wants. I'll soon put her out and let her back in twice a day to the 3.

 

[coachg]

Yeah, I time them and get away from the cow at around five minutes till they get a little age. So far I've been leaving her calf with her, he nurses the front quarters whenever he wants. I'll soon put her out and let her back in twice a day to the 3.

She's a milk wagon for sure ! I haven't had any luck finding one for my bottle girl .

 

[Warren Allison]

She's a milk wagon for sure ! I haven't had any luck finding one for my bottle girl .

If you want to PM me a ball-park figure, or an up-to figure you'd like to pay, I will look for one tomorrow at the Calhoun sale. Doubtful there would be one with a calf on it, but might be one heavy bred. And, I will ask around of those who might have one or know of one. PM me your phone number too, if you want to, and if I run up on one someone has at their place, I will call you, get them to send you pics, video etc. All the years I have gone to sales weekly, seems like there was always some for sale. But when you need one, you can't find them anywhere! I have about come to the conclusion that for anyone in the cow-calf business...especially those who retain heifers, or buy them.... a nurse cow is about as an important a piece of "equipment" as a trailer, tractor, head gate, squeeze chute, etc...

 

[Warren Allison]

@coachg did you get that milk cow you were talking about earlier this week. I am going to a cow and heifer sale in Calhoun tomorrow. Want me to call you if I see one that might work for you?

 

[kenny thomas]

@coachg did you get that milk cow you were talking about earlier this week. I am going to a cow and heifer sale in Calhoun tomorrow. Want me to call you if I see one that might work for you?

I seen a few on their video with tag marks so be careful.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Found another heifer with a calf this morning.
Carried it to the barn and put the pair up till after church, to make sure it had colostrum and to check if the heifer has milk. So far everything is as it should be, calf has nursed and heifer has milk in all quarters though it is a small udder it seems different more like a cow with a small udder that still has enough milk for a calf. We'll keep a watch on her to make sure the calf is doing ok. Turned them back out.
Other calves are doing well on the JerseyView attachment 42506View attachment 42507

The red calf looks like he/she is thinking maybe he/she ate to much

 

[Warren Allison]

I seen a few on their video with tag marks so be careful.

I am not interested in anything but maybe the Brahmas. They have Brahma pairs, bred cows, heifers and some bulls that will be selling. and I have a place to go with them if I can get them low enough to make a dollar on. I don't want to end up with them myself, though. Dude that was buying my Plummers when the calves are weaned, called me today and said he'd give me what I asked for them as pairs, and would get them out of the pasture by next weekend. Other than my Brangus bull, and those 5 nurse cows and their calves....4 of which are farmed out to other people.....I won't have anything to fool with but my herd of maintenance-free Corriente cows and their calves. But....if I see that I can get them at a price to where I could clear them....I might keep a pair or two. But I hope not! LOL