Should we defend our friends?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26080747#storyContinued
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26080747#storyContinued
speaking of war
- Thread starter ollie?
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
Mahoney Pursley Ranch
Well-known member
NO
TexasBred
Well-known member
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":25ftcbiz said:
DITTO
john250
Well-known member
My money is on Georgia. I don't think they have lost a fight since Sherman.
milesvb
Well-known member
Lammie":2ptpbxdh said:
John didn't confuse me at all. I'm just wondering what Jogeephus, Beefy and/or Ga. Prime might have done to screw up international relations so badly.
chrisy
Well-known member
Seeing it on the NEWS tonight, was wondering how many will come to England now as refugees/asylum seekers????? 
Jogeephus
Well-known member
milesvb":3gmu2wgp said:
Don't look at me! Beefy done it!! Not me!! I told Beefy that Putin's daughter was waaaaay toooo young for him to be messing with. But NOOOOOOOOOOO. When he gets to drinking you can't tell him anything. Not a thing. Now look what he's gone and done.
john250
Well-known member
Jogeephus":3u3f0f58 said:
Moscow girls make me sing and shout
Cause Georgia's always on my my my my my my mind.
The Mil & Aero Blog
Bookmark This Page! (Ctrl+D)
Subscribe to an RSS Feed of this Blog.
<< Home
Russia invades Georgia: an Archduke Ferdinand moment?
Friday, August 8, 2008
Posted by John Keller
Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers rolled across the Georgian border yesterday in a fast-moving armored blitzkrieg in support of Georgian separatist rebels fighting in opposition to the democratic and Western-leaning established government of Georgia.
CNN is reporting that upwards of 1,000 Georgian civilians have been killed so far, and Russian warplanes have dropped bombs on at least one Georgian military air base. This isn't a little border clash; these two countries are in an all-out war. No one has seen this kind of Russian incursion since the Soviet Union's invasions of Afghanistan in 1979, of Czechoslovakia in 1968, and of Hungary in 1956. Is this the beginning of a return to the bad old days?
Interesting that this comes the day before the Olympics open in Beijing, and the U.S. is in the heat of a presidential election. What better timing to ensure that nobody in the U.S. or the West cares much about this military invasion. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says the Russian timing is no accident. I don't think it's any accident either.
Saakashvili made clear in an interview today that this incident represents a test of Western support for democratic governments, especially those established in the sphere of influence of the old Soviet Union, as Georgia certainly is.
Georgia has voiced its wish to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, better-known as NATO. Russia has said this would be unacceptable.
Russia has put its money and military might where its mouth is. The most fundamental geopolitical question in the world today is will the West do the same? Would it make sense for the U.S. to get involved in the Russian-Georgia War, which Russia will claim is an internal conflict and Georgia will claim is naked armed aggression against an independent democratic country?
The only thing between U.S. air bases in Iraq and the Georgian capital of T'bilisi is the country of Turkey. Would the Turks grant permission to U.S. planes to overfly its territory in support of Georgia? That's no clear. Would U.S. aircraft carriers -- they're not there already -- move into the Eastern Mediterranean -- or even into the Black Sea -- within striking distance of Georgia? We'll have to see.
The bigger question is would we want to do this? The answer is, we would if we would like the world to take the U.S. and its rhetoric supporting democratic movements and governments seriously.
Next question: COULD we get involved while U.S. forces are already stretched thin in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on the opening day of the Olympics? That would be ugly. We'll see if the Bush Administration has the stomach for it.
In the meantime, I'm reflecting on the history of the early 20th century. In the summer of 1914, a Serbian terrorist shot and killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo. A series of interlocking alliances were activated, resulting in an invasion of Western Europe by German and Austrian armies, resulting in World War I, which resulted in 20 million deaths.
I wonder if the Russian invasion of Georgia is an Archduke Ferdinand moment. I hope it's not, but smaller things have resulted in global conflagrations. The risks and threats posed by the Russian invasion throughout the world are huge.
I'll be keeping a close eye.
Bookmark This Page! (Ctrl+D)
Subscribe to an RSS Feed of this Blog.
<< Home
Russia invades Georgia: an Archduke Ferdinand moment?
Friday, August 8, 2008
Posted by John Keller
Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers rolled across the Georgian border yesterday in a fast-moving armored blitzkrieg in support of Georgian separatist rebels fighting in opposition to the democratic and Western-leaning established government of Georgia.
CNN is reporting that upwards of 1,000 Georgian civilians have been killed so far, and Russian warplanes have dropped bombs on at least one Georgian military air base. This isn't a little border clash; these two countries are in an all-out war. No one has seen this kind of Russian incursion since the Soviet Union's invasions of Afghanistan in 1979, of Czechoslovakia in 1968, and of Hungary in 1956. Is this the beginning of a return to the bad old days?
Interesting that this comes the day before the Olympics open in Beijing, and the U.S. is in the heat of a presidential election. What better timing to ensure that nobody in the U.S. or the West cares much about this military invasion. Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says the Russian timing is no accident. I don't think it's any accident either.
Saakashvili made clear in an interview today that this incident represents a test of Western support for democratic governments, especially those established in the sphere of influence of the old Soviet Union, as Georgia certainly is.
Georgia has voiced its wish to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, better-known as NATO. Russia has said this would be unacceptable.
Russia has put its money and military might where its mouth is. The most fundamental geopolitical question in the world today is will the West do the same? Would it make sense for the U.S. to get involved in the Russian-Georgia War, which Russia will claim is an internal conflict and Georgia will claim is naked armed aggression against an independent democratic country?
The only thing between U.S. air bases in Iraq and the Georgian capital of T'bilisi is the country of Turkey. Would the Turks grant permission to U.S. planes to overfly its territory in support of Georgia? That's no clear. Would U.S. aircraft carriers -- they're not there already -- move into the Eastern Mediterranean -- or even into the Black Sea -- within striking distance of Georgia? We'll have to see.
The bigger question is would we want to do this? The answer is, we would if we would like the world to take the U.S. and its rhetoric supporting democratic movements and governments seriously.
Next question: COULD we get involved while U.S. forces are already stretched thin in Iraq and Afghanistan, and on the opening day of the Olympics? That would be ugly. We'll see if the Bush Administration has the stomach for it.
In the meantime, I'm reflecting on the history of the early 20th century. In the summer of 1914, a Serbian terrorist shot and killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo. A series of interlocking alliances were activated, resulting in an invasion of Western Europe by German and Austrian armies, resulting in World War I, which resulted in 20 million deaths.
I wonder if the Russian invasion of Georgia is an Archduke Ferdinand moment. I hope it's not, but smaller things have resulted in global conflagrations. The risks and threats posed by the Russian invasion throughout the world are huge.
I'll be keeping a close eye.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I think we ought to just sit tight and let somebody else play death and construction.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Jogeephus":82mtwn50 said:
Ted Kennedy was wondering if they burned Savannah this time. :lol: :lol:
I think it's down right spineless to let Russia run over Georgia. They were a friend in the region and sent troops to Iraq but we all set tight because it's Russia. I say if we roll in there with some marines Russia would have quite a bit less swagger.
Calman
Well-known member
ollie?":3p2lzi72 said:
I think we need to concetrate more on our own country.Gang wars, Drug wars,and such.
Besides the Marines can't do too much against russian forces by themselves.
Marines are a fighting machine,and I can't deny that. But any way you slice it they are helpless without the other branches of our military.If they could do it on their own we wouldn't have Army,Air force or Navy. Hate to bust your bubble. :lol2: :lol2:
Cal
Mahoney Pursley Ranch
Well-known member
ollie?":1m09nbbu said:
Yup let's start some crap with Russia,that's just what we need. (NOT) Russia is a country we need to stay on good terms with more so than Georgia.
chrisy
Well-known member
Mahoney Pursley Ranch":2h73uecr said:
No-one needs a fight with Russia it's a Country to be left to it's own devices, until it reaches our shores. There's more to them than reaches the eye, but out an stand well clear IMO.
chrisy":ahl8ftd3 said:
If Russia has bombed the BP oil pipeline, as I have read, the repercussions have reached our shores.
Some think that this invasion is an act to bring the West down through crippling it's oil supply.
There's a lot more to it than just an invasion of our little ally, Georgia.
I would never say "stay out of it" until we find out the intentions of Russia.
MistyMorning
Well-known member
Totally agree, the most difficult task though is to figure out those intentions. They have been at this game for a lot longer then the U.S. They are very, very good at this game.MikeC":4b3dvem2 said:
