Replacement females???

[Brute 23]

In all this, I'm curious why having an average cow herd is a bad thing, especially if that average cow calves out an average weight calf year after year after year.
That isn't average.
That's a perfect cow.

It's not if that is where you want to be.

Just don't wonder why your calves are bringing the price on the left and not the right. Right now that about a 0.30 spread so $150ish dollars on a a #525 steer. Multiple that times 10 calves and the avg cow cost you $1500.

So when you go buy those cows... make sure they guarantee you top price calves or all that money you "saved" don't mean squat, long term.

 

[WFfarm]

You can get a dud from your home raised replacement heifers, and from an expensive purchased registered heifers.

 

[Travlr]

This is a competitive business. We help our neighbors and hope the best for them... but at the sale barn we are in it for the money. We manage our money to keep our expenses down, and we manage our cattle to produce the greatest numbers whether it is live calves on the ground or most weaning weight. Anything we do that is one step below our best is one step closer to selling out and moving to the city, living in a cubical and grinding the rest of our lives.

Good cattle make more money. That's a stone cold fact. Cheap, low quality cattle eat just as much grass on a place that has the same inputs as better quality cattle that make more money. If average cattle are good enough, then you better be very good at keeping your expenses down. Personally, my efforts to have the best cattle I could have has always been justified by the money I've made.

 

[mwj]

How do all of these heifer breeders you use keep from going broke? I would think they would be very thin on the ground loosing all that money.

As was mentioned up the thread it costs money and time to do all that shopping.

 

[Heronfish]

It's not if that is where you want to be.

Just don't wonder why your calves are bringing the price on the left and not the right. Right now that about a 0.30 spread so $150ish dollars on a a #525 steer. Multiple that times 10 calves and the avg cow cost you $1500.

So when you go buy those cows... make sure they guarantee you top price calves or all that money you "saved" don't mean squat, long term.

And if I take that average cow and breed her to a good charlois bull, the calves will sell higher than any maternal mating. She will pay out better going that direction.

 

[Brute 23]

And if I take that average cow and breed her to a good charlois bull, the calves will sell higher than any maternal mating. She will pay out better going that direction.

Do what?

Avg cow + good bull = good calf

Good cow + good bull = great calf

I don't care what you do. It's your money. Keep buying my cows and heifers.

If it works for you great. Just remember... because you cant... doesn't mean no one else can.

We have all been promoting doing what works best for your operation. Yall two are the only ones who can't get past thinking yalls way is best.

 

[chaded]

How do all of these heifer breeders you use keep from going broke? I would think they would be very thin on the ground loosing all that money.

As was mentioned up the thread it costs money and time to do all that shopping.

They just take a loss out of the goodness of their heart so other people can be money ahead.

 

[Heronfish]

Do what?

Avg cow + good bull = good calf

Good cow + good bull = great calf

I don't care what you do. It's your money. Keep buying my cows and heifers.

If it works for you great. Just remember... because you cant... doesn't mean no one else can.

We have all been promoting doing what works best for your operation. Yall two are the only ones who can't get past thinking yalls way is best.

Not at all. Obviously there is a disconnect here somewhere. You can skin that cat however you wish.

But beyond that, there is one thing that isn't really up for debate.
It takes a considerable amount of time and money to raise your own replacement heifers and get them into the cowherd.

that's all. It's not free. It's not cheap. It's expensive.

 

[Brute 23]

Not at all. Obviously there is a disconnect here somewhere. You can skin that cat however you wish.

But beyond that, there is one thing that isn't really up for debate.
It takes a considerable amount of time and money to raise your own replacement heifers and get them into the cowherd.

that's all. It's not free. It's not cheap. It's expensive.

How much is considerable? Show me your numbers.

Real numbers...

 

[Travlr]

It takes a considerable amount of time and money to raise your own replacement heifers and get them into the cowherd.

that's all. It's not free. It's not cheap. It's expensive.

What is REALLY expensive is having average cattle with the same inputs, space, grass, hay, vaccines, transport, fences, daily care... as better cattle with the same input demands. Buying a cow because she's the cheapest thing that came through the sale ring, for a reason, and then expecting good results. That... is expensive.
Retained heifers... if you know what you are doing... give better results as an average. Higher conception rates, more live calves, and better weaning weights... and a dependable and consistent look that will top sales.

 

[Heronfish]

How much is considerable? Show me your numbers.

Real numbers...

With too simple math.
Last fall you could have sold that heifer for let's say $1800.
Using that as a base price and using hay at 14c a pound.
Likely on the low side, but she is going to consume roughly $3 a day in hay for 150-180 days.
Then grassing her in the summer. 1.50 a day for 180 days.
And then another winter where she eats 4.50 a day for 180 days.
Add that rough math all together and you have an animal that has cost you 3400 (not even including the real costs) and hasn't even brought a calf into the world yet.

Pick apart my math, I'm sure it's wrong

 

[Travlr]

With too simple math.
Last fall you could have sold that heifer for let's say $1800.
Using that as a base price and using hay at 14c a pound.
Likely on the low side, but she is going to consume roughly $3 a day in hay for 150-180 days.
Then grassing her in the summer. 1.50 a day for 180 days.
And then another winter where she eats 4.50 a day for 180 days.
Add that rough math all together and you have an animal that has cost you 3400 (not even including the real costs) and hasn't even brought a calf into the world yet.

Pick apart my math, I'm sure it's wrong

A lot of people don't have those kinds of expenses.

 

[Warren Allison]

With too simple math.
Last fall you could have sold that heifer for let's say $1800.
Using that as a base price and using hay at 14c a pound.
Likely on the low side, but she is going to consume roughly $3 a day in hay for 150-180 days.
Then grassing her in the summer. 1.50 a day for 180 days.
And then another winter where she eats 4.50 a day for 180 days.
Add that rough math all together and you have an animal that has cost you 3400 (not even including the real costs) and hasn't even brought a calf into the world yet.

Pick apart my math, I'm sure it's wrong

From now until this thread dies, you are just arguing with pigeons, Heronfish. Once Scooter, Skippy and a few others like them have been proven wrong and can no longer come up with what they think are valid arguments to further their point (if they even actually have a point), they then turn to personal attacks, twisting and down right lying about comments a person makes that they don't agree with. People who were capable of "getting" what you are saying, "got it" in the first couple of pages. The trolls on here never will get it, or admit it if they do.

 

[Heronfish]

What is REALLY expensive is having average cattle with the same inputs, space, grass, hay, vaccines, transport, fences, daily care... as better cattle with the same input demands. Buying a cow because she's the cheapest thing that came through the sale ring, for a reason, and then expecting good results. That... is expensive.
Retained heifers... if you know what you are doing... give better results as an average. Higher conception rates, more live calves, and better weaning weights... and a dependable and consistent look that will top sales.

From now until this thread dies, you are just arguing with pigeons, Heronfish. Once Scooter, Skippy and a few others like them have been proven wrong and can no longer come up with what they think are valid arguments to further their point (if they even actually have a point), they then turn to personal attacks, twisting and down right lying about comments a person makes that they don't agree with. People who were capable of "getting" what you are saying, "got it" in the first couple of pages. The trolls on here never will get it, or admit it if they do.

I'm sure youre right. It is enjoyable though.
It is the constant argument of economics vs vanity and pride.

I've never had a cattle buyer or an auctioneer ask me about a calves great great grand momma cow. They just want to see a good calf that has the ability to grow and grow quickly.


I'll argue that that cow bought from a good herd dispersal bred to a good terminal bull makes more money with less risk than a retained bred heifer bred maternal ever can. But then again, I don't care about having the best herd, I only care about trying to make enough money to continue this stupid habit.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

With too simple math.
Last fall you could have sold that heifer for let's say $1800.
Using that as a base price and using hay at 14c a pound.
Likely on the low side, but she is going to consume roughly $3 a day in hay for 150-180 days.
Then grassing her in the summer. 1.50 a day for 180 days.
And then another winter where she eats 4.50 a day for 180 days.
Add that rough math all together and you have an animal that has cost you 3400 (not even including the real costs) and hasn't even brought a calf into the world yet.

Pick apart my math, I'm sure it's wrong

If the heifer you raised does not drop a calf her second winter, you will have a deficit.

If you pay $1800.00 for a young cow due to drop a calf or with small calf at side, feed hay at rate of $4.50/day ($810.00) during first year you now have $2610.00 invested in her. Sell the calf she dropped or had at side for $1500.00 you still have a minimum of $1110.00 invested in the cow.

Second year you put another $810.00 feed into her. You now have $1920.00 invested in the cow. Second calf is better calf or market is better. You get $1700.00 for the calf. You now have $220.00 invested in the cow. You may do better or worse.

I have always understood it may take a purchased cow two years to pay for herself.

Numbers are very interesting toys. And contrary to what we may have been taught, it is very easy for two positive numbers to become a negative.

My math may also have flaws.

 

[Heronfish]

If the heifer you raised does not drop a calf her second winter, you will have a deficit.

If you pay $1800.00 for a young cow due to drop a calf or with small calf at side, feed hay at rate of $4.50/day ($810.00) during first year you now have $2610.00 invested in her. Sell the calf she dropped or had at side for $1500.00 you still have a minimum of $1110.00 invested in the cow.

Second year you put another $810.00 feed into her. You now have $1920.00 invested in the cow. Second calf is better calf or market is better. You get $1700.00 for the calf. You now have $220.00 invested in the cow. You may do better or worse.

I have always understood it may take a purchased cow two years to pay for herself.

Numbers are very interesting toys. And contrary to what we may have been taught, it is very easy for two positive numbers to become a negative.

My math may also have flaws.

My simple brain always had it the same way.
That older bred boughten cow needs three calves to pay for herself and her feed/grass.
At that point any future calves and her salvage value are profit

 

[Travlr]

It is the constant argument of economics vs vanity and pride.

Economics/reality vs ego

I don't care about having the best herd, I only care about trying to make enough money to continue this stupid habit.

Which is why my calves, cows, and bulls were in the top of every market... and why others are just trying to make enough money.

There are people on these threads that have the results to back up their opinions... and others that blow a lot of smoke and cultivate a following by inventing stories... and then calling people names behind their backs instead of to their face. (@Warren Allison )

I guess it's up to you to decide which way you want to go.

 

[kenny thomas]

If the heifer you raised does not drop a calf her second winter, you will have a deficit.

If you pay $1800.00 for a young cow due to drop a calf or with small calf at side, feed hay at rate of $4.50/day ($810.00) during first year you now have $2610.00 invested in her. Sell the calf she dropped or had at side for $1500.00 you still have a minimum of $1110.00 invested in the cow.

Second year you put another $810.00 feed into her. You now have $1920.00 invested in the cow. Second calf is better calf or market is better. You get $1700.00 for the calf. You now have $220.00 invested in the cow. You may do better or worse.

I have always understood it may take a purchased cow two years to pay for herself.

Numbers are very interesting toys. And contrary to what we may have been taught, it is very easy for two positive numbers to become a negative.

My math may also have flaws.

Your number of $810 to feed a heifer or a cow would end it right there for me.

 

[Heronfish]

Economics/reality vs ego



Which is why my calves, cows, and bulls were in the top of every market... and why others are just trying to make enough money.

There are people on these threads that have the results to back up their opinions... and others that blow a lot of smoke and cultivate a following by inventing stories... and then calling people names behind their backs instead of to their face. (@Warren Allison )

I guess it's up to you to decide which way you want to go.

Well here, unless you're breeding to a charlois bull you're calves aren't topping any market.

So unless you have magic cows that can throw big yellow steers and moderate feminine red females, it's all smoke blowing

 

[Twisted]

Your number of $810 to feed a heifer or a cow would end it right there for me.

Me as well, cost me more like $400 but easily less on some.