Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

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Stonewall Joe said:
Why is making money unscroupulous? If someone bought these cattle took them home and lost money make them more honorable?
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Well apparently it's hard for some people to understand that there are ways to make money that provide value, and those that don't provide value. In fact they destroy value.

There is no doubt that it is the responsibility of a buyer to be responsible for their decisions. But that does not take any responsibility away from the seller.

People that use con games to intentionally sell an inferior product dressed up as a superior product. Many of these kinds of sales are illegal and covered under consumer protection laws. But the law can't cover everything. Just because some slimy practice can slide under the radar doesn't make it right.
 
Travlr said:
Well apparently it's hard for some people to understand that there are ways to make money that provide value, and those that don't provide value. In fact they destroy value.

There is no doubt that it is the responsibility of a buyer to be responsible for their decisions. But that does not take any responsibility away from the seller.

People that use con games to intentionally sell an inferior product dressed up as a superior product. Many of these kinds of sales are illegal and covered under consumer protection laws. But the law can't cover everything. Just because some slimy practice can slide under the radar doesn't make it right.
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So, we take a load of the weaned calves to the barn, Friday evening or Friday night before the sale. We unload them, the boys tag them, and give us a receipt. Monday or Tuesday, we go to the barn and pick up the check. So, what is the con? Where is the "inferior product dressed up as a superior product? What is illegal about it?
 
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How to stop the "slimy practices" and "illegal sales"? Reckon we need government regulations to keep cattle people "honest"? (Should be pretty easy to answer that.)

What would those regulations be? Government sets the approved breeds that can be used depending on their purpose? Certain breeds for eating. Certain breeds for milking? Certain breeds for rodeo and entertainment? Everything else goes to a zoo? Maybe allow some differences based on location? Cross into an adjacent region and your cattle are not approved there? Maybe the government would only allow angus for eating since they have heard of them and that lobby group probably has money. I bet no crossbred bulls would be allowed. Probably gonna need papers on any cattle sold. If not breed papers, probably lots of paperwork. Maybe a USDA guy would be present to set the price so that imposter cattle are priced fairly. Just need to allocate some money for the program.

Or maybe we should stick with the current system with freedom to choose our cattle and buy and sell as we please. Encourage and reward people who can evaluate cattle and make good economic decisions for themselves - however they define that. Let the imperfect market set the price.

Maybe the government should dictate how we call and work cattle. Maybe a stockmanship certification. I need to think about that one.
 
gcreekrch said:
Then come up with some real number facts from your own herd, maybe add some pictures!
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Scroll up to post #189. Dunno how anyone could post anymore detailed facts and figures than that. It is the exact same facts and figures that you post, like in the tale about the steers gaining 5 lbs a day! Don't have any idea about our own herd, just what they brought per pound at weaning. And since 2020, I have posted that every time we sold some.

I actually did get pictures on Tuesday of his next bunch shipping out in January. And, I asked Clay to see if Mike's wife would give him a copy of that last feed bill with Mike's info and the lot's info blacked out. And she did. But, we were talking last night, and Clay made a good point. If I posted those pics, the troll's like you, Scooter and Skippy would try to say they were Simms. Or were older than what they were. And the same with the feed bill....one of the trolls would say it was photoshopped pr something. I DO NOT, and have NEVER, answered to anybody or for anybody, and I ain't about to start now.
 
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simme said:
How to stop the "slimy practices" and "illegal sales"? Reckon we need government regulations to keep cattle people "honest"? (Should be pretty easy to answer that.)

What would those regulations be? Government sets the approved breeds that can be used depending on their purpose? Certain breeds for eating. Certain breeds for milking? Certain breeds for rodeo and entertainment? Everything else goes to a zoo? Maybe allow some differences based on location? Cross into an adjacent region and your cattle are not approved there? Maybe the government would only allow angus for eating since they have heard of them and that lobby group probably has money. I bet no crossbred bulls would be allowed. Probably gonna need papers on any cattle sold. If not breed papers, probably lots of paperwork. Maybe a USDA guy would be present to set the price so that imposter cattle are priced fairly. Just need to allocate some money for the program.

Or maybe we should stick with the current system with freedom to choose our cattle and buy and sell as we please. Encourage and reward people who can evaluate cattle and make good economic decisions for themselves - however they define that. Let the imperfect market set the price.

Maybe the government should dictate how we call and work cattle. Maybe a stockmanship certification. I need to think about that one.
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I think you're missing the point.

Good people don't need government intrusion to manage their moral behavior. Good people work hard to provide a product with reliable value and don't need oversight. But there are people that don't provide value... instead finding and using ways to fleece good people by providing a product that only looks like it is good, but eventually fails to meet expectations.

There are all kinds of cons going on. Lead in applesauce was recently in the news. The people making the product (marketed to be used for kid's snacks) intentionally sourcing their cinnamon cheaper regardless of them knowing it had very high levels of lead.

Walmart intentionally resells products that were returned defective. There are companies that intentionally buy tech products that turned out to be unreliable so they can sell them. Fake car warranties that will never pay out. I'll bet you know some that I don't.

So yeah... we have choices to make. We can keep our mouths shut when we see products being sold that can hurt people, or we can speak up and call them out for what they are.

Your decision which side of that line you want to be on.
 
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simme said:
How to stop the "slimy practices" and "illegal sales"? Reckon we need government regulations to keep cattle people "honest"? (Should be pretty easy to answer that.)

What would those regulations be? Government sets the approved breeds that can be used depending on their purpose? Certain breeds for eating. Certain breeds for milking? Certain breeds for rodeo and entertainment? Everything else goes to a zoo? Maybe allow some differences based on location? Cross into an adjacent region and your cattle are not approved there? Maybe the government would only allow angus for eating since they have heard of them and that lobby group probably has money. I bet no crossbred bulls would be allowed. Probably gonna need papers on any cattle sold. If not breed papers, probably lots of paperwork. Maybe a USDA guy would be present to set the price so that imposter cattle are priced fairly. Just need to allocate some money for the program.

Or maybe we should stick with the current system with freedom to choose our cattle and buy and sell as we please. Encourage and reward people who can evaluate cattle and make good economic decisions for themselves - however they define that. Let the imperfect market set the price.

Maybe the government should dictate how we call and work cattle. Maybe a stockmanship certification. I need to think about that one.
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Don't give them any ideas, they would just love to put the little guy out of business. They would regulate probably 90% of us out of business.
 
Travlr said:
I think you're missing the point.

Good people don't need government intrusion to manage their moral behavior. Good people work hard to provide a product with reliable value and don't need oversight. But there are people that don't provide value... instead finding and using ways to fleece good people by providing a product that only looks like it is good, but eventually fails to meet expectations.

There are all kinds of cons going on. Lead in applesauce was recently in the news. The people making the product (marketed to be used for kid's snacks) intentionally sourcing their cinnamon cheaper regardless of them knowing it had very high levels of lead.

Walmart intentionally resells products that were returned defective. There are companies that intentionally buy tech products that turned out to be unreliable so they can sell them. Fake car warranties that will never pay out. I'll bet you know some that I don't.

So yeah... we have choices to make. We can keep our mouths shut when we see products being sold that can hurt people, or we can speak up and call them out for what they are.

Your decision which side of that line you want to be on.
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Well, your speaking up sure hasn't slowed the ever-increasing demand for Criolo type cattle to breed to beef bulls! I WISH it would! You know what you should do...being the moral champion of the cattle world...saving the masses from getting fleeced and all? You should film a PSA! You have time to do one and get it on the air during the Super Bowl! 100's of milllions would see it! Hell, I...the Darth Vador of the industry...would volunteer to appear on it too. I would get on there, confessing that I have been THE EVIL ONE for 30 years, and tell people you CAN NOT breed a Criolo type cow to a black bull and get a black polled calf. I will confess that what Scott and I really do, is load the 100-120 calves up, take them around to the swamp beside our place, and knock them in the head and throw them to the gators! Them we secretly go up to his brother's place, get a load of his Black Simm/Chi-Angus/Brangus calves, and carry them to the sale, I will beg and plead...for the good of our country... for people to QUIT buying these cows! I sincerely wish everyone jumping on this band wagon would jump off today! I mean, unless you believe that @MurraysMutts is also a liar and a part of this Great Fleecing of the poor "professional cattle buyers" too, we in the underground business CAN NOT pay $2k+ for Corriente pairs, and keep this scam going for much longer!

And while you are in the studio filming, you really ought to make another PSA, exposing the GREAT CAB Conspiracy! Wow, people would call you The Cowboy Whistle Blower!
 
simme said:
How to stop the "slimy practices" and "illegal sales"? Reckon we need government regulations to keep cattle people "honest"? (Should be pretty easy to answer that.)

What would those regulations be? Government sets the approved breeds that can be used depending on their purpose? Certain breeds for eating. Certain breeds for milking? Certain breeds for rodeo and entertainment? Everything else goes to a zoo? Maybe allow some differences based on location? Cross into an adjacent region and your cattle are not approved there? Maybe the government would only allow angus for eating since they have heard of them and that lobby group probably has money. I bet no crossbred bulls would be allowed. Probably gonna need papers on any cattle sold. If not breed papers, probably lots of paperwork. Maybe a USDA guy would be present to set the price so that imposter cattle are priced fairly. Just need to allocate some money for the program.

Or maybe we should stick with the current system with freedom to choose our cattle and buy and sell as we please. Encourage and reward people who can evaluate cattle and make good economic decisions for themselves - however they define that. Let the imperfect market set the price.

Maybe the government should dictate how we call and work cattle. Maybe a stockmanship certification. I need to think about that one.
Click to expand...
What the government needs to do, I guess is, to outlaw sales like they have out west, where dozens, , maybe 100's, of cattle are run thought the ring as a group. They need to make it a law that all cattle are sold one at a time. And, unless it is a registered sale, the owner of every commercial calf that comes in the ring..one at a time...must stand up and declare what all breeds are in the makeup of each animal...stating the percentage of each breed. And the sale barn will be required to hold the check, until a DNA test is done to verify the info you stated.
 
I must admit, the thought has occurred to me, that we all do the same thing. Many many folks suggest I run a black bull on my crossbred cows that I like so much. To IMPROVE upon what I have. Make a more UNIFORM group of calves.
Tho I'll admit, I've only had one "Corriente"
The one I took the horns off of. Even bought a fancy set of pruners to do the specific job. Did the same with her calf. When I sold her a couple months later she brought a LOT more than I gave for her. Was it because she didn't look "as Corriente" anymore? Did I deceive someone? Or was it just what the market would bear???

Maybe I just got lucky and there was that two particular people showed up that day who wanted just exactly what I was selling.... with no mention of what she was or anything. Just a quick few seconds in the ring and an auctioneer saying look here folks, ya get what ya see!
 
MurraysMutts said:
I must admit, the thought has occurred to me, that we all do the same thing. Many many folks suggest I run a black bull on my crossbred cows that I like so much. To IMPROVE upon what I have. Make a more UNIFORM group of calves.
Tho I'll admit, I've only had one "Corriente"
The one I took the horns off of. Even bought a fancy set of pruners to do the specific job. Did the same with her calf. When I sold her a couple months later she brought a LOT more than I gave for her. Was it because she didn't look "as Corriente" anymore? Did I deceive someone? Or was it just what the market would bear???

Maybe I just got lucky and there was that two particular people showed up that day who wanted just exactly what I was selling.... with no mention of what she was or anything. Just a quick few seconds in the ring and an auctioneer saying look here folks, ya get what ya see!
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You made a profit by adding value, that is the name of the game. When you preach about it as the very best and easiest way to turn a profit I will repo your cheese.:cool:
 
MurraysMutts said:
I must admit, the thought has occurred to me, that we all do the same thing. Many many folks suggest I run a black bull on my crossbred cows that I like so much. To IMPROVE upon what I have. Make a more UNIFORM group of calves.
Tho I'll admit, I've only had one "Corriente"
The one I took the horns off of. Even bought a fancy set of pruners to do the specific job. Did the same with her calf. When I sold her a couple months later she brought a LOT more than I gave for her. Was it because she didn't look "as Corriente" anymore? Did I deceive someone? Or was it just what the market would bear???

Maybe I just got lucky and there was that two particular people showed up that day who wanted just exactly what I was selling.... with no mention of what she was or anything. Just a quick few seconds in the ring and an auctioneer saying look here folks, ya get what ya see!
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ROFLMAO! Well, according to Scooter, Skippy, and a couple more of the trolls, you should have stood up, interrupted the sale, and said " Hey, those are Corrientes that I de-horned"
 
when is this stew gonna be ready we've been stirring it so long i think ill settle for a sheet sandwich! ive got beef cows and corriente cows both, ive only had corrientes for about 3 years so im still learning the hard way for myself on how they will work out $$$. anyway if anyone has any real questions about them id love to answer them and if someone asks something i dont know about then ill just tell you flat out i dont know! i wont bs you and start telling tales. they have some definate advantages and disadvantages that much i do know!
 
MtnCows93 said:
when is this stew gonna be ready we've been stirring it so long i think ill settle for a sheet sandwich! ive got beef cows and corriente cows both, ive only had corrientes for about 3 years so im still learning the hard way for myself on how they will work out $$$. anyway if anyone has any real questions about them id love to answer them and if someone asks something i dont know about then ill just tell you flat out i dont know! i wont bs you and start telling tales. they have some definate advantages and disadvantages that much i do know!
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I've got a question.

When you use a good European bull on them, at what weight do the steers mature? Do they ever get much over a thousand pounds and if so, how old are they?
 
Wish I had a better picture or two. But the pair was hard to catch. We had to drive them to them pen come catch day with 2 4-wheelers.
But there was no mistaking the calf. Her rear end gave it away. When I sold em of coarse the cow was a couple more months bred. And maybe in slightly better condition. The calf did grow good for the couple months I had her. And neither one of em would come eat feed!
Screenshot_20231229-181148_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20231229-181117_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20231229-181111_Gallery.jpg
The day I unloaded em to familiarize with the feed troughs. Only time they were ever in the pen aside from catch day. I couldn't tell you age or weight aside from cow was called 3 or 4 months bred when sold. So the calf was small in my opinion for her age, with a large head and noassatall...
They sold as a 3n1 pair.
I just told the guys sell how ya think they'll do best.
 
Travlr said:
I've got a question.

When you use a good European bull on them, at what weight do the steers mature? Do they ever get much over a thousand pounds and if so, how old are they?
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so far i have only ever just weaned them off the cow and took them straight to the salebarn. i keep track of their ages and sell all my calves when they are 8 to 9 months old, i know what they weigh then but dont know the kill weight ends up being. i am keeping 2 this year to process so i will know what they do next year
 

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