Replacement heifers

[ALACOWMAN]

a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas.

talking about a good moma with the complete package to put that extra 100 to 150 pnds on a terminal calf.

So since you are a "real cattleman" you use a maternal sire to produce terminal calves! ;-) Makes good sense to me! :roll:

Maternal sires are to produce keepers not terminal calves.

you do more talking than you do reading as usual. ive raised plenty of both and i do know what kind of moma it takes for both. ive read enough of your BS post to know your a little man fight'n hard to run with the big dawgs

 

[mwj]

I will agree with a lot of the people that buy cows over heifers but that is not the topic. My question is how can someone else produce those heifers for you without going broke!

ps
Caustic how is your son doing? I hope things are going a lot better for you and your family!!!

On my figures if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him.

So you are telling me that I can raise a bred heifer I can sell her to you and you can make money but if I were to keep the SAME heifer I would have a net loss? :shock: Maybe we should just trade heifers and we would both make money.

 

[novatech]

You guys are way smarter than me. I can,t add 1 +1.


Just thought you might be interested in this.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/beef/compo ... esson6.pdf

 

[Dave]

I have seen reports of those $1,600 heifers too. I also see on Stampede there are a lot of heifers priced at $1,200 that haven't moved at all.

The guy I buy my bulls from who is a real sharp cattleman told me he figures it cost him $1,100 to get a heifer up to calving. I don't think I could do it any better or cheaper than he does it.

From a purely herd improvement stand point you should be better off keeping your own heifers because you are in control of your breeding program. From the money end of things I think you are better off to sell the heifers and buy good mid age bred cows. Cows will give you a quicker return on your money without some of the problems that heifers bring.

Dave

 

[aplusmnt]

I will agree with a lot of the people that buy cows over heifers but that is not the topic. My question is how can someone else produce those heifers for you without going broke!

ps
Caustic how is your son doing? I hope things are going a lot better for you and your family!!!

On my figures if I was selling bred heifers if you notice at the point that I could have sold my heifer bred at 21 months I would have made $385.00 profit from her if I sold her for $1,200.00. I guess this is how the guy selling them makes money.

The loosing money part only comes into play when figuring lost revenue I would have on my end. The guy selling the bred heifers does not have the same lost revenue that I would unless he decided to retain them for him self.

If the average guy makes say $150.00 profit per calf, the guy selling Bred heifers is making the choice to keep them heifers for an extra 15 months to try to squeeze another $150.00 or so profit out of them. I have seen bred commercial heifers go for as much as $1,600 around here so if he gets in this dollar area then it gets more profitable for him.

So you are telling me that I can raise a bred heifer I can sell her to you and you can make money but if I were to keep the SAME heifer I would have a net loss? :shock: Maybe we should just trade heifers and we would both make money.

It is not really that I will loose money it is that I would have had an opportunity to make more money by not tying my money up in a retained heifer for an extra 15 months.

Also as I said in original post, I would have to put some money with that $500 sale calf to buy a bred heifer. So If I am willing to combine a little cash I can take that $500 valued heifer sell her at weaning and do more with it than if I keep her.

 

[S.R.R.]

You guys are way smarter than me. I can,t add 1 +1.


Just thought you might be interested in this.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/beef/compo ... esson6.pdf

Interesting thanks for the link.

 

[S.R.R.]

a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas.

talking about a good moma with the complete package to put that extra 100 to 150 pnds on a terminal calf.

So since you are a "real cattleman" you use a maternal sire to produce terminal calves! ;-) Makes good sense to me! :roll:

Maternal sires are to produce keepers not terminal calves.

you do more talking than you do reading as usual. ive raised plenty of both and i do know what kind of moma it takes for both. ive read enough of your BS post to know your a little man fight'n hard to run with the big dawgs

If you feel the need to pick a fight please keep it in the pms. This is a good post on an interesting topic there is no need for you to pick a fight and get it locked.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

a real.. CATTLEMAN ... can take a maternal sire and do more.. with the right momas.

talking about a good moma with the complete package to put that extra 100 to 150 pnds on a terminal calf.

So since you are a "real cattleman" you use a maternal sire to produce terminal calves! ;-) Makes good sense to me! :roll:

Maternal sires are to produce keepers not terminal calves.

you do more talking than you do reading as usual. ive raised plenty of both and i do know what kind of moma it takes for both. ive read enough of your BS post to know your a little man fight'n hard to run with the big dawgs

If you feel the need to pick a fight please keep it in the pms. This is a good post on an interesting topic there is no need for you to pick a fight and get it locked.

maybe you'll remember your own words when you screw someone thread up.

 

[AngusLimoX]

maybe you'll remember your own words when you screw someone thread up.

Show us where S.R.R. did this boy. ( It's really easy to do the links to threads thing, I am really hoping you will try it ).

S.R.R. contributes - you are, well what?

You have added nothing to this thread but taken pot shots at an individual throughout it.

Show us what a big dog you are!! ( Crikey, did I spell dawg wrong?? ). :lol: :lol:

( Maybe if I spelled it dawg I could be one of the "homey's ). :lol:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

maybe you'll remember your own words when you screw someone thread up.

Show us where S.R.R. did this boy. ( It's really easy to do the links to threads thing, I am really hoping you will try it ).

S.R.R. contributes - you are, well what?

You have added nothing to this thread but taken pot shots at an individual throughout it.

Show us what a big dog you are!! ( Crikey, did I spell dawg wrong?? ). :lol: :lol:

( Maybe if I spelled it dawg I could be one of the "homey's ). :lol:

your right i apologize i contribute nothing.. i like listening to folks who talk out both sides of their mouths dawg is a southern thing stolen by.. well you know. and by the way i got your boy right here chucklehead

 

[aplusmnt]

To get back on topic, one positive thing with retaining heifers would be that small producers can keep one or two heifers compared to all the sales around here that seem to have some good deals on bred heifers like to run them through in groups of 5. Even if you sold 5 calves to go towards the purchase of the breds you would have to add say another $2,500.00 out of pocket to get a group of 5.

Maybe the salebarn runs some singles through, not sure how often that happens.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Aplus I am rebuilding the herd. Hopefully I am a little smarter this run.

Problem is I have to have cattle with ear for this climate. So building the herd has me keeping a heavy Brahman influence. Half the offspring is going to be bull calves and get banded. When I haul those calves to the sale barn I will take a loss on the ear. That's okay for now, but that also figures in to the cost.

I will keep making a few nickels off of hay sales while I am rebuilding. Hopefully that will also help defer losses from retaining heifers. We'll see.

 

[Caustic Burno]

To get back on topic, one positive thing with retaining heifers would be that small producers can keep one or two heifers compared to all the sales around here that seem to have some good deals on bred heifers like to run them through in groups of 5. Even if you sold 5 calves to go towards the purchase of the breds you would have to add say another $2,500.00 out of pocket to get a group of 5.

Maybe the salebarn runs some singles through, not sure how often that happens.

Aplus I see no advantages of heifers other than genetics thats it.
You will never make retainig heifers pencil out after the cost and it is real, and the crap shoot of calving first timers.
This is even more costly for the small operation pencil in one heifer loss of the five.

 

[backhoeboogie]

To get back on topic, one positive thing with retaining heifers would be that small producers can keep one or two heifers compared to all the sales around here that seem to have some good deals on bred heifers like to run them through in groups of 5. Even if you sold 5 calves to go towards the purchase of the breds you would have to add say another $2,500.00 out of pocket to get a group of 5.

Maybe the salebarn runs some singles through, not sure how often that happens.

Aplus I see no advantages of heifers other than genetics thats it.
You will never make retainig heifers pencil out after the cost and it is real, and the crap shoot of calving first timers.
This is even more costly for the small operation pencil in one heifer loss of the five.

Caustic I have to better than that with the pencil. Ouch!

Aplus I do not have good enough of an eye to buy 5 at once. I buy them one at a time or else I don't buy. Try a smaller sale barn.

 

[aplusmnt]

To get back on topic, one positive thing with retaining heifers would be that small producers can keep one or two heifers compared to all the sales around here that seem to have some good deals on bred heifers like to run them through in groups of 5. Even if you sold 5 calves to go towards the purchase of the breds you would have to add say another $2,500.00 out of pocket to get a group of 5.

Maybe the salebarn runs some singles through, not sure how often that happens.

Aplus I see no advantages of heifers other than genetics thats it.
You will never make retainig heifers pencil out after the cost and it is real, and the crap shoot of calving first timers.
This is even more costly for the small operation pencil in one heifer loss of the five.

Caustic I have to better than that with the pencil. Ouch!

Aplus I do not have good enough of an eye to buy 5 at once. I buy them one at a time or else I don't buy. Try a smaller sale barn.

I am not expert on sale barn even in my area, so they might get plenty of singles in them. I am actually going to start hitting some different sale barns next couple months, not for heifers but for some young cows.

We get a lot of heifer sales around here where they run big numbers through and sell them in numbered lots like 3-5 at a time.

I am about to give the sale barn a shot at a few head. Now that I have learned my lesson on them dreaded heifers it is time for me to learn my lesson on them evil sale barn cows ;-) :lol:

 

[backhoeboogie]

I am about to give the sale barn a shot at a few head. Now that I have learned my lesson on them dreaded heifers it is time for me to learn my lesson on them evil sale barn cows ;-) :lol:

If you have a good bull, that is half the offspring. You are looking for good mommas. The prices have probably crept back up. Two months ago the buying was good. It may still be and I haven't checked locally since before Christmas. There may be folks with good cattle but they are running a bit short on hay.

 

[aplusmnt]

Surfed onto this info

Heifer Development Costs

At the 2006 Cornbelt Cow-Calf Conference, Mike Kasten, a commercial producer from Missouri, who is a member of an alliance that sells bred heifers to other producers, outlined their costs of heifer development. Heifers are fed to gain 1.75 to 2.00 lbs per day from weaning to first breeding season in order to achieve optimal reproductive performance. Their costs could likely serve as a benchmark for other cow-calf producers in the Midwest. Following is a summary of their average costs.


Item Cost, $

Grains (2550 lbs) $163.20
Forage (pasture and hay) $66.66
Veterinary and vaccines $11.48
Breeding fees (semen and synchronizing) $32.87
Clean-up bull $6.27
Open heifer charge $18.27
Interest on heifer $38.81
Interest on feed $5.11
Labor $40.86
Sale expense $40.00
Total variable costs $423.98
Value of heifer at weaning $674.25

Total all costs $1098.23

 

[mwj]

If it takes over $160.00 worth of grain and $40.00 a head to sell them there figures leave a lot of room for cheaper replacements. Makes you wonder about replacement programs that would spend almost 3 times as much on grain as they do forage :shock: I do not think these cattle would be my choice for 1st or 3rd calfers!

 

[dun]

If these are the SHO-ME Select heifers the costs are higher then replacements that are retained. The program requires a couple of checks by an outside person plus a couple of other vet related deals. Some friends of ours claim it take $400 more to get a heifer ready for the program then it does for their own replacments.

dun

 

[AngusLimoX]

I am actually going to start hitting some different sale barns next couple months, not for heifers but for some young cows.

We get a lot of heifer sales around here where they run big numbers through and sell them in numbered lots like 3-5 at a time.

I am about to give the sale barn a shot at a few head. Now that I have learned my lesson on them dreaded heifers it is time for me to learn my lesson on them evil sale barn cows ;-) :lol:

If you are herd building a well bred young cow with a heifer calf at her side, bred back to a bull you like cannot be beat, but not likely to find those at the sale barn.

If a heifer appears to have no faults, gains well and is as good or better than the cow herd she may stay, otherwise she goes for freezer meat and money from that goes to buying cows or bred pb heifers.

I understand the closed herd/biosecurity concerns , but I only buy from trusted established breeders who all have good herd health programs.