Replacement heifers

[mnmtranching]

So how do you folks figure others can raise replacement heifers cheaper than you?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Nobody has mentioned that the best replacements are bred for maternal characteristics which means that their steer contemporaries are not topping out the market. That cost would need to be figured into a retained heifer.

You are right!

But..... that is only if producers are optimzing their calf crop buy useing terminal sires. I have found that a lot of the folks on this board are useing bulls that are more on the maternal side. ;-)

you figure a highlander to be a terminal sire do ye

I dont care what the answer is. That is funny :shock:

Don,t know were you came up with that but, yes that is funny! :lol: :lol:

As to the question there is a good chance it would cost you less in the short run to buy your replacements. I choice to raise mine because I know their back round and they cost me less in the long run with good health calmness easy keeping ect. I also breed for a particular cross that works well for my area weather ect. and type of pasture/ range.

you know dam well where it came from... theres a thin line between terminal and maternal ....dont care what terminal sire you use,if the maternal side aint there... wrap it up..... a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas. than someone that has a bunch of pumkin roller momas with a term bull...... MOMAS thats where its at..

 

[Victoria]

So how do you folks figure others can raise replacement heifers cheaper than you?

Around here most years you can let someone else feed them over the winter and pick them up in a spring sale for less than it costs us to winter our own. We also are part of a more select sale and tend to get slightly higher prices anyway.
It's even cheaper to buy a bred heifer than to keep our own calves or buy someone elses.

 

[CowpokeJ]

I much rather save my own, nothing like your own home grown hiefers for easy keeping.

heres the easy way to figure out the costs of raising your heifers.you wean the calf .now lets say that calf is worth 650 at weaning.then you raise that heifer 20 months until she calves.thats 600 days an your upkeep on her is a $1 a day.then at caving you have $1250 a hd in her.wean her calf have another $250 in her.so her total is $1500.will take 3 calves to pay for her.so its cheaper to sale the calves an buy your replacements yearly.1200 for a bred heifer an she be paid for in 2yrs.an you wont have to wait 2yrs for her to calve.

If you buy replacement, barring no problems, they will be on their 3rd calf when the retained is having her 1st. If you go buy a bull to raise replacements, your adding another yr and 6 mo. So the replacement is on no. 4 while retained is on 1. Now, I agree with what Victoria said about being able to buy same quality cattle.

 

[S.R.R.]

theres a thin line between terminal and maternal ....dont care what terminal sire you use,if the maternal side aint there... wrap it up..... a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas. than someone that has a bunch of pumkin roller momas with a term bull...... MOMAS thats where its at..

Keep dreaming it may come true! :roll:

It is far better to raise med sized not so perfect cows and breed them to a good terminal sire then to feed large heavy muscled cows all year and breed them to a not so good bull.

 

[allenfarms]

;-) Amen! I mean Expecially with feed costs! It all starts with A Great Bull. And it's all about the EPD's. I am surprised at the amount of people that still do not look at these when making such important decisions about their herds.

 

[grubbie]

We keep our own, one reason is that we know the stock and know what it is bred to, another reason is that we have time to tame them down well enough to take feed from our hands. Our entire herd (41 head and growing) can be moved easily for miles with a bag of cake on the back of an atv. They'll follow the wife anywhere while I watch football.

 

[aplusmnt]

Been crunching the numbers on this a bunch lately here is what I have came up with. Using the Average cost of $1.00 per day up keep per head.

$365.00 Cow cost from Wean of previous calf to wean of
retained heifer 12 months

$270.00 Heifer cost post weaning in open Stage 270 days

$180.00 Heifer up keep while bred 180 days to the point that
I would be buying a bred heifer 3 months prior to
Calving.

$815.00 Total

This is the cost to raise a heifer to the point that I would be buying a bred heifer. Usually buying bred heifers when 6 months bred. This would bring me up to the equal point of buying that already bred one. Then there would be another $90.00 cost to take her that last 90 days to calving but that cost would also be there if I bought a bred.

Price might be a little higher due to more feed, pelvic exam and few other cost over and above say the $1.00 per day average cost.

If you bought a bred heifer at say $1,200.00 you would save around $385.00 buy retaining one

BUT you would loose say $500.00 from the heifer you could have sold to buy that bred, and you loose one extra calf that the bought Bred would have had that the retained one would have not had, that is another $500.00.

So to me a retained heifer cost me $615.00 more than buying a bred heifer at $1,200.00

Would cost even more if I could find a good bred for say $1,000.00 because the cost of retaining one does not change. So if I found $1,000.00 bred heifers my cost of retaining one verses buying bred makes me an $815.00 looser.

But then to buy one I have to float the extra cash to put with the sale price of the could be retained heifer. I might not have that cash to put with it so retaining might be the best way to grow the herd.

Hope that all makes since. :lol: Probably some Kansas Math mistakes in there somewhere.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Been crunching the numbers on this a bunch lately here is what I have came up with. Using the Average cost of $1.00 per day up keep per head.

$365.00 Cow cost from Wean of previous calf to wean of
retained heifer 12 months

$270.00 Heifer cost post weaning in open Stage 270 days

$180.00 Heifer up keep while bred 180 days to the point that
I would be buying a bred heifer 3 months prior to
Calving.

$815.00 Total

This is the cost to raise a heifer to the point that I would be buying a bred heifer. Usually buying bred heifers when 6 months bred. This would bring me up to the equal point of buying that already bred one. Then there would be another $90.00 cost to take her that last 90 days to calving but that cost would also be there if I bought a bred.

Price might be a little higher due to more feed, pelvic exam and few other cost over and above say the $1.00 per day average cost.

If you bought a bred heifer at say $1,200.00 you would save around $385.00 buy retaining one

BUT you would loose say $500.00 from the heifer you could have sold to buy that bred, and you loose one extra calf that the bought Bred would have had that the retained one would have not had, that is another $500.00.

So to me a retained heifer cost me $615.00 more than buying a bred heifer at $1,200.00

Would cost even more if I could find a good bred for say $1,000.00 because the cost of retaining one does not change. So if I found $1,000.00 bred heifers my cost of retaining one verses buying bred makes me an $815.00 looser.

But then to buy one I have to float the extra cash to put with the sale price of the could be retained heifer. I might not have that cash to put with it so retaining might be the best way to grow the herd.

Hope that all makes since. :lol: Probably some Kansas Math mistakes in there somewhere.

Good post do not forget the retained heifer has no value if you loose her due to calving difficulties or some other reason. This is the reason I prefer to sale the heifer and buy a proven product. If you loose the retained heifer you have 2 years investment in her with no write off.

 

[mwj]

It seems strange to me that you all think that someone can stay in buisness selling replacements that you would lose $6-800 on :shock: Are you buying replacments from people that go broke in 2 years? Why are these cattle not going into the feedlot if everyone else says they are a moneypit to get a calf out of. Do these people have a feed and tax fairy that visits there place. I would really hate to think that a stranger can do so much better than I could.

 

[Caustic Burno]

It seems strange to me that you all think that someone can stay in buisness selling replacements that you would lose $6-800 on :shock: Are you buying replacments from people that go broke in 2 years? Why are these cattle not going into the feedlot if everyone else says they are a moneypit to get a calf out of. Do these people have a feed and tax fairy that visits there place. I would really hate to think that a stranger can do so much better than I could.

The problem is most people don't look at the real cost of raising that replacement heifer.
The cow contributed nothing to the bottom line for two years that cost. The heifer you retained contributed nothing to the bottom line for two year that cost.
If you look at the upkeep cost of the hiefer and the cow until they give you return on capital it is pretty expensive to raise your own. You have two cows for every heifer you retain that paid nothing back to the operation for two years.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

CB - not sure others will understand that.
You have a cow that produces a heifer that you keep. That means the COW didn't have any cash flow since you didn't sell her offspring.
Anyway, I generally can sell some of our open heifers for MORE than I can buy or sell bred heifers. I say SOME, because I never put them all in a sale. Some are sold private & some are put in PB sales. I rarely have a heifer that goes with the feeders, sometimes, but not often.
I PREFER keeping my own for replacements. As others have said, homegrown heifers stay in the herd lots longer than purchased breds for many reasons - mostly poor breeders in my management. But, I do both - keep & buy.
Even though I promote a bull, we are female producers. Meaning, I feel we lose money on every bull born. And, we feel the "cow makes the difference". Cow families are #1 with us. We pick bulls that we feel will produce the BEST female out of each cow. Of course, we try to pick bulls that have the maternal & the growth traits we're looking for.
Aplusmnt - I agree with your Kansas figuring.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB - not sure others will understand that.
You have a cow that produces a heifer that you keep. That means the COW didn't have any cash flow since you didn't sell her offspring.
Anyway, I generally can sell some of our open heifers for MORE than I can buy or sell bred heifers. I say SOME, because I never put them all in a sale. Some are sold private & some are put in PB sales. I rarely have a heifer that goes with the feeders, sometimes, but not often.
I PREFER keeping my own for replacements. As others have said, homegrown heifers stay in the herd lots longer than purchased breds for many reasons - mostly poor breeders in my management. But, I do both - keep & buy.
Even though I promote a bull, we are female producers. Meaning, I feel we lose money on every bull born. And, we feel the "cow makes the difference". Cow families are #1 with us. We pick bulls that we feel will produce the BEST female out of each cow. Of course, we try to pick bulls that have the maternal & the growth traits we're looking for.
Aplusmnt - I agree with your Kansas figuring.

All very good points to consider, as long as you know retained heifers have a high cost.
Also calving first time heifers is a crap shoot at best which can raise the cost even more.
Some pluses are retained genetics.

 

[sidney411]

Well, with all this figuring being done you have to figure in death loss. Just last night I found one of my heifers laid out on her side. Saved the heifer but lost the calf. It was a 92 lb. bull. I had specifically purchased a new bull to cover these heifers that was LBW/CE but not all things work as planned. Went and got a $40 jersey bull to put on her. So, subtract $300 from what I figure the dead calf would have been worth at weaning and now it will take 3 of the other heifers to make up that difference. I figure the jersey will be worth about $300 at weaning opposed to the $600 the dead one would have been worth. But that's a $300 loss, not $600 with putting no calf on her. Plus I figure I probably saved +\- $300 on what the vet would have charged to come out in the middle of the night to pull it. I probably should have waited until Saturday and pickud up a beef calf but didn't want to mess with milking her out until then. What a great start to the New Year Huh?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Aplusmnt figured out his cost - I generally just figure it costs me $1000 to get heifers to breeding age. There is more to it than just the feed.
If you purchase cattle, you have a write off on taxes and/or depreciation. So, we do both. Rarely purchase open heifers, generally prefer buying young cows, but bred heifers work too.
I like to buy cows, I can check on our ASA web site & see all her offspring born. If no calves are listed for each year, or skipped seasons - we pass on her.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

theres a thin line between terminal and maternal ....dont care what terminal sire you use,if the maternal side aint there... wrap it up..... a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas. than someone that has a bunch of pumkin roller momas with a term bull...... MOMAS thats where its at..

Keep dreaming it may come true! :roll:

It is far better to raise med sized not so perfect cows and breed them to a good terminal sire then to feed large heavy muscled cows all year and breed them to a not so good bull.

nobody talk'n about hay burners here but you . talking about a good moma with the complete package to put that extra 100 to 150 pnds on a terminal calf. you dont get that from a not so good cow. if she can raise a good maternal calf worth retaining her term calves ought to be great.

 

[mwj]

I will agree with a lot of the people that buy cows over heifers but that is not the topic. My question is how can someone else produce those heifers for you without going broke!

ps
Caustic how is your son doing? I hope things are going a lot better for you and your family!!!

 

[bigbull338]

I will agree with a lot of the people that buy cows over heifers but that is not the topic. My question is how can someone else produce those heifers for you without going broke!

ps
Caustic how is your son doing? I hope things are going a lot better for you and your family!!!

the way comm heifer raisers make money is by selling the heifers for $1200 to $1500ea.a reg breeder has to sale his heifers for a $100 a month.that means you give $1600 to $2400 for bred heifers.

 

[S.R.R.]

a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas.

talking about a good moma with the complete package to put that extra 100 to 150 pnds on a terminal calf.

So since you are a "real cattleman" you use a maternal sire to produce terminal calves! ;-) Makes good sense to me! :roll:

Maternal sires are to produce keepers not terminal calves.

 

[aplusmnt]

I will agree with a lot of the people that buy cows over heifers but that is not the topic. My question is how can someone else produce those heifers for you without going broke!

ps
Caustic how is your son doing? I hope things are going a lot better for you and your family!!!

On my figures if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him.