Replacement females???

[Silver]

I have never seen a top shelf herd of cattle that was cobbled together with purchased heifers. Average yes. Sometimes a bit above average for really good operators with access to the culls of someone else's top shelf herd.
Now not all herds made up from retained replacements are necessarily better than the bought replacement herd, but they sure have the ability to be much better.
I find that the people that push the 'bought is better' theory either don't have the setup and or land to do it or are perfectly happy with an average herd or really don't know excellent cattle to start with. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, just saying how it is.

 

[Travlr]

you can always find some for sale that are as good or better for the same or less money than you can raise one.

Well that's not true...

 

[farmerjan]

The 6 month heifers here are not bringing $3.00 a lb... so that is not a true example... they are in the $2.-2.30 range... so at 500 lbs she would be worth... 1200, less the amount of feed ALREADY in her at that point... so not near as big a "value" to sell... even if she is on the cow and sold off at 500 lbs... she then has to "pay for the cost of keeping the cow" first... so you can't add on that to the cost of keeping her to her first calf cost of 1750.... if you keep her, she has not "paid for the cost of keeping the cow" in money, like a steer would...but she still has that value that can be sold...

No thank you... I will not buy bred heifers again... BTDT and have had several bad experiences with them... will take my chances with my own, that I "cherry pick" to keep...

And @Warren Allison , you keep preaching about keeping these F1 heifer calves off these couple of cows to build a herd for Zeke... by your own words it would be cheaper to go buy the 20 head you feel he needs; and not breed them AI with more expensive sexed semen, then raise them and breed them and not get a saleable calf off them until 30 months.....

 

[Travlr]

You forgot the $3 a pound the retained one could have brought at 6 month weaning. Add that to the $1750 cost to raise her, Now you are looking at $3250 costs to retain. So, buying one for $2500 would be cheaper. And, if it is an open heifer, you have a weaned calf to sell in 15 months, vs raising one that will be 30-31 months old when you sell her 1st calf. So the bought heifer gives you a calf a year earlier, and gives you her 2nd calf at about the same time you get the 1st off the retained one. Twice the revenue. And if you are buying bred heifers, the time until you get calves to sell is reduced even more.

That's amazingly bad math...

 

[wbvs58]

BIOSECURITY, is a big one for me.

Ken

 

[simme]

Ever hear of imaginary numbers? It's an important part of advanced mathematics and engineering. An imaginary number is a number that when multiplied by itself yields a negative number. If you remember much math, you would say that is impossible. Maybe imaginary numbers have found a home.

 

[redcowsrule33]

The cow lines is the reason I do this. Some have been in my family since the 70's. If I was only interested in creating calves to sell I wouldn't do it any more. Yes they pay the bills but the joy is in the cow families for me, pure and simple.

I will second the biosecurity issue.

 

[Heronfish]

I have never seen a top shelf herd of cattle that was cobbled together with purchased heifers. Average yes. Sometimes a bit above average for really good operators with access to the culls of someone else's top shelf herd.
Now not all herds made up from retained replacements are necessarily better than the bought replacement herd, but they sure have the ability to be much better.
I find that the people that push the 'bought is better' theory either don't have the setup and or land to do it or are perfectly happy with an average herd or really don't know excellent cattle to start with. Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, just saying how it is.

For some having that excellent cattle herd is the goal. And that makes sense in the seedstock game.

But for others making money is the ultimate goal. That means buying the most profitable cow out there, and breeding her to a terminal bull to produce high selling calves. If can buy a cow to do that from a dispersal, get those good calves out of her and sell her before she is shelled out, that cow has only made me money.

 

[gcreekrch]

Ever hear of imaginary numbers? It's an important part of advanced mathematics and engineering. An imaginary number is a number that when multiplied by itself yields a negative number. If you remember much math, you would say that is impossible. Maybe imaginary numbers have found a home.

Do imaginary numbers go with imaginary herds on imaginary pastures? There is a game my grandson plays called farming simulator….. maybe that's it.

 

[gcreekrch]

The 6 month heifers here are not bringing $3.00 a lb... so that is not a true example... they are in the $2.-2.30 range... so at 500 lbs she would be worth... 1200, less the amount of feed ALREADY in her at that point... so not near as big a "value" to sell... even if she is on the cow and sold off at 500 lbs... she then has to "pay for the cost of keeping the cow" first... so you can't add on that to the cost of keeping her to her first calf cost of 1750.... if you keep her, she has not "paid for the cost of keeping the cow" in money, like a steer would...but she still has that value that can be sold...

No thank you... I will not buy bred heifers again... BTDT and have had several bad experiences with them... will take my chances with my own, that I "cherry pick" to keep...

And @Warren Allison , you keep preaching about keeping these F1 heifer calves off these couple of cows to build a herd for Zeke... by your own words it would be cheaper to go buy the 20 head you feel he needs; and not breed them AI with more expensive sexed semen, then raise them and breed them and not get a saleable calf off them until 30 months.....

If you can't dazzle with brilliance and experience you baffle with bullpucky.

 

[Brute 23]

For some having that excellent cattle herd is the goal. And that makes sense in the seedstock game.

But for others making money is the ultimate goal. That means buying the most profitable cow out there, and breeding her to a terminal bull to produce high selling calves. If can buy a cow to do that from a dispersal, get those good calves out of her and sell her before she is shelled out, that cow has only made me money.

I've heard that song...

... we'll all be drinkin that free bubble up... and eating that rainbow stew...

 

[Warren Allison]

For some having that excellent cattle herd is the goal. And that makes sense in the seedstock game.

But for others making money is the ultimate goal. That means buying the most profitable cow out there, and breeding her to a terminal bull to produce high selling calves. If can buy a cow to do that from a dispersal, get those good calves out of her and sell her before she is shelled out, that cow has only made me money.

Well said. Down here in the southeast, most people with cattle are in the cow/calf business. Yes. we have some of the top producers of seed stock of many different breeds, and we have some that actually are in the business of raising replacement commercial heifers. No stocker or feeder operations down here. Actually, down here, you are in....or dang sure need to be in...the grass business. Cattle are just how we harvest that crop. Anything you keep after it is weaned, is just eating grass or hay a pregnant cow could be eating. Once it is weaned, the best thing you can do is get shed of it and get another producing cow. I tell people who ask, that the best thing they can do, is devote the most time, effort, resources and money into raising the best grass they can for pasture and hay. 2nd most important, is to use the best bulls you can afford. A close 3rd, but still 3rd in importance, is the cows.

There are people that raise f1 Brah x Herf, or Herf x Brahma....the highest selling replacement heifer there are. How foolish would it be , for one of them to keep an f1 Heifer and breed it back to their Br or Herf bull? Or, when one of their brood cows gets older, to breed it to a bull of the same breed, either Herf or Bra, to try to get a Herf or Br replacement? Breed her for anther f1, sell that calf, cull her, and buy another younger Herf or Brahma cow.

The people who buy these f1 Brafords, breed them to Angus, or homo for polled and black Simm, etc, to get a black, polled calf, that tops the markets. How foolish would it be, to keep one of those 3-way heifers, and breed it back to that black bull?!! Sell it and buy a replacement f1 Braford. Someone in the commercial cow-calf business would do best to be breeding for a terminal cross. If they want to raise replacements heifers, then they need to do that and sell them as such. Or get into the registered seed stock business.

I do understand people raising cows and calves for enjoyment, and like raising babies to see how they turn out, etc. I have just have to call BS on those who say that raising your own is the cheapest and best way to get replacements, and saying all bought cows/heifers are inferior to them. And I don't even want to get started on home-grown, grade, mutt bulls! LOL

 

[farmerjan]

So if it is not profitable to raise up heifers; then where the he// you gonna get these bred heifers that are supposedly cheaper than keeping your own??? Someone has to raise them.....
I never said all bought cows/heifers are inferior... I said I would not buy bred heifers again...
I will put my costs to get a calf on the ground and sold at 500 lbs, against anyone who goes out and spends 2500 (or more right now in this market) on a bought replacement heifer.. and show me where they are financially a better deal...
Enough said, I am done discussing it...Y'all have at it...

 

[Heronfish]

That's amazingly bad math...

In order to calculate the cost of that retained bred heifer, one must take the cost of what you could have sold her at weaning, then the cost of two winters of feed and a summer of grazing. Then try to calculate the lost opportunity cost

Well said. Down here in the southeast, most people with cattle are in the cow/calf business. Yes. we have some of the top producers of seed stock of many different breeds, and we have some that actually are in the business of raising replacement commercial heifers. No stocker or feeder operations down here. Actually, down here, you are in....or dang sure need to be in...the grass business. Cattle are just how we harvest that crop. Anything you keep after it is weaned, is just eating grass or hay a pregnant cow could be eating. Once it is weaned, the best thing you can do is get shed of it and get another producing cow. I tell people who ask, that the best thing they can do, is devote the most time, effort, resources and money into raising the best grass they can for pasture and hay. 2nd most important, is to use the best bulls you can afford. A close 3rd, but still 3rd in importance, is the cows.

There are people that raise f1 Brah x Herf, or Herf x Brahma....the highest selling replacement heifer there are. How foolish would it be , for one of them to keep an f1 Heifer and breed it back to their Br or Herf bull? Or, when one of their brood cows gets older, to breed it to a bull of the same breed, either Herf or Bra, to try to get a Herf or Br replacement? Breed her for anther f1, sell that calf, cull her, and buy another younger Herf or Brahma cow.

The people who buy these f1 Brafords, breed them to Angus, or homo for polled and black Simm, etc, to get a black, polled calf, that tops the markets. How foolish would it be, to keep one of those 3-way heifers, and breed it back to that black bull?!! Sell it and buy a replacement f1 Braford. Someone in the commercial cow-calf business would do best to be breeding for a terminal cross. If they want to raise replacements heifers, then they need to do that and sell them as such. Or get into the registered seed stock business.

I do understand people raising cows and calves for enjoyment, and like raising babies to see how they turn out, etc. I have just have to call BS on those who say that raising your own is the cheapest and best way to get replacements, and saying all bought cows/heifers are inferior to them. And I don't even want to get started on home-grown, grade, mutt bulls! LOL

Completely different breeds here jn Canada, but the same game.
Here a tan calf leads every sale.
And on the remale side, a angus/simmental with a splash of white on the face will lead replacement/bred heifer sale.
And if you want to keep moderate framed, efficient breeding cows around, you have to sell all those calves and replace them with good angus cows.

One has to pick his poison either way. If you're going to breed your own replacements, you're leaving those dollars on the table

 

[Brute 23]

Well I think this thread has run its course. All the adults have shared their actual experiences. Now it's time to let the children play pretend with their imaginary cattle.

 

[gcreekrch]

Well I think this thread has run its course. All the adults have shared their actual experiences. Now it's time to let the children play pretend with their imaginary cattle.

Hey Brute, you ever hear the song "Short People"?

 

[CowboyRam]

Each individual has to make a choice whether to buy replacements or raise their own depending on how they do their operation. Maybe if I was not part of that over-the-hill gang, and had a place for heifers I might consider raising my own as well. At this stage in the game is does not make sense for me to do so. I'm not going to say that anyone is wrong because we all have to make choices as to what work for our operation. There are plusses and minuses no matter what route that is taken. At the end of the day we all have feel good about our operations.

 

[gcreekrch]

In order to calculate the cost of that retained bred heifer, one must take the cost of what you could have sold her at weaning, then the cost of two winters of feed and a summer of grazing. Then try to calculate the lost opportunity cost

Completely different breeds here jn Canada, but the same game.
Here a tan calf leads every sale.
And on the remale side, a angus/simmental with a splash of white on the face will lead replacement/bred heifer sale.
And if you want to keep moderate framed, efficient breeding cows around, you have to sell all those calves and replace them with good angus cows.

One has to pick his poison either way. If you're going to breed your own replacements, you're leaving those dollars on the table

Lots of guys doing what you are doing. I agree if you are putting most Continental breed bulls on cows that a British cow with a touch of exotic in her is the best way to go if you are buying all replacements and selling every calf.

 

[gcreekrch]

Each individual has to make a choice whether to buy replacements or raise their own depending on how they do their operation. Maybe if I was not part of that over-the-hill gang, and had a place for heifers I might consider raising my own as well. At this stage in the game is does not make sense for me to do so. I'm not going to say that anyone is wrong because we all have to make choices as to what work for our operation. There are plusses and minuses no matter what route that is taken. At the end of the day we all have feel good about our operations.

Acclimation is a huge issue for us. Our own do fit better over time.

 

[Brute 23]

Hey Brute, you ever hear the song "Short People"?

I just googled it