Suggestions needed for calf not thriving

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LisaW

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We discovered on Friday morning that our oldest cow, about 12 or 13 yrs old, had calved. Her calfs have been generally smaller in the past two years and have a rough start. They take longer to stand and are weaker the first few days than any other calves we have. But they turn out just fine and are as strong and as big as the others.

We were gone all day Saturday.

Sunday morning we found the calf in a terrible state. She was quite dehydrated and too weak to even raise her head. It looked like she hadn't sucked at all Saturday and hadn't moved from the spot where we saw her on Friday evening. This was unexpected. We tube fed the calf because it would not suck. After a bit it got up but it's back hooves are turned under and it's walking on it's pasterns. As it would walk yesterday we noticed that it would only walk in right hand circles, rarely a straight line. It never raises it's head on it's own but walks in circles, somewhat hunched, with its head down. It doesn't seem to recognize anything or react to anything other than the tube feeding.

We have not seen it suck but this morning I think it had because it's belly was full and the mama was a bit less full. It was up and walking on it's hooves today but the lower legs/joints look very strange. Later this morning I'll go out and see if it'll suck my fingers, that'll give me a clue if it's sucking reflexes are working at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions? We don't have a pen to put them in together and the corral is in the winter pasture. We can move them, but there's no water source there or shade/wind/rain protection.

Now, a bit of info that may be related. We discovered tansy in our hay this winter. One cow must have gotten the most of it because she reacted quite badly. The vet came and said she looked okay and if she'd abort the calf it would have happened around that time. None of the other cows seemed to show any signs of the tansy (or whatever was in the hay). We did replace all the hay for the rest of the season with hay from another source. But if this cow had gotten the tansy as well, would it cause neurological development problems in the calf? This happened 5 months ago so the calves would have been at about 4 months gestation.

Thanks a bunch.
 
I have a blind calf that seems to walk in right hand circles a lot, expecially when she is nervous. That wouldn't cause any of the other problems though, sorry :(
 
Hi ya,
I have a question, 2 actually, did the calf receive colostrum? and you talked about the joints being funny, does the calf have navel ill? check the belly button area for swelling, and warmth. Use clean hands preferably so you don't cross contaminate.
Also with tubing colostrum are you adding some electrloyes to rebalance his system from dehydration? We like "calf lyte HE".
Is there a temperature with this calf?
Do you vaccinate you animals?
I guesss that is more thatn 2 questions
post and keep us updated
 
My question is why do you continually put up with a sorry cow.
Cost more to keep a sorry one than a good one. I would get this calf/cow up and going and Hi Ho Hi Ho off to the salebarn we would go,
 
Temp is 103.1*. She's lying in the warm sun and I took the temp after I started handling her. I should have done it first thing. If I remember right, normal is 100.5* to 102.5*.

Blindness I'm considering since it doesn't seem to notice anything. Then again it's in such bad condition that it could be from that too.

Reading the link that was posted now, but had to work around it because it didn't work in it's original form as pasted. Thanks. Reading it sounds a little like her, but what I learned in nursing school is EVERYTHING we read can sound like what we have. :) Still, I'll look into it. I'm not sure where it would come from or why it wouldn't affect anyone else. There are 13 other cows there that share one of the fence lines and over a dozen sheep nearby as well. Then there are about 50 cow/calf pairs across the property fence line. Everyone else is healthy and behaving appropriately.

I don't know if she got colostrum but I assume that because she sucked, even a little, that she got something. I gave her a colostrum mix on Sunday and today I gave her milk replacer. She does not have a strong sucking reflex at all but I've tried with the bottle almost every time to see if she'll get the hang of it. Then we use the tube. She has crapped once that I can tell, nothing new on her tail. If nothing goes in, nothing comes out.

Naval is normal.

Yeah, getting the calf up and going is my objective here. That's why I'm asking for advice. I'd like the advice to focus what to do to get her up and going and what we may be looking at here, not how to run our business.
 
Lisa, menigitis I am still not sure why they get it even when it was explained ,the one that I lost to it didn't fit the criteria at all.However septicemia I have been told that the calf can get it as soon as it is out of the cow the bacteria is "ingested" through the mouth or the naval especially if the calf has a weekened immune system .Maybe that has been the problem with your older cow the last two years; it's calfs are not strong enough at birth.Also do you vaccinate your cows?
I know this doesn't help you treat the calf or give you real answers but both are horrible things to have and I have yet to save one that I know of that has had this condition.But you have to try because it may not be either one.If you really want to know call your vet out.However they will probably diagnose over the phone and tell you septicemia /meningits.
By the way we do vaccinate and do the scour guard before they calve and still have had it.
 
Lisa, have you ever had a calf born with contracted tendons? That maybe what's wrong with the calf.

With contracted tendons it is hard for the calf to stand to suck, and it may just be too weak from dehydration and lack of nutrition to suck very much on its own.

Keep the calf hydrated with electrolytes and keep the calf nourished with milk/milk replacer. Both are vital, but it is not a good idea to mix the two. Alternate giving each throughout the day. AND, give that baby PROBIOS!

Good luck, and keep us posted, please.
 
Alice you are forever the optimist. ;-) I hope it is that because the other two are sad there is no hope.The circling of the calf to me is a kind of give away to the ailment though.Like I said I hope I am wrong.
 
No, HD, it doesn't sound good...but I've seen the walking dead come back with electrolytes and nutrition. 'Course, nuflor got thrown in here and there...

Truly, Lisa, I hope things turn around for you. It's so hard to work, and work, and work to save a calf, especially when you are fighting the unknown.

Alice
 
LisaW,

I lost a number of calves this spring which had similar symptoms. The vet did a post on the last one. He said it was septicemia which was most likely caused by an E coli. Every internal organ showed signs of infection. Mine never got the scours and were dead within a day or two of first showing symptoms. All of them occurred within 3 to 5 days of birth.

Tansy causes liver failure in the cows. I have never heard of this moving to the calf.

Dave
 
Thanks everyone. :)

Okay, she's got her feet straightened out and walking better. She voided, so things are working inside and what we're putting in is coming out. So far, no evidence of scours with that...

We gave her some antibiotics and moved them into the horse paddock by the house.

My daughter thinks she's blind. She doesn't flinch when you move your hand near her eye, not even a blink. She did hollar out when she walked into the electric fence, so at least something is working right. She did back up a bit but didn't move after that. I think she was afraid of where to go and what to do.

We lost 5 ewe/lambs this spring but that was due to toxemia in one and lambing with the other.

With the meningitis, wouldn't someone else contract it as well? I'm concerned that if that is what we're looking at that someone else will get it or has it as well. I would tend to think that if nobody else get sick then it wouldn't be a virus or bacteria, kwim?

Thanks a lot everyone, I really appreciate being able to work this through with other people.
 
Lisa,

There's one thing to be aware of with scours. Sometimes the poop is so watery that it looks like the calf has simply peed.

Keep the electrolytes going along with the milk replacer and probios. Ya' never know...everything might work out just fine! I always figure it's worth a try. :)

Alice
 
Poop was solid, more like jello. The colostrum color, if you know what I mean. Pee was light color, not dark. So I'm thinking that scours isn't top of my list.

I'm still concerned about the lack of sucking. The weakness is explained, at least at the moment, by the lack of feeding. But she's stronger today than yesterday and this afternoon than before I fed her again.

We gave LA200 and are considering a boost of B Complex (works wonders in sheep). I'll feed her again this evening and hope for the best. Electrolytes are also another common on-hand item with the sheep.

BUT I did only buy a small bucket of milk replacer. I don't intend to be feeding like this very long, a resolution needs to happen one way or another.

And yes, I did give her probios on Sunday before we tubefed the first time. :) I have forgotten to mention that and I think you've mentioned it twice.
 
Yep, I've mentioned probios twice...and if you'll do a search you'll find out I've probably mentioned it a gajillion times. Talk about buying stuff by the case!

Good luck.

Alice
 
:lol:

Couldn't have you thinking I was ignoring your advice!

And the vaccinations was mentioned twice too, I forgot. We vaccinated regularly till last year. We were advised that because we don't buy any animals from anywhere but breed our own and sell them that it wasn't necessary. And because we don't bring any outside animals onsite, again it wasn't necessary. We were mulling that over when we acquired two new children last spring. That upset the apple cart and everything fell by the wayside just so we could cope with day-to-day stuff. Vaccinations are back on the schedule for this year, the kids just left last week.

So, no. We haven't vaccinated since this time last year. But we have no new animals (other than born on site animals) and we haven't had any other animals on site. Only a few sheep left home for a week when the kids took them to the fair (the kids have been up on the sheep shots though) and they're quarantined when they come home - away from the horse and the cows.

Okay - wasn't that more info than you needed!?
 
I thought about that after I hit the submit button. LOL

Yes we do bring a bull on site from the neighbor. We share two of the four property lines with this neighbor and he has a large Hereford operation. He loans us a bull every year for a few months. I guess I didn't think of that last night because it's here for a short time and he manages his animals very well. Besides if there was something bad going on at his place we'd get it anyway because the cows are right next to eachother all the time in various pastures.

I made a mistake, I forgot the bull.

As for today she's still not sucking but she is growing and voiding, walking and holding her head higher than she had been. Her feet have straightened out to normal, it just took longer than normal. However she's taken to drooling now.

Mama is still full but she's not bellaring as much so I'm figuring that she's not as uncomfortable as she's been - so she's not producing the milk now.
 
Have you tried putting the calf back with the Mom, might be the best thing if she could get to drinking moms milk again.

GMN
 
They are together. She still doesn't show any interest in sucking. Mama is interested in the calf but she seems to know that the calf won't be sucking. She never presents her hindquarters to the calf and when the calf walks past her she turns away. Yet she's still protective and attentive. Who knows what instincts they have about these things...

My daughter and I read more of the link that was posted earlier about the meningitis & encephalitis and she's showing more signs of this than when we first read it. I'm hoping that this isn't what we have because my priority is finding out if it's going to spread. I need to run to town again and then I'll call the vet.
 

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