Try the Madigan Squeeze. May be too late if it hasn't had colostrum but you don't know that for sure and the squeeze is worth a shot.
Calf not nursing
- Thread starter dave_shelby
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dave_shelby
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I am super interested in this technique. Thanks
Stocker Steve
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Can not argue with consistent success. What is the cause of these pre natel brain infections?
devonian
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Could do with some sort of food safe spray/dye on the market I reckon to put on the cows teats to let you know if the calf has sucked/ nursed. Either it would clean the teats or leave a coloured dye on the calves mouth. It would take the guessing game out of the situation, if the calf has already fed how much damage will you do tubing it 2 litres of milk? Likewise if you opt not to feed it and it hasn't fed it will go hungry and get very ill. Thats why I opt for the small feed intervention.
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MurraysMutts
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I forgot about that!!
Bessie got kool-aid dipped once. Remember ol Dumbo? The non sucker.
Yep. Kool-aid works great!
Buck Randall
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Don't do this unless you want your calves to get pneumonia from inhaling milk.
Buck Randall
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Don't forget the magic dust and holy incantations.
Most slow suckers get going eventually, leading people to believe that whatever they did to try to fix it "worked".
To each there own. I get people's problem calves Every year. You don't have to agree with me. I do what works for me, you do what works for you. I should have specified that if you do enlarge the nipple, once they're drinking good swap back to a new nipple. I personally haven't had an issue with enlarging the hole. But everyone's situation is different.. I'm going off of Life Experience. But people don't have to follow my advice. I also have 3 different vet clinics in my area that I get advice from. Some people Don't have access to even one.
Not sure, too long calving.. mom had a fever at one time during pregnancy. Who knows? Ken or Buck might shed some light on the idea.
dave_shelby
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I wasn't sure about creating this post, but I am sure glad I did because I learned a lot. Appreciate everyones input.
The calf seems like it nursed at some point, there was yellow poop last night. Did a shot of multi-min and B, but never was able to bottle or tube feed it. Back out to pasture!
The calf seems like it nursed at some point, there was yellow poop last night. Did a shot of multi-min and B, but never was able to bottle or tube feed it. Back out to pasture!
sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's now after the fact since you said it's all good and you tossed them back out. But throughout my years of calving I've learned there is only one way to know for sure if the calf knows how to nurse. You either sit and observe until you see him latch on, but if that doesn't happen....... in the Squeeze the cow goes. On one side you can see if the cow has milk on all 4, as a full udder can be deceiving, been there done that. And you can grab the calf and help it to latch on if it's too stupid. Might have to leave them locked up and help the calf a couple more times manually, but once he's got it they can go run off.
We've had bad luck with the guessing game if the calf has sucked or not, so no more messing around. Unless you have a crazy wild cow of course, then it's not worth it and she just confirmed her one way ticket come fall.
We've had bad luck with the guessing game if the calf has sucked or not, so no more messing around. Unless you have a crazy wild cow of course, then it's not worth it and she just confirmed her one way ticket come fall.
Nesikep
Well-known member
My first calf of the year had a really swollen tongue.. I have a lamb nipple on a 500cc water bottle.. I find that is very comfortable to use, I can easily squeeze it to make milk flow and if the calf nurses well they can just collapse the bottle .. I know it's frustrating when they don't nurse.. I found a pint at a time is good, even with fighting them you can usually get most of it down their throat.. come back with more in a couple hours and repeat. After a day this guy was up and going and "got it".. so I hooked him up to momma and he was fine. Momma was super cooperative too, I could milk her right into the bottle with no issues.. that always helps
Silver
Well-known member
Couldn't have said it any better.
This! 3 years ago, it sure looked like the cow had a full udder, but I had seen the calf on her & her teats were shiny. Except the calf kept bawling. Red flag. Sucked my finger, took a bottle. Lucky for me, this cow had been born & raised here (9 years old at the time) and actually brought her calf down to the barn and saved me the trouble of catching/loading in the trailer. Off to the vet & 2 quarters were dead, the other 2 okay but not enough. Kept them in the barn long enough for the calf to learn that I was his primary source of nutrition, then let them join the herd. Majority of the time, mama & calf were waiting for me with a supplemental bottle until he learned to rob off other cows and eventually refused the bottle.
Mat Man
Well-known member
I agree with TC need to make sure she has milk.
If she does I would not do any thing unless calf starts getting weak.
If she does I would not do any thing unless calf starts getting weak.
devonian
Well-known member
We did this with our latest calf ( whose mother had a real low udder) we bought another crush/ squeeze for our calving shed last year so we were able to stick the cow in the crush and then stick the calf on the teat we even had to lie the calf down at one point so it could get low enough. 24 hours later I wasn't sure if the calf was doing its thing on its own or not so back in the crush the cow went and the calf was able to suck whilst standing and even use its tongue to manoeuvre the teat into its mouth! Worry and stress over. So the new crush was a worthwhile investment and has already proved itself.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Pretty sure they're not 'pre-natal' infections. But neonatal septicemia can take hold pretty quickly, and if meningitis is part of the deal... calves' mentation is gonna be altered.
Most baby calves I saw coming through the diagnostic lab had navel ill/joint ill - fibrin &/or pus in multiple joints, and fibrin on the surface of internal umbilical arteries...and a significant number also had meningitis.
Probably if we'd had the ability to collect a serum sample before death, it would have indicated a 'failure of passive transfer of maternal antibodies'... meaning: 1) they didn't get any colostrum, 2) they got colostrum too late to absorb it(after 24 hrs), 3) colostrum was poor quality, 4) stressors &/or mismanagement(feeding milk, whiskey, Karo syrup, egg, etc.) caused absorption sites for colostral antibodies in intestinal tract to 'close' - or, in some cases, a combination of two or more of these factors.
Clean calving sites are really important. That fresh, wet umbilical cord is a 'straight shot' right into the circulatory system for bacteria. Additionally, 30 years ago, I sat in on a presentation at an equine conference indicating that a significant number of 'joint ill' cases came from bacteria gaining access to the bloodstream through the soles of foals hooves, as that rubbery eponychium material was rapidly worn off. They confirmed this by 'painting' colostrum-deprived newborn foals' hooves with specific bacterial cultures, and then isolating that specific bacterium from affected joints. Evidence was convincing enough to me and my wife (also a DVM) that from that point forward, if we were attending a foaling or calving, in addition to dipping/spraying navels with iodine, we also sprayed hooves with iodine solution.
Most baby calves I saw coming through the diagnostic lab had navel ill/joint ill - fibrin &/or pus in multiple joints, and fibrin on the surface of internal umbilical arteries...and a significant number also had meningitis.
Probably if we'd had the ability to collect a serum sample before death, it would have indicated a 'failure of passive transfer of maternal antibodies'... meaning: 1) they didn't get any colostrum, 2) they got colostrum too late to absorb it(after 24 hrs), 3) colostrum was poor quality, 4) stressors &/or mismanagement(feeding milk, whiskey, Karo syrup, egg, etc.) caused absorption sites for colostral antibodies in intestinal tract to 'close' - or, in some cases, a combination of two or more of these factors.
Clean calving sites are really important. That fresh, wet umbilical cord is a 'straight shot' right into the circulatory system for bacteria. Additionally, 30 years ago, I sat in on a presentation at an equine conference indicating that a significant number of 'joint ill' cases came from bacteria gaining access to the bloodstream through the soles of foals hooves, as that rubbery eponychium material was rapidly worn off. They confirmed this by 'painting' colostrum-deprived newborn foals' hooves with specific bacterial cultures, and then isolating that specific bacterium from affected joints. Evidence was convincing enough to me and my wife (also a DVM) that from that point forward, if we were attending a foaling or calving, in addition to dipping/spraying navels with iodine, we also sprayed hooves with iodine solution.
Thanks.
I am thinking our mineral program has help with naval infection prevention as we haven't put iodine on a naval in 30 years, calve on the same 140 acres year and this, show sh!+ and slop is not the most sterile environment.
We do get 3 to 5 infections annually but one learns to detect them early and treat before it becomes joint ill.
