Selling bulls compared to steers.

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True Grit Farms

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There's been a $90.00 spread between 600-700 weight bulls and steers lately. Cattle that have been worked are bringing a premium like they should again.
 

Craig Miller

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Ojp6":3qu9b9ny said:
Buy all the bulls you can find then and you can be as rich as you want to be. At that spread you could make huge amounts of money. The spread in the KY and TN area is between 10-20 dollars, sometimes less, depending on if you are talking about load of weaned steers or just your average couple head of steers. Sale I was at today 7 weight bulls bring 1.36. 7 weight steers from 1.40-1.45. 6 weight bulls 1.41-1.43, 6 weight steers 1.53-1.58.

Don't see the spread getting much wider than that as long as people are backgrounding cattle. It would take an extreme lack of competition or somebody monopolizing the market completely to ever see a spread like that at any sale I've ever been to. I'd be scared to take any cattle to a sale giving away any class of cattle that cheap.

Might want to check that math again. 12 to 15 cents a pounds..that's $72-90 spread on 6 weights...not far off from what to said True Grit said it was.
 
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True Grit Farms

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Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.
 

RanchMan90

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True Grit Farms":b35e16xt said:
There's been a $90.00 spread between 600-700 weight bulls and steers lately. Cattle that have been worked are bringing a premium like they should again.
$90 total sounds about right, or 15¢ a lb. Buy, cut, graze, sell in Aug, make $.
 

1982vett

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True Grit Farms":1ukfamxg said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.
Would be interesting to know the percentage that sold at a 90 dollar premium......was it one instance or many more? Market reporting of the top and bottom price doesn't paint a true picture.

Would also like to know if they covered ALL the extras need for one to change their operation from selling 500 lb calves to selling 700 lb calves. Those are two very different operations .... saying "if you have the pasture" doesn't take a lot of risks into account and just puts $$ in the eyes of the inexperienced open minded.
 

callmefence

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We started cutting and weaning at least 45 days over the past couple of years. I really want to do it this way. I don't mind the extra effort and I like taking a group of calves that are right.
The only thing.. I can see a noticeable difference in the growth of my calves cut vs intact. I'm cutting at about 350 # and implanting with ralgro. By weaning the uncut calves are noticeably heavier and more muscular. Enough to offset the markup for cutting.Idk if it's something in my method or in my cattle. I'm all ears
 

talltimber

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I've seen some pics of your haygrazer so I know you have some forage there. Are your cows/calves on good enough forage to utilize the implant?
I don't have a comparison, and don't know why you would, unless the obvious, you're selling bulls, as to why you would not cut them all?
Unless you are comparing previous years to a more recent year - and someone a little while back decided for the rest of us that we didn't have that capability. No way to tell year to year whether the calves grew more or they didn't. :roll:
 

callmefence

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talltimber":1y6j2hye said:
I've seen some pics of your haygrazer so I know you have some forage there. Are your cows/calves on good enough forage to utilize the implant?
I don't have a comparison, and don't know why you would, unless the obvious, you're selling bulls, as to why you would not cut them all?
Unless you are comparing previous years to a more recent year - and someone a little while back decided for the rest of us that we didn't have that capability. No way to tell year to year whether the calves grew more or they didn't. :roll:

No I don't sell any replacement cattle. Zero. I do have multiple pastures. I typically gather pair's and bring them home to work and wean.
Sometimes a few get left or get brought in out of time. The last group one through a fit broke his nose, and continued to climb the walls. I skipped he got shipped intact. I run bulls year round and typically have a bout 3 groups per year. I know that calves coming back off different pasture and different bulls is not a scientific comparison. But I'm pretty sure of my observation. And like I said. I want it to work for us.
 

Brute 23

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callmefence":2irk630s said:
We started cutting and weaning at least 45 days over the past couple of years. I really want to do it this way. I don't mind the extra effort and I like taking a group of calves that are right.
The only thing.. I can see a noticeable difference in the growth of my calves cut vs intact. I'm cutting at about 350 # and implanting with ralgro. By weaning the uncut calves are noticeably heavier and more muscular. Enough to offset the markup for cutting.Idk if it's something in my method or in my cattle. I'm all ears

That's been the age old issue with cutting bulls. They are getting more $ per lbs, but are selling less pounds. The spread is not near as much as most people think, especially on the lighter weight cattle.

The biggest scam ever is buyers talking producers in to cutting the calves for them... for free. Its like when people say they got a great deal on a car. The dealer gave me more than blue book. I always ask... how much did you pay off of sticker? They say $2000 or what ever. Ya... you got screwed. They just re-arranged the numbers on you.
 

RanchMan90

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1982vett":122l29hc said:
True Grit Farms":122l29hc said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.
Would be interesting to know the percentage that sold at a 90 dollar premium......was it one instance or many more? Market reporting of the top and bottom price doesn't paint a true picture.

Would also like to know if they covered ALL the extras need for one to change their operation from selling 500 lb calves to selling 700 lb calves. Those are two very different operations .... saying "if you have the pasture" doesn't take a lot of risks into account and just puts $$ in the eyes of the inexperienced open minded.
Money is money. Cutting bulls is the oldest trick in the book, just ask any old hand. Make em a steer and turn them out with the cows. One of the best returns I have seen personally.
 

dieselbeef

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True Grit Farms":2zoa7h4n said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.


when we had that same kind of mtg with the feedlot guy from chiefland here all yall told that was bs... :tiphat:

like what brute said....
 

callmefence

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True Grit Farms":321xq4zp said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.

I reckon Turner county stockyards auction off cattle and get paid by commission.
They did pay for dinner anyway
 
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True Grit Farms

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callmefence":1ts9afxg said:
True Grit Farms":1ts9afxg said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.

I reckon Turner county stockyards auction off cattle and get paid by commission.
They did pay for dinner anyway

Have you tried banding or cutting at birth or in the first month? Turner county sponsors a supper a year, been in the same place and owned by the Wiggins family for 57 years. Yes he's in business to make money, but I truly believe he wants us to make as much money as possible also.
 

callmefence

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True Grit Farms":1hoqhsf9 said:
callmefence":1hoqhsf9 said:
True Grit Farms":1hoqhsf9 said:
Well to be honest I did use the most extreme price differences at this Wednesday's sale in Ashburn Georgia. Turner county stock yard sponsored our GCA supper last night and was pushing castration for bull calves, and also holding the calves till there around 700+ lbs, if you have the pasture.

I reckon Turner county stockyards auction off cattle and get paid by commission.
They did pay for dinner anyway

Have you tried banding or cutting at birth or in the first month? Turner county sponsors a supper a year, been in the same place and owned by the Wiggins family for 57 years. Yes he's in business to make money, but I truly believe he wants us to make as much money as possible also.

No I've never cut that young.
I've only used bands once. They seem to me to get over the knife faster.
 

BC

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It depends on the time of the year here as to how much discount is applied to cutting bulls 500 lbs and up. In August until frost, the dock is $5 to $10 per cwt and as much as $15 per cwt on some 700 pounders. I applaud that sale barn operator for trying to help his customers get as much for their calves as he can. One reason he is encouraging producers to castrate their calves is because his buyers are starting to carry more "steer only" orders. I see it weekly here in East Texas and can imagine it is also happening in the southeast.
 

BC

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I meant to add that when buyers can only put steers on an order, that takes bidders out of the equation. Where you might have 4 or 5 buyers bidding on steer cattle, only 1 or 2 may have an order that calls for "steer or bulls". I have seen some of these steer only orders on as little as 450 lb cattle.
 

bird dog

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I watched a bunch of the sale last week at OKC and the bulls were pretty steady at a 15 cent/lb discount versus steers. I band my calves at about 250 lb and also give them a Ralgro implant. The group I sold last week was also given an implant at weaning and were put on pasture with and fed 5 or so lbs a day per head of creep feed. They performed very well after weaning gaining about 2 1/2 lbs per day on average.
As mentioned, they have to have something good to eat for the implant to work correctly. If you implant and just put them on poor pasture or poor hay, you will probably be disappointed.
 

farmerjan

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Have spent quite a bit of time at the sale yard in the past few weeks. We hit a great week about 3 weeks ago and got $1.80 for some 425lb steers. Took about 16 steers and a few small mediocre heifers off a group of cows. All the steers were in the 4-5 wts and none were less than 1.69. The following week took another group of about 10 and the prices were about $.15 less per lb. for all sizes. Prices continue to soften a bit and will stay this way until Late August if the normal trends hold. In all sizes, the bulls were anywhere from $.10 to $.40 LESS per lb. than steers. There are 2 or 3 buyers that will pick up the bulls, and one told me that he will cut em and run them to about 8-9 wts and then sell in the graded sales. He said right out that he has to pay $.15 minimum less than steers to make it figure for him. Another buyer we have known a long time has often told us NOT to sell them as bulls, that we are losing too much money now that the crazy high prices of a couple of years ago are over with.
We seldom will sell as bulls, although we did some when prices were way up there. Not now. Anything over 6 wts you really get hit here if they are bulls.

Picked up 5 cow/calf pairs for an average 1,000 a pair. 4 had bull calves and we worked them as soon as we got them in. One had 2 heifer calves, they think they were twins but not totally sure. Cow seemed to be talking to them so will keep her close to see. Calves in the 200 lb range so not new babies but up and going. Checked the cows mouths, got one old cow, 2 older mature and 2 that were in the 4-6 year old range. All were in real good flesh, and calves looked good. One calf had some runny looking eyes so treated it and will watch it for a few days to make sure it clears up before they go to pasture with the bull. Cows all weighed in the 11-1200 range. There were also about 25 purebred angus but no papers that brought in the 1900 to 2200 range. All had calves but too much for my taste. Farm was selling out. The ones I got were not from there, but it doesn't matter, I can make these pencil out if they all raise their calves. Will probably not breed the one old cow back, but the others will hopefully go out with a bull in a week or so. Nice thing is they are all pretty quiet to work around and that is saying alot after being poked and prodded and pushed around at the sale. We have shipped nearly a dozen cows that come up open from the last 2 preg checks and all but 3 had no teeth. So it was time. Have 15 heifers out with the bull but am always looking for some that will have a calf to sell sooner when we cull a group.
May sit on the rest of the calves from the late nov-dec calving group for awhile. Mostly heifers, we are running 70% or more of heifers for both fall 2016 and spring 2017. But better a live heifer than a dead bull.....
 

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