Situation at the Superdome

[D Land]

Maybe its a crazy idea, but I keep wondering why we can't air drop some marines /special forces into the area around the Superdome; let them establish order; then air drop in water /food. People in that area around the Superdome are dying while help "is on the way." They can't wait of water / food to be trucked in.

 

[flaboy]

I just heard on the radio a guy called in and said he was a Marine being deployed there. I also heard they were sending in troops to stabilize the idiots around the stadium. ;-)

 

[Crowderfarms]

I just heard on the radio a guy called in and said he was a Marine being deployed there. I also heard they were sending in troops to stabilize the idiots around the stadium. ;-)

This has got to be the worst disaster any of us have or will ever seen in our lifetimes on U.S. Soil. Hopefully, the last. The elements causing the further chaos need to be flat out eradicated.Whatever it takes. Orders of "shoot to kill" should be given. Take no prisoners.

 

[Ryder]

Superdome being evacuated people being bussed to Astrodome in Houston.

A lot of these type people sheltered there before during storm threat. They got free food for a day or two. Trashed the place, had sex out in the open,drugs, fights. When they left they took everything that wasn't nailed down.

No doubt they thought this would be just another hurricane party for a day or two. Didn't work out that way.

Police from several other states are enroute to New Orleans.

Rescue efforts still going on for stranded people. Media just keeps focusing on dome and the looters because it is a good visual.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

I think I agree with you, Ryder. But it is pretty sad and discouraging to observe the behavior of many of those folks in the Louisiana Superdome, the car & bus jacking at gunpoint, etc. --- not to mention all the filthy damn vermin that did the looting of guns, TV's, etc. (and not merely food & water). There has been a lot of discussion in Houston over the past several years about what to do with the Astrodome, and some have suggested that it should just be torn down. I've got a bad feeling that after several months of housing 25,000 of those storm refugees the Dome will be in such sad and torn to hell shape that tearing it down will seem much more like the logical thing to do. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Ryder]

A Baton Rouge facility, The River Center, was turned into a shelter. Some of the "new residents" took it upon themselves to go into a parking garage and mug city parish employees as they were leaving work. Also jumpiing up and down and denting cars.

TV shows a lot of cops in downtown area now, some with shotguns.
Mayor and police chief say these people are not going to take over the city.
News reported the mayor said Baton Rouge would not take in anymore people.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

From here in Australia,it amazes me that the US hasn't mobilized their relief organizations more quickly. They can send troops quickly to world hot spots,why not be quick at home.
People were asked to leave before Katrina. How ignorant when they had plenty of warning.
Our government has offered money and some relief help. Hopefully the same outcome for donated money doesn't happen like the tsunami money. We had serious bushfires occurring here at the same time (with loss of life) as the tsunami. They received little attention. I never gave anything to the tsunami appeal,because I believe charity begins at home.
From my experience city dwellers might think they are worldly and know lots of things. But country folk are much more switched on and take the time to look at the sky and see potential danger and heed warnings. Just a question at the end of this post. Are there only African Americans that live in New Orleans? They are the only type of people that we see on TV broadcasts about Katrina.
A similar event could happen here as lots of land has been developed close to the sea. We are fortunate that most of our cyclone prone areas don't have much population. so the effects are much less.
Colin

 

[Ryder]

Colin, In a general sense I agree with you about the difference between city people and country people. When I was a kid and city cousins would come visit, I felt stupid . They would talk on and on about details of things I knew nothing about-city stuff. It took me years to realize that actually I knew so much more and was so much more competent than they were. The difference was that they knew a little and talked a lot. Country folks (at least some of them) just took what they knew how to do for granted ,and used it. It was called 'common sense'.

It has bothered me that it looks like all are blacks in New Orleans. Per centage wise the majority in New Orleans are blacks. But there are plenty of whites. The whites, and a lot of blacks, left before the storm. There are government welfare housing areas in New Orleans, 'project housing'. These are the poorest of the poor. These 'projects' are riddled with crime, drugs, and violence. The people have the attitude that they have a right to what they want, but they don't think they have to earn it. They don't think or plan ahead but only live from moment to moment. If things go wrong, they expect the system to take care of them. They went to the superdome expecting to be taken care of. The system broke down.

Some of my comments may be considered 'politically incorrect'. Of course I am only repeating what I have seen on the news. ;-)

 

[Rustler9]

Ryder,
Very well put. I feel sorry for any of those people left down there but then again it's hard to feel sorry for a bunch of degenerates just ripping and tearing the hell out of everything. And expecting big brother to pamper and feed them. Makes me mad.

 

[preston39]

colin,
Unfortuntely our president , not unlike his father, is more interested in international poisturing than internal matters.

We must look like bumbling fools to the rest of the world. Having said that, one must hasten to add that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. We have spent billions of dollars on flood walls, pumps to remove the water each time it rains and other efforts to contain the water since it is located 7' below sea level...which is a flood plain. It should have been abandoned long ago.

I would agree with our house speaker, Hastert, now is the time to correct a bad situation since few would care. It takes a disaster such as this to get folks to face reality. There are other inhabited flood plains along the Ohio and mississippi waterways that are in a similiar predicament during flooding. The potential of mother nature causing disaters are unlimited and it is wise that we stay out of her way as far as possible.

 

[Southerngal]

I must say that from all accounts seen on the tv I looks miserable there. And my heart goes out to the people. BUT the news media are not staying there over night. They are leaving to go some where.So my thinking is if the media can leave to area then why cant the refugees leave. I dont mean by bus , train or auto why can't they walk. Heck I know its hot and they are hungery and thristy, but come on people self preservation has come into play. I for one would not let myself stay where it is dangeroous. How are they suppose to get help when they are shooting at the helicopters and acting like idiots when the buses pull up. COMMON SENSE tells you 20,000 people cant get on one bus. These folks need to help themselves not wait on big brother to do it for them.I think we should move out the women and children, leave the able bodied males behind let them start cleaning up the destruction. I would guess that many of the ones there are on welfare. Well its time they paid some money back to the the goverment that has been supporting them.

 

[9 ER]

How about this. Houston opens up the Astrodome for those idiots in the Superdome and busses them over. They are provided hot meals, cots to sleep in, hot showers, and working restrooms. Four people were arrested yesterday for urinating on the walls.

 

[J]

colin,
Unfortuntely our president , not unlike his father, is more interested in international poisturing than internal matters.

We must look like bumbling fools to the rest of the world. Having said that, one must hasten to add that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. We have spent billions of dollars on flood walls, pumps to remove the water each time it rains and other efforts to contain the water since it is located 7' below sea level...which is a flood plain. It should have been abandoned long ago.

I would agree with our house speaker, Hastert, now is the time to correct a bad situation since few would care. It takes a disaster such as this to get folks to face reality. There are other inhabited flood plains along the Ohio and mississippi waterways that are in a similiar predicament during flooding. The potential of mother nature causing disaters are unlimited and it is wise that we stay out of her way as far as possible.

The situation down there is horrible but I am so sick and tired of this disaster and others being a stepping stone for people to bash our President. It was known days before the storm hit that it was coming. I keep hearing how President Bush didn't do enough or is more interested in "international poisturing" but where were those that are criticizing him now. I didn't see any of them/you making any great leaps to help all those people. Quit looking for someone else to blame. I have yet to hear anyone criticize France for their lack of support. When the tsunami (sp?) hit France mouthed us for being stingy. Where's the outrage for that? I'll get off my soapbox before I make someone mad. Sorry ya'll. :stop:

 

[Lngvew]

I think Southern Gal has hit the nail on the head. If I were there and able (in good health) I would have walked out rather than sit on a concrete bridge in the sun waiting. Now, there are a lot of hurt, elderly and children that need to be picked up, but able bodied men & women need to help themselves. I liked the comment that the media comes in then goes out. I wonder if they got a trailer behind their SUV with water, food and med's. Heck no, they carry a camera to the worst spots ( if you notice they show the same footage over and over)and point fingers at the goverment. I beleive Mr. Bush when he says help is on the way but it takes time to organize and deploy.

 

[Muratic]

The almanac mentions another hurricane the 15th thru the 22nd of September.

Grandma always said the the Lord will never give you more than you can handle.

This is not too PC but, maybe just God's way of thinning out the population a bit.

 

[9 ER]

I like our president, but he is too slow to help. Why wait until after the hurricane to get organized to help? We knew it was coming and we knew the damage it was going to do. We knew people were going to stay and try to ride it out. We watched it in the gulf for three days on TV.
I live 30 miles from Galveston and I'm not sure if I would have left my home and animals. My wife would have had to threaten to divorce me or cut me off to get me to leave. All you people that are upset that people stayed need to ask yourself what would you have done if your place was close to the coast.
The coverage of the aftermath is similar to the war. All that is being shown and talked about is the bad stuff. For every stupidass acting a fool there are hundreds that had no choice and need help. What about the kids or elderly? What choice did they have? We were not prepared.

 

[eric]

Man, that is one sorry situation they have there. Most of these people who stayed behind are people who have been living on govt assistance most of their lives, so they figured the gov't would take care of them this time too. Personally, I would have just swam to the nearest highway, then put out my thumb and hitchhiked as long as it took to get somewhere safe. I'll be damned if I would have stayed back and waited for the gov't to snatch me up from my roof.

And if young folks ever needed a lesson in why its important to have a savings account and not live payday to payday, then this is it. Folks who had money were able to get the hell out of there and get a hotel room somewhere in E Texas.

You always hear about saving for a rainy day, well, its raining!

 

[ollie]

Anyone that is suprised how the permenant wellfare class of people live shouldn't be from here on. They are degenerate dogs that contribute nothing to society. Government assistance is at fault for the dependant attitude . They all think if you can get it then by all means do so. Steal, rape , etc. Theyt think it all belongs to them if they can get it.

 

[Crowderfarms]

colin,
Unfortuntely our president , not unlike his father, is more interested in international poisturing than internal matters.

We must look like bumbling fools to the rest of the world. Having said that, one must hasten to add that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. We have spent billions of dollars on flood walls, pumps to remove the water each time it rains and other efforts to contain the water since it is located 7' below sea level...which is a flood plain. It should have been abandoned long ago.

I would agree with our house speaker, Hastert, now is the time to correct a bad situation since few would care. It takes a disaster such as this to get folks to face reality. There are other inhabited flood plains along the Ohio and mississippi waterways that are in a similiar predicament during flooding. The potential of mother nature causing disaters are unlimited and it is wise that we stay out of her way as far as possible.

The President is not at fault here.Bush Sr. would be in the same shape. To orchestrate a relief effort of epic proportions, can't be done overnite.To mobilize a rescue effort takes time.It can't be done at the snap of the finger. Should Miami be abandoned? Jacksonville? Both are built at or below sea level.Should Western Kentucky and West Tennessee area be abandoned, as they are in a Fault Line for earthquakes?. Get Real. Guess the Pacific coast should pack up too, someday they are supposed to slide into the sea.

 

[Campground Cattle]

I like our president, but he is too slow to help. Why wait until after the hurricane to get organized to help? We knew it was coming and we knew the damage it was going to do. We knew people were going to stay and try to ride it out. We watched it in the gulf for three days on TV.
I live 30 miles from Galveston and I'm not sure if I would have left my home and animals. My wife would have had to threaten to divorce me or cut me off to get me to leave. All you people that are upset that people stayed need to ask yourself what would you have done if your place was close to the coast.
The coverage of the aftermath is similar to the war. All that is being shown and talked about is the bad stuff. For every stupidass acting a fool there are hundreds that had no choice and need help. What about the kids or elderly? What choice did they have? We were not prepared.

Yeah stay sounds smart, if that tidal surge had came in at Galveston the storm surge be devastating I have seen Carla first hand you can not imagine in your wildest dreams the destruction. That was in 1961 when most of Galveston to Houston was rice and cattle farming, now its one mass of humanity.

Storm surge model for your back yard.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/ ... index.html

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mp ... an/3049031

20-foot wall of water in the Galveston


More devastation would be caused by winds blowing over the Gulf of Mexico and pushing surface water inland -- creating up to a 20-foot storm surge. Such a wall of water would swamp most development near Galveston Bay, including Texas City, Kemah and Johnson Space Center. Varying levels of water would flood much of the area between Sam Houston Parkway and the bay.

On Galveston Island, the seawall could hold back much of the storm surge, but at some point the water would creep onto the island from the bay side. The island's highest point is just 22 feet above sea level.

Much like a river becomes deeper and more turbulent when it narrows, a storm surge also can increase in height and intensity when its source of water narrows. Dodson said this has profound implications for the Port of Houston. Some models ended with a 30-foot wall of water in the Ship Channel near the port's turning basin, he said. "It would be huge," he said. "It could overwhelm chemical storage facilities, water treatment plants and other sensitive areas."

The port's severe-weather plan calls for most cargo ships to exit the facility and weather the storm at sea in preparation for the possibility of flooded buildings.


Wave modeling
Another, perhaps even-now-unanticipated effect is large waves accompanying the storm surge.

A waves expert at Texas A&M University at Galveston, Vijay Panchang, said he and colleagues were surprised when they observed wave data associated with Hurricane Ivan shortly before it slammed into Alabama last September.

A wave-measuring buoy about 60 miles south of Dauphin Island, before it snapped, registered an average wave height of about 50 feet, Panchang said. That means the biggest waves were a staggering 100 feet tall. Such wave heights, according to his modeling, should only occur every 300 years or so.

Either Ivan's waves were a freak event, or hurricane forecasters may need to adjust their wave expectations for large storms in the warm Gulf waters.

"This is from a storm that hit only a few hundred miles to the east of us," he said. "There's nothing to say that another storm won't create really big waves for us."

These large waves caused by Ivan may have been as responsible, if not more so, than the storm surge for severely damaging the I-10 bridge bear Pensacola, Fla., Panchang said.



Surprises after landfall

Engineers and forecasters say the most unpredictable element of a storm comes after landfall, when it either dumps rain and floods creeks and bayous or moves quickly enough that relatively little rain falls.

Tropical Storm Allison probably isn't a good model for what to expect. The system was so poorly organized and slow moving that some hurricane forecasters say it wasn't a tropical storm. In some areas of the city, enough rain fell to classify Allison as a 10,000-year rainfall event. Still, because a large hurricane's storm surge likely would block the flow of bayou waters into Galveston Bay, any significant rainfall could back up into inland streets and homes quickly, Dodson said.

The last major hurricane most Houston residents remember was Alicia, which made landfall on the west end of Galveston Island in August 1983.

Unfortunately, planners say, as devastating as that storm was, it's a poor predictor of what to expect from a larger, Category 4 or bigger storm.

Alicia's highest sustained winds on land were measured at 96 mph. Most of the Greater Houston area received just 5 inches of rain. Storm surges across much of the area were less than 10 feet, although Seabrook measured 12 feet.

The storm spawned 23 tornadoes, killed 21 people and destroyed 2,300 homes.

"Alicia was a marginal Category 3," Dodson said. "Its rainfall doesn't come close to this area's top 20 historical floods.

"I guess what I'm saying is that I hope people don't ignore evacuation warnings because they remember that things weren't apocalyptic during Alicia."