Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[crossbreed]

Longhorn aren't what we're trying to determine mature weights on, but that's still interesting info.

I'm asking the question about Corriente because I want to know what a crossbred calf from a mature 600/700 pound cow will mature at and how long it will take.

Understand, I should have qualified that they are similar but a little bigger cow(1k) and mature slower. Many people however prefer that meat so this is a good product not just a dishonest market. Good buyers buying for feeders spot these crosses and discount accordingly. I don't see deception

 

[gcreekrch]

Here's what Corrientes x Charolais looks like.

Dehorning when they a few weeks old will add value to them….. Horns cost everyone money but ropers.

 

[MtnCows93]

Only ones I have had with scurs, were some LH crosses that had Watusi blood. All our calves have been black. If your black ones that have white and spots on them don't bring as much as the solid blacks, then all your Charolais will bring even lower. Longhorn, Corriente, Fla Scrub, Fla Cracker, and Pineywoods cattle are all the same breed really, or descended from the same Spanish stock brought to the Americas 500 years ago. as they became feral and dispersed over the continent, the ones that stayed in Florida and the southern coast developed narrower horns that grow vertical. The one shat moved north and west into Texas and the plains states grew bigger bigger bodies,. The ones that migrated into Mexico and points south grew smaller. in body size, ,etc. In any of those breeds you will find every color and pattern there is in cattle, because every kind of cow that came to America afterwards, would go feral, or be turned loose with the herds of feral Criolo. You will see them that look the same color as, and with the same markings as: Jeresy, Brown Swiss, Guernsey, Holstein, Hereford, Shorthorn, Angus...you name it. The only ones we ever got more white...not solid black.... would sometimes be calves from the small spots or roans, like Short Horns . What age are you weaning at?

8 to 9 months

 

[Warren Allison]

I think Charolais bulls are one of the best crosses for Corriente cows and probably even Longhorns. They add weight and muscle but also all of them will sell as Charolais cross. With some black bulls you still can get spots.

I disagree, at least down here. You are correct that "all of them will sell as Charolais cross". And none of them will be black. 10 Corr cows, bred to a stockyard, commercial Angus bull, may have 2 of the 10 that will get the so-called "non-black dock" due to some white markings or roaning. But with the Charolais, all 10 will. And yes, I believe the Charolais calves might wean 50 lbs or more heavier. With a handfull of Corrs as an experiment, say 8, would the 400 or more lbs of weaning weight help make up for the 20-30 cent a lb "dock" ? A 400 lb black steer may bring $3 a lb ---$1200. A 450 lb off color may bring $2.75.. $1238. $304 more on 8. On 100 cows like we do, that could be $3800.... a strong incentive. Now, you get a lot more scurs and horns with the Charolais. But then again, most people do not buy Angus bulls from @gizmom , or buy semen from the top angus bulls on the market. And like my friend Dan, herd master and breeding manager for the huge Rollins family Charolais operation says, nobody with Corriente cows is buying our 5 and 6 figure bulls to breed with either. No one (except us.....because it doesn't cost us anything to use them. If I had to buy 6 of these $5k to $10k bulls, I'd have $30 to $60k worth of bulls on a $30-$40k cow herd.) is using the caliber of Brangus bulls we do on Corr cows. If we had tp buy them, we wouldn't be using them either. Registered, homozygous for polled Charolais would probably yield less horns or scurs, though.

So, what is your opinion on using homo for black and polled Black Simm? Or even a SimmAngus like the one Clinch bought from Simme, rather than Charolais?"

If I get that herd bought out of Mexico, (or others) I am seriously considering using Scott's brother's Black Simm bulls come Easter. Or maybe some of his F1 Black Simm x Chi-Angus. I have been thinking about this for a while, since seeing the bull @Jeanne - Simme Valley used for a clean-up this time, and the bulls y'all got from @simme. When those 22 Plummers have those Chi-angus calves in Feb, I have been planning on breeding them back to Brangus. Because I am pretty much sure we will have some Corr cows in with them on the Kudzu place by then. But if we don't have any bought, I would rather breed them to a Simm, Chi-Ang, or F1. It has occurred to me that if Corrs are successfully calving Charolais calves, that they would have no trouble with a Simm or Chi-Ang either. Your thoughts?

 

[kenny thomas]

I have used homozygous black and polled Simmental bulls this year. I cant guarantee no spots even if i can guarantee no reds. If i had all Longhorn or Corriente cows i would switch to a very good Charolais bull. Here the discount for Charolais cross is not much. Much less than if i got spots.

 

[Warren Allison]

Longhorn aren't what we're trying to determine mature weights on, but that's still interesting info.

I'm asking the question about Corriente because I want to know what a crossbred calf from a mature 600/700 pound cow will mature at and how long it will take.

You will probably call me a liar, crook etc again., if you even read it. I think I saw where you blocked me. But, in the 30 something years I have done these, I would guess 90% of the cows we used were straight Corriente. We have had some Longhorns., Pineywoods, Florida Scrubs and Florida Cracker cattle too. As well as various and sundry crosses of the 5 breeds. Never had the registered, show-type LHs with the 10 foot spreads and weighing 1200 or more, like the 15 yr olds you see that they parade down the streets at Fort Worth. And the mature Corr cows are bigger, fatter, and weigh more than the long yearlings you will see at rodeos and ropings. But honestly, without looking at the ear tags and matching them up with Momma, At weaning we couldn't tell you which kinda cow was their momma. More difference in size and weight between those born 1st of February and last of February (and depending which of the 5 or 6 bulls got them) than there is between the breeds their mommas were. We never kept up with it because it didn't really matter to our operation. We would have had to stood there when they put the stickers on them at the sale, write down each ones ear tag number and the sticker number. Then when we got the check, take the listing they give you with the check, find out what each calf weighed in the ring, and match that to its ear tag number. Then, maybe we had wrote the breed down when we tagged the mommas, or we might not have. I know we didn't all of them we ever had. On the ones where we didn't write her breed down with her tag number, we'd have to ride out to the cattle, look for the ear tag number, see what kind she was, write it down, then go back to the house or barn or somewhere, and match the calf on the receipt to her. We just don't need that info, like we would if we had a nornal cow-calf operation with real beef cattle.

 

[rocfarm]

Dehorning when they a few weeks old will add value to them….. Horns cost everyone money but ropers.

My experience with cattle has been that buying the cheapest healthy-looking females at market you can get will make you the most money. At auction you seem to primarily be a trader, unless your cattle are close to the best there are, at least in your area. Then you are more like a service provider. So where you guys are missing each other I think is this:

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO. For those who already are doing well, the model usually depends on what one wants to do at the moment. Or, for those elite out there, the ones who are savvy enough to understand the current state of the market and know how to calculate IRR to a tenth of a percent, I suspect.

Those who have $$$ backing or long-term experience might want to remember that everyone doesn't start out with $$$ to buy the best of everything. The cheaper ones have their problems, for sure. The horns, for example. My most profitable cow was $450. She's crazy, though, and I got her cheap because she's crazy. But she has had two bull calves in the 15 months that I have had her and she has only cost me about about $210 in grazing cost and $75 in protein and minerals, and $200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow. Since I'm paying myself the last 200, I figure I've done well on her.

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap. Warren does have a point about Corrientes. They tend not to die. My dad swore up and down that that cow up above was gonna die. They weaned her at about 2 months or something in the winter. She just kept chugging, got bred on time and had her first calf on time. Not bad. But if it had gone south, a $400 cow that dies on you is a lot less expensive than a $2000 that dies on you. Just saying.

 

[rocfarm]

Dehorning when they a few weeks old will add value to them….. Horns cost everyone money but ropers.

Agree. If you are 30, in shape, and can run 100 yards in about 12 seconds and have good facilities and a good knowledge of bull genetics, it would seem from the videos that you can make some real money. But I'm definitely wanting to move up to the 'I got standards' bracket. Not as young as I used to be.

 

[Warren Allison]

My experience with cattle has been that buying the cheapest healthy-looking females at market you can get will make you the most money. At auction you seem to primarily be a trader, unless your cattle are close to the best there are, at least in your area. Then you are more like a service provider. So where you guys are missing each other I think is this:

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO. For those who already are doing well, the model usually depends on what one wants to do at the moment. Or, for those elite out there, the ones who are savvy enough to understand the current state of the market and know how to calculate IRR to a tenth of a percent, I suspect.

Those who have $$$ backing or long-term experience might want to remember that everyone doesn't start out with $$$ to buy the best of everything. The cheaper ones have their problems, for sure. The horns, for example. My most profitable cow was $450. She's crazy, though, and I got her cheap because she's crazy. But she has had two bull calves in the 15 months that I have had her and she has only cost me about about $210 in grazing cost and $75 in protein and minerals, and $200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow. Since I'm paying myself the last 200, I figure I've done well on her.

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap. Warren does have a point about Corrientes. They tend not to die. My dad swore up and down that that cow up above was gonna die. They weaned her at about 2 months or something in the winter. She just kept chugging, got bred on time and had her first calf on time. Not bad. But if it had gone south, a $400 cow that dies on you is a lot less expensive than a $2000 that dies on you. Just saying.

Very well thought out post, @rocfarm. You get it! Your are right. If you have a $2k cow that gives you a $1500 calf to sell, in 6 mos, and you fertilize her pasture, fertilize hay to feed her, cut, bale, haul, and store it, and worm, Vaccinate, other vet bills, and perhaps feed, supplements, etc., and..... if you have a $400 cow that costs you NO other inputs, that gives you a $1200 calf to sell in 6 mos, then the latter is more profitable. Buy FIVE of the $400 cows instead of the ONE $2k cow...still with no inputs. Then you make $6k- $400 in net profit. and next year you make the whole $6k in net profit. With the $2k cow, you are at a loss the first year, and only make $1500 minus input costs on the next calves. But, even as lucrative as this is, still the most money... gross as well as net profit.... is in buying and selling. But you'd have to have money, like you said, to start doing it and to be able to sustain through the losses you will have as you learn.

There are a handful of kids that have been at my barn over the years, just wanting to be around horses, and want so bad to have their own. These 4 or 5, maybe 6 kids, were from families that had some land, some pasture, but did not raise cows, and told their kids they couldn't buy them a horses. If they had good fences or could get their fence in good shape, I would give them some Corr heifers Anywhere from just 2 with one of them, to 8 with another. This was back when Corrs may be $200 - $250. I would let them breed to my bulls, but other than that, no other financial help. They would pay me part of the calf sales each year til they got the cows paid for...usually 1 or 2 years,...then they would buy more, get a horse, or both. I'd do it the same way....let them pay me when they sold calves.

Granted, the bulls I have access to and the place I keep them on is a big help. But it will also work with normal pasture and sale barn Angus bulls.
Thanks for your posts!

 

[Warren Allison]

Agree. If you are 30, in shape, and can run 100 yards in about 12 seconds and have good facilities and a good knowledge of bull genetics, it would seem from the videos that you can make some real money. But I'm definitely wanting to move up to the 'I got standards' bracket. Not as young as I used to be.

I have the facilities, and know a little bit about bulls, but I am over twice past 30, and couldn't run 100 yards in 12 minutes. Not all in the same day anyway!!! LOL

Horns are ok by me...they make mine easier to handle the way I handle them, if I need to. Heck of a lot easier to head one around the horns, than around the neck.

Horns and running 100 yds in 12 seconds is not a factor to me. I am never around a cow on foot....always on horseback.

 

[Warren Allison]

I have used homozygous black and polled Simmental bulls this year. I cant guarantee no spots even if i can guarantee no reds. If i had all Longhorn or Corriente cows i would switch to a very good Charolais bull. Here the discount for Charolais cross is not much. Much less than if i got spots.

Can't gurantee them to not have spots with a Char, either. And I'd think a black with spots would bring more than a smokey or pale yellow spotted calf would.
But aside from the color and location issues. as far as the more muscling and weight, etc: Do you think a Simm would do that more, less, or the same?

 

[Brute 23]

My experience with cattle has been that buying the cheapest healthy-looking females at market you can get will make you the most money. At auction you seem to primarily be a trader, unless your cattle are close to the best there are, at least in your area. Then you are more like a service provider. So where you guys are missing each other I think is this:

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO. For those who already are doing well, the model usually depends on what one wants to do at the moment. Or, for those elite out there, the ones who are savvy enough to understand the current state of the market and know how to calculate IRR to a tenth of a percent, I suspect.

Those who have $$$ backing or long-term experience might want to remember that everyone doesn't start out with $$$ to buy the best of everything. The cheaper ones have their problems, for sure. The horns, for example. My most profitable cow was $450. She's crazy, though, and I got her cheap because she's crazy. But she has had two bull calves in the 15 months that I have had her and she has only cost me about about $210 in grazing cost and $75 in protein and minerals, and $200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow. Since I'm paying myself the last 200, I figure I've done well on her.

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap. Warren does have a point about Corrientes. They tend not to die. My dad swore up and down that that cow up above was gonna die. They weaned her at about 2 months or something in the winter. She just kept chugging, got bred on time and had her first calf on time. Not bad. But if it had gone south, a $400 cow that dies on you is a lot less expensive than a $2000 that dies on you. Just saying.

The idea that corrientes are cheaper to get in to and maintain is being greatly exaggerated in this thread. A lot of us have built very nice beef cow herds that were not capital intensive, nor do they require much as far as inputs, and we are producing calves that top the market.

 

[Little Joe]

Longhorn aren't what we're trying to determine mature weights on, but that's still interesting info.

I'm asking the question about Corriente because I want to know what a crossbred calf from a mature 600/700 pound cow will mature at and how long it will take.

The ones I had I called a LH but they weren't true longhorns probably a cross of LH and other criollo type cattle. 3 of them weighed in the neighborhood of 750-800, 1 around 700 and another around 1000. I could get their calves to 1000 lbs by 18 months old and get about a 625lb carcass. That was being on mostly grass until the last 60-90 days.

 

[rocfarm]

The idea that corrientes are cheaper to get in to and maintain is being greatly exaggerated in this thread. A lot of us have built very nice beef cow herds that were not capital intensive, nor do they require much as far as inputs, and we are producing calves that top the market.

Didn't say had to be Corrientes, just said cheaper. But the Corrientes I had was given to me for free. That's pretty cheap! The other cheap cow is a red angus. She was 450 7 months bred. I bought an open rwf at 600 lbs for $600. I bred her to my bull and she lost her calf this last fall. But I sold her two weeks later at 1080lbs and got $1080, so figure I got my money back, even if I didn't profit after grass, protein, and fuel are factored in. Not a bad trade when I had the chance to profit but also limited downside. And the cheapest black angus type cow at the same auction was $1100. At that auction, for $1950, I went home with 4 head: a bwf scurried cow with a corriente type heifer calf, a 7 month bred red angus, and a red white face. If I'd bought the 'better' cattle, it would have been double that. And those 'better' blacks were also other peoples' culls, most likely.

At the auction I sold my cattle at, there were bred heifers weighing about 750 that sold for about $900. They looked sound. Would take them over $1800 angus unbred heifers, for sure. Buy a group, put them on grass and add some weight, keep the ones that do well, sell the others a year later at a heavier weight.

If you look at that video of the Corrientes cattle above, you'll notice that a lot of those cows look to have a good BCS, good bags and sound feet. Not bad cows, and I bet they are efficient. Again, I'd go with those same cheaper cows to start with.

Also, another point I've heard multiple times that if you take a cow from out west and move it over towards the east, many times you'll find those cows do well because they were surviving on much rougher stuff out there, which forces efficiency. I wonder if the Corrientes going Allen's way simply also get a big bump because they are moved to a greener area that actually has rainfall. I believe in the theory enough to know I wouldn't buy cattle in east Texas and move them out to my place. Seems too risky. Another reason to buy your cattle at the local market, BTW. You should get local cattle that fit your area better as a general rule, at least.

My ultimate point is that cheap cows, whether Corrientes or something else, have worked the best for me.

 

[Little Joe]

My experience with cattle has been that buying the cheapest healthy-looking females at market you can get will make you the most money. At auction you seem to primarily be a trader, unless your cattle are close to the best there are, at least in your area. Then you are more like a service provider. So where you guys are missing each other I think is this:

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO. For those who already are doing well, the model usually depends on what one wants to do at the moment. Or, for those elite out there, the ones who are savvy enough to understand the current state of the market and know how to calculate IRR to a tenth of a percent, I suspect.

Those who have $$$ backing or long-term experience might want to remember that everyone doesn't start out with $$$ to buy the best of everything. The cheaper ones have their problems, for sure. The horns, for example. My most profitable cow was $450. She's crazy, though, and I got her cheap because she's crazy. But she has had two bull calves in the 15 months that I have had her and she has only cost me about about $210 in grazing cost and $75 in protein and minerals, and $200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow. Since I'm paying myself the last 200, I figure I've done well on her.

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap. Warren does have a point about Corrientes. They tend not to die. My dad swore up and down that that cow up above was gonna die. They weaned her at about 2 months or something in the winter. She just kept chugging, got bred on time and had her first calf on time. Not bad. But if it had gone south, a $400 cow that dies on you is a lot less expensive than a $2000 that dies on you. Just saying.

This right here. I have a few people that have never owned cattle that want to get into them, I always recommend starting with criollo type cattle. They're cheap to buy, easy to maintain and you'll have to work at killing them and they are forgiving of mistakes. I wish someone had directed me in that direction when I first started, would've saved me some heartache and money.

 

[kenny thomas]

Can't gurantee them to not have spots with a Char, eiother. And I'd think a black with spots would bring more than a smokey or pale yellow spotted calf would.
But aside from the color and location issues. as far as the more muscling and weight, etc: Do you think a Simm would do that more, less, or the same?

I think it can work just as well. Just choose a good muscled bull.
Here a black spotted could bring as much as $1 a pound less. A Charolais will cover the spot better.
One point for people that haven't had this type cow before, a solid black, or solid red is easy to get a solid black calf without spots. A cow with large spots is almost as easy. In a cow with small multiple spots it is much harder to cover up the spots.

 

[Travlr]

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

Yup...

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO.

I've never paid more than market prices for my animals and always had cattle that compared to the people that paid more. The trick is to KNOW what good cattle are and be willing to be patient enough to buy when they become available. The $$$ in my pocket was there because I didn't jump on the cheap cows that were the first in the ring and I waited until something better came in. Just like many things in life, you have a competitive advantage if you develop an ability, in this case an eye for good animals.

$200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow.

Been there, done that...

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap.

I've definitely seen more people that spent themselves out of business than those that cheaped themselves out of business. But I've seen both. There is a finer line between being financially viable and being so cheap that you can't do what is necessary to maintain your operation and we see a lot of the cheap ones selling starved cattle on the Craigslist thread. Nothing wrong with being cautious and avoiding big expenses, but a few pennies a pound and a few minutes of patience can be the difference between poor cattle and good cattle. Wise spending and patience has kept as many people in business as any amount of hard work.

 

[Brute 23]

Didn't say had to be Corrientes, just said cheaper. But the Corrientes I had was given to me for free. That's pretty cheap! The other cheap cow is a red angus. She was 450 7 months bred. I bought an open rwf at 600 lbs for $600. I bred her to my bull and she lost her calf this last fall. But I sold her two weeks later at 1080lbs and got $1080, so figure I got my money back, even if I didn't profit after grass, protein, and fuel are factored in. Not a bad trade when I had the chance to profit but also limited downside. And the cheapest black angus type cow at the same auction was $1100. At that auction, for $1950, I went home with 4 head: a bwf scurried cow with a corriente type heifer calf, a 7 month bred red angus, and a red white face. If I'd bought the 'better' cattle, it would have been double that. And those 'better' blacks were also other peoples' culls, most likely.

At the auction I sold my cattle at, there were bred heifers weighing about 750 that sold for about $900. They looked sound. Would take them over $1800 angus unbred heifers, for sure. Buy a group, put them on grass and add some weight, keep the ones that do well, sell the others a year later at a heavier weight.

If you look at that video of the Corrientes cattle above, you'll notice that a lot of those cows look to have a good BCS, good bags and sound feet. Not bad cows, and I bet they are efficient. Again, I'd go with those same cheaper cows to start with.

Also, another point I've heard multiple times that if you take a cow from out west and move it over towards the east, many times you'll find those cows do well because they were surviving on much rougher stuff out there, which forces efficiency. I wonder if the Corrientes going Allen's way simply also get a big bump because they are moved to a greener area that actually has rainfall. I believe in the theory enough to know I wouldn't buy cattle in east Texas and move them out to my place. Seems too risky. Another reason to buy your cattle at the local market, BTW. You should get local cattle that fit your area better as a general rule, at least.

My ultimate point is that cheap cows, whether Corrientes or something else, have worked the best for me.

No one is debating that money can be made on all types of cattle. There are tons of ways to make money on cattle.

The discussions have all been about the accuracy of the info being given.

Some people have given very good info that lays out realistic expectations... some have not.

 

[gcreekrch]

My experience with cattle has been that buying the cheapest healthy-looking females at market you can get will make you the most money. At auction you seem to primarily be a trader, unless your cattle are close to the best there are, at least in your area. Then you are more like a service provider. So where you guys are missing each other I think is this:

1) You can make money if you have an eye for 'cheaper' cattle that are still sound and know how to put the right bull on them to slant the calves towards the market in your area.

2) You can make money if you have the best quality cattle around that fit your area and a good reputation. This model is less reactive to a bad market than the above model, but is way more capital intensive in most cases (almost demands the feeding of hay, cubes, etc).

3) You can make money if you buy sickly, poorly cared for/managed cattle cheap and know how to get them back into shape, add some weight, and even get them bred.

The model one chooses depends, for many of us, the $$$ in our pockets—the 'I got standards' comments tend to come from those who have more, IMO. For those who already are doing well, the model usually depends on what one wants to do at the moment. Or, for those elite out there, the ones who are savvy enough to understand the current state of the market and know how to calculate IRR to a tenth of a percent, I suspect.

Those who have $$$ backing or long-term experience might want to remember that everyone doesn't start out with $$$ to buy the best of everything. The cheaper ones have their problems, for sure. The horns, for example. My most profitable cow was $450. She's crazy, though, and I got her cheap because she's crazy. But she has had two bull calves in the 15 months that I have had her and she has only cost me about about $210 in grazing cost and $75 in protein and minerals, and $200 in anger putting up with a crazy cow. Since I'm paying myself the last 200, I figure I've done well on her.

Finally, if you are new to cattle, I still think it is better to start out cheap. Warren does have a point about Corrientes. They tend not to die. My dad swore up and down that that cow up above was gonna die. They weaned her at about 2 months or something in the winter. She just kept chugging, got bred on time and had her first calf on time. Not bad. But if it had gone south, a $400 cow that dies on you is a lot less expensive than a $2000 that dies on you. Just saying.

We do all three examples and have for many years. At first it was buy old cows and keep their heifers. We have always bought calves we could add value to, some types are not worth bringing home.
We now sell some of the highest if not the highest price per lb calves in our area and still buy back stags, bulls, horns, lame, frozen ears at much under what they would be worth if the seller had done their job at home.
Still buy undervalued bred cows although no old ones any more.

NEVER scrimp on bull power or vaccinations!

Ownership has a lot to do with quality.

 

[MtnCows93]

here is one of the angus cross calves i was talking about, ill call her a longhorn cow i guess but this calf is out of a solid black angus bull