Ryegrass & Durana, no access to no-till

[lead_dog]

Similar to other posts I read below, I need to plant some seed in the next couple of weeks to renovate a pasture here in E. Georgia. Right now, we're mowing them as close to the ground as possible. The plan is to plant durana clover over the existing fescue/bermuda sod, and to plant ryegrass for winter/early spring grazing for a new herd.

I've read (and been told by extension agent) that I should no till, but there is no local access to a no till drill. I have a spreader, but it sounds like that won't work. My neighbors have some planting equipment, but before I inquire, what do you suggest as the best (without no-till) way to plant the seed?

Thanks for your help.

 

[bigbull338]

thats an easy problem to fix.you dont need a no till drill to plant the rye grass an clover.all you need is a 3pt pto seeder to plant the rye grass an clover.

 

[lead_dog]

I have a PTO broadcast spreader. Is that what you mean? I was under the impression that broadcast wouldn't work well unless I was doing frost seeding. FYI, I currently don't have animals on pasture, so they can't hoof the seed in for me. This is pretty much what I have:

 

[bigbull338]

yes im talking about the seeder you have.use it to plant the rye grass an clover.shredding the pasture will give the seed a way to make ground contact.as far as i know you dont need cattle to tromp the seeds in the ground.

 

[blueridge]

With the price of Durana there is no way I would use a broadcast spreader. That method does work well with the ryegrass though. I did that last winter and used a drag to rough up the surface and it did well. The cows were on it well into May. Have you checked with area farm equipment dealers. Around here most places that sale no-tills also rent them. You could also check with a local cattlemens association to see if a farmer may have one to use. Good luck.

 

[JRM]

Planted the same way last year with a 3pt spreader. Only thing I did different was I ran a disk with no angle on the disc ( all I got was just a small cut in the field and not very deep) over the field and a ran big heavy cattle panel behind the disk. This was to scratch the ground a little bit. Had excellent results, but we had rain at all the time too. In North East Texas here, not sure about how it will work where you are at

 

[Jogeephus]

I've done it like JRM recommended. In my opinion, I think it is best to harrow lightly using a harrow with scallop discs. Then broadcast the seed. The small cups created by the discs are excellent for small seed germination. I got a good stand when I did it plus I got an extra crop of some other clover that I had planted several years ago.

Another good way, and faster way, is to use a chain harrow aka chain drag. These can be turned backwards so they dethatch the existing grass. If you attach this to your drawbar with a ten foot length of chain and then hook up your spreader you can broadcast the seed and when it hits the ground the chain harrow will work it in the ground to the proper depth. By using the chain harrow simultaneously, you will also find you are less apt to overspread or underspread the field since you can easily see where you have been in the field. Also, since the small seed like clover cannot be thrown very far, a 12' drag works about perfect. Good luck.

 

[Proverbs 12:10]

This is what has worked best for me planting ryegrass and clover combined: 1) clip WSG as short as possible, 2) drag chain harrow to expose more soil, 3) broadcast seed, 4) run cultipacker over to press seed. With first rain ryegrass will drill down. Packing helps the clover make contact.

 

[novatech]

Planted the same way last year with a 3pt spreader. Only thing I did different was I ran a disk with no angle on the disc ( all I got was just a small cut in the field and not very deep) over the field and a ran big heavy cattle panel behind the disk. This was to scratch the ground a little bit. Had excellent results, but we had rain at all the time too. In North East Texas here, not sure about how it will work where you are at

Ditto on this. All the seed needs is good ground contact. A good rain will do the rest. Rye will usually sprout without any contact given enough rain. For the clover a packer would help for a higher percentage of germination.

 

[lead_dog]

Those are great ideas. I can get a chain harrow and drag it back from the bar while spreading at the same time. I'll try that approach. The bigger problem is, of course, rain. I'm pretty sure that it's never going to rain again.

 

[farmerjohn]

Yes ryegrass will germinate on top of the ground but if it doesn't rain every few days it will die before it makes a root system. I have wasted quite a few lbs of expensive seed over the years before I figured that out. Just scratch the ground with a disc harrow. You will notice that the seed comes up in the tracks left by the harrow.
As far as clover goes I only have exp. with arrowleaf but I just throw it on top of the ground. If you cover it up, make it shallow.

 

[MrBilly]

I personally would not plant ryegrass and Durana together at all. It is very important that the Durana gets all the sun and nutrients it can muster during the year of establishment. Putting in ryegrass will shade the clover and reduce your stand. When we planted it five years ago, we clipped the fescue to prevent the shading through the establishment period.

Also, ryegrass will set back not only the clover but also your fescue. Dr. Carl Hoveland, of UGA, just sent me an email about why one should not plant ryegrass into a pure fescue field. He says that since ryegrass and fescue are both cool season grasses there will be too much competition and the ryegrass will ruin most of the normal winter and spring growth of the fescue. Also, he said, "it (ryegrass) can weaken the tall fescue because the fescue does not have enough leaf growth to restore the storage carbohydrates in the stem bases so it may not survive the summer heat and drought." I had specifically asked him about planting ryegrass into a fescue pasture, and he said, "It would be better to spend your money overseeding bermudagrass."

If you don't have Hoveland's Southern Forages bible, you should get it. Here is the publishers site: http://ppi-store.stores.yahoo.net/soutfor.html


Billy

 

[lead_dog]

MrBilly,

Great advice. My 45 acres of pasture is divided into two fields: one that has a solid fescue stand and the other that used to be planted in cool-season annuals before they let the pasture go years ago. Right now, there's lots of Dallis grass and weeds on that side.

My plan is to plan the durana on the fescue side after I mow it closely, thereby creating less dependence on the fescue. On the other side, I'll take your advice and plant only the ryegrass to give winter and spring forage for the cattle. Later I'll get durana on that side as well if it takes on the other side.

 

[MrBilly]

Lead Dog, one other thing to consider. If you have any weed problems DO NOT plant Durana until you have them well under control. Once the clover is planted there is NO herbicide that will not kill the clover. Unfortunately, our consultants didn't make this very clear to us when we planted Durana. We have been spot spraying many fields ever since. Horse nettle got so bad in some fields that we did a general spray to get rid of it. Now we are waiting at least two years with continued vigilence and spot spraying before we replant. Remember, there is a bank of weed seeds in the dirt, so one season will not be enough to tell what kind of weed pressure you will have. It is better to get this right and then you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Good luck, once you get everything under control you will love the Durana.

BIlly

 

[lead_dog]

Thanks MrBilly. In my case, we don't put any herbicides on the field anyway, as we're keeping it natural/organic. We're multi-species grazing with sheep/goats/cattle and will do our best to manage it that way. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[MrBilly]

Lead Dog, sounds good to me, I guess the goats will eat the weeds? If I had the correct fencing, I would try some goats, but the city is coming close to our fences. I planted our Durana with our own no till drill, as I do all our winter grazing. Our NRCS has a no till drill for rent along with an operator, might check that out in your area.

Finally, if you will be selling ORGANIC meat from your critters, I am sure you know that you need to have them processed in an ORGANIC certified meat plant. I don't know of any here in Georgia. Then of course you also need to find all organic supplements which I find hard to do also. I have used organic fly spray on our cattle from Crystal Creek which is on line.

We are "Natural" which allows much more flexibility in how you manage things and it is a lot cheaper for us. The organic regs for beef are so onerous that I just can't even think about doing it.

Good Luck!

Billy

 

[lead_dog]

Hey Billy,

Yeah, I checked with NRCS and two local extension services (Elbert & Hart). There are no no-tills available, although there used to be. But that's the least of my problem, with rain, or lack thereof, being the biggest.

We're not going "certified" organic, mainly because I don't believe in the standards they set. We think we exceed them, but like you, we don't necessarily need or want to pay an administration person to come out and say "yep, you're doing it right".

We're taking pastured broilers and eggmobiles 3-4 days behiind the cows in intensive rotational grazing (daily moves) so I'm hoping that also helps with the flies.