Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

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I have family that's been in the packing house business as long as I can remember, and I have butchered calves for my use from all breeds, CAB is a marketing strategy, my kin will tell you other breeds grade as good or better than angus, the way you can really tell this is a fraud is they wouldn't let red angus as CAB until recently, they are the same except for the hide color?
I think it's not right other good breeds of cattle get docked because of the color of their hide.
How many different breeds do they grade as CAB?
We will never know.


Well, I did look at that, actually. I think originally around my place the Red Angus were all typically smaller framed and the bulls weighed less than the blacks. So I think the discounts were as much about frame size as anything else. But seems like the red angus breeders have made the red angus cattle about the same size as the blacks around my place, so the discount isn't as bad.

But I'm still paranoid enough that, after I finish using my red angus heifer bull, I'll try to get a black angus unless the numbers don't pencil.
 
If CAB went away, I don't believe colored calves will bring any more at all, they're bringing what they're worth, black calves will just go down due to a premium loss.( Wishing for that to happen is kind of like wanting high money earners to be penalized by pay massively higher tax rates just because they make more money and you don't so you don't think it's fair). To willingly not go for the premium price, despite all the rhetoric about the others are just as good, is to give yourself a "dock" because you don't like black calves, don't choose the stock to create black calves or you aren't interested in earning a premium or you're just trying to make a point.

It happens in a lot of livestock venues.

We show cow horses, a lot of times there is an added bonus for Texas bred horses in our region that is paid by the TQHA.

Does that mean I get "docked" for a LA bred horse, or does that mean that by letting my mare foal in Stonewall LA instead of Huntsville Tx at my daughters place I chose to have a horse that doesn't qualify.

My horse could have won the event and beat the TX bred horses, in fact 1st and reserve could be won by an out of state horse but I still don't get the bonus, the TX bred horse will. I didn't get "docked", I didn't qualify for the premium and however they created the premium didn't matter. I didn't meet the criteria

I think many people on this site are just rebels at heart, perhaps. There have to be good things about CAB. After all, good adverts and marketing does help the entire beef industry.

I wonder if any enterprising Ph.D. student has ever done a cost-benefits analysis of the different types of cattle operations that you could do, based on location and starting capital. I bet a lot of what we often rehash would be put to rest.

I think one of the main things I've learned, though, is that the US market (or markets) is/are one of the most efficient and best run cattle markets in the world. And whatever type of cattle you want, you can pretty much get them. Or, if you are really out there, the system will support you as much as is feasible in support of your dream.

That's actually pretty special and cattlemen should be thankful for it.
 
Jerseys are very good beef....and they do mature/finish faster and do marble good... Jersey angus crosses are meatier and it negates some of the yellow fat look... but most jersey angus crosses are smaller and probably will not do as good on a feedlot situation as the holstein angus crosses. There is a program that encourages Jerseys to be bred to Limi and simmental bulls... more body and muscle than the average angus jersey cross. See alot of it here with the dairies I test... and the "black hostein/beef cross" baby calves are bringing $400-500 a head....

And yes, dairy/beef cross black calves will grade and fit into the CAB program... regardless of what "black" the bulls are....
 
Jerseys are very good beef....and they do mature/finish faster and do marble good... Jersey angus crosses are meatier and it negates some of the yellow fat look... but most jersey angus crosses are smaller and probably will not do as good on a feedlot situation as the holstein angus crosses. There is a program that encourages Jerseys to be bred to Limi and simmental bulls... more body and muscle than the average angus jersey cross. See alot of it here with the dairies I test... and the "black hostein/beef cross" baby calves are bringing $400-500 a head....

And yes, dairy/beef cross black calves will grade and fit into the CAB program... regardless of what "black" the bulls are....

Cannot support you on the Jersey comment!

But it's been proven by the market that the beef/Holstein crosses are almost as good as CAB. It seems that, like the Corrientes, someone figured out the right bull genetics to make the calves really good.

Can't imagine feeding out a Jersey would be efficient, BTW. But no real experience.
 
On the subject of covering the "little spots" like the LH cow in the post by @crossbreed . You find this pattern the most in LHs. Not so much in pure Corriente. Corrs wil have more of a "paint" pattern. Much like the Herf/Hol @MurraysMutts has. Or the Herf/Guresney I have. Most Corrs that aren't a shade of brown/tan. or black, or white, will look like those. Corss can have a coat that looks like a red-faced Hereford, or like the red & white Simms had, or a Guernsey, or Holstein. Usually when the little spots get in them, they have had some LH blood infused in them somewhere. None of our Mexican Corrs were "roan", but the ones we had that were, were US cattle. A lot of people would cross the Corrs with LH for faster, bigger bull dogging steers. Booger Barter would use them as "prize steers" in his competitions.
The first cattle the Spaniards brought, were most likely solid colored. As they dispersed, we saw that those along the southern coast....Fla, Ala, Miss, LA, etc... tended to evolve horns that grew narrow and up, rather than wide and long, like the LHs. As these cattle dispersed across the nation, and as pioneers settled across the west, they brought their milk cows with them, including Shorthorn and Ayrshires....both of which display a lot of roan-ing coats. And that is how that color got into the wild Longhorns. Fla Scrubs and Crackers, and Pineywoods cattle.. Corriente, not so much. Not saying there are NO Corrs with the "little spots", just not so prevalent as in LHs.

I have talked about Clay's boss who feeds out 900-1000 1/2 Brangus each year, He has 400 cows of his own, probably 390 of them pure Corr. He will use about 395 average a year in his program. He also provides bulls to several out fits in Florida which have mostly Fla Scrub/Cracker, and buys the calves at 6 mos old. He buys about 600 a year, and often only 500-550 go into his program. He only uses the solid black and polled calves for his deal where he sends them to the Oklahoma feed lot. Sometimes you might see one or two in his feed lots with a white star. We had one LH/Watusi cross, that often produced a black, but scurred calf. Hard to overcome that African Horn gene. And we had a Pineywoods cow, that was black with white roan-ing on her belly and up on her flank a little. A lot of her calves had that too, just not as much as she did. Everything else we had, from 100-120 a year, was polled and black, using the bulls we do, and 90% of the cows being Corr.
Again, I think the main part of this debate is that you have to get the right bull. If I was going to buy 10 Corrientes for my place, I'd spend at least 3500 on an ultra black bull. Would buy replacements and try to get 6 years out of the bull if he threw the right calves.
 
If that's true it's like a stake in the heart of every cattleman that works hard to make their animals the best... and are getting docked because their animals aren't black.
Well, look at it from the poor cattleman's prospective. Buy colored cows and put a black bull on them:). I love RWF mommas. They are pretty. And they can have black calves.

At least it gives the little guy a way in, is all I'm saying.
 
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Did you look at the article? It has a picture and some data on a simangus x holstein. Does not look that bad. Holsteins have very good marbling. An animal that meets the carcass data requirements of CAB is going to be good eating. Cull dairy cows go to slaughter along with true beef cows. What do you see wrong with this steer?
Is that steer representative of all dairy x beef? I don't know.

View attachment 39162
I'd love to have a bull that looked like that…
 
Most feedlots could care less what colour and animal is as long as it has the ability to grow and finish in the shortest time possible. If there is a premium at the end all the better.. They are concerned with profit first and foremost.

One told me for performance it was still hard to beat a British x Charolais calf in the lot, if they graded well then so much the better.
True in Texas for sure.

I think the Angus x Charolais have actually been shown to be more efficient than the Hereford x Angus, but I can't remember where I saw that.

If I was up north, I think that's the cross I'd want for my terminal calves.

But down in the Hill Country of Texas the cows are just too big to make that work efficiently.

Texas feedlots tend to only care about efficiency in making their dollar, too, They don't care how they grade for the most part.

Difference between the corn belt and the south, I think.
 
My cousin retains ownership on thousands of head of feeders, owns over 1000 mama cows, he has buyers buying everyday in the week there is a sale, he prefers charolais, charolais x, he has mainly charolais bulls.
Back in the eighties, simmental bulls were the rage, I would go to the sale and talk to the older ranchers and they would say you can't beat simmental bulls, I owned some too, now you don't see them in our parts anymore when they use to be everywhere.
 
My cousin retains ownership on thousands of head of feeders, owns over 1000 mama cows, he has buyers buying everyday in the week there is a sale, he prefers charolais, charolais x, he has mainly charolais bulls.
Back in the eighties, simmental bulls were the rage, I would go to the sale and talk to the older ranchers and they would say you can't beat simmental bulls, I owned some too, now you don't see them in our parts anymore when they use to be everywhere.
They just don't work in Texas, IMO. Seems like they need cold. They are all over Canada, though, I think.
 
Thought that would be cause he's on soft wet ground at the feed yard. Thought the dry wet cycles of the ranch would be able to trim those. Never seen a hoof problem on any of the cows on my place, even when we leased it out for years. Pretty rocky, so hooves stay worn… But I don't really know about hooves and feed lots.
 
True in Texas for sure.

I think the Angus x Charolais have actually been shown to be more efficient than the Hereford x Angus, but I can't remember where I saw that.

If I was up north, I think that's the cross I'd want for my terminal calves.

But down in the Hill Country of Texas the cows are just too big to make that work efficiently.

Texas feedlots tend to only care about efficiency in making their dollar, too, They don't care how they grade for the most part.

Difference between the corn belt and the south, I think.
Yes cows do get big in the hill country.
I bought a place in the northern hill country/ cross plains eco region, I let some people run cows on it, they run red and black angus cattle, I am amazed at the condition of these cattle even during the drought, the last two years have been a bumper crop of mesquite beans, even the deer are so fat they have sort of a shine to them.
 

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