Raising your own bulls

[Muddy]

There are polled Holsteins but just like other new polled breeds, they have flaws and not good as the horned breed.

Also you could be surprised that Holsteins can be qualified for CAB, despite of no dairy animals allowed in the CAB program.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There are polled Holsteins but just like other new polled breeds, they have flaws and not good as the horned breed.

Also you could be surprised that Holsteins can be qualified for CAB, despite of no dairy animals allowed in the CAB program.

Explain that comment. CAB requires the LIVE animal to be at least 51% black hided and of BEEF breeding. If you are saying some slip through, that may be - but it is not allowed in their requirements. Live requirements are only the first step. Then they have to pass the carcass requirements and it is doubtful a dairy steer could qualify on the REA. They handily will pass the quality grade though. Heavy milk breeds (dairy) are very high marbling carcasses - that is why Simmental were always listed as the highest marbling Continental breed.

 

[Muddy]

Explain that comment. CAB requires the LIVE animal to be at least 51% black hided and of BEEF breeding. If you are saying some slip through, that may be - but it is not allowed in their requirements. Live requirements are only the first step. Then they have to pass the carcass requirements and it is doubtful a dairy steer could qualify on the REA. They handily will pass the quality grade though. Heavy milk breeds (dairy) are very high marbling carcasses - that is why Simmental were always listed as the highest marbling Continental breed.

Then visiting different plants and see how many Holsteins in the kill pens and get certified as a CAB. It happens A LOT. Too bad you're too busy with raising your mighty cows.

 

[simme]

Then visiting different plants and see how many Holsteins in the kill pens and get certified as a CAB. It happens A LOT. Too bad you're too busy with raising your mighty cows.

From the guy that accuses another guy on here of picking on him.

 

[simme]

I don't know much about the details of CAB, but found this article interesting.

What makes a fed cattle qualify for Certified Angus Beef?

There’s been a lot of misunderstanding about how fed cattle qualify for the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand. Here’s the lowdown on what makes CAB-quality anima

www.beefmagazine.com

 

[cbcr]

Wonder what the origin of them is. Interesting that the proofs are not as high on the polled cattle if they are of the same genetic base as horned ones.

Here are links to two websites with information on the polled Holstein.

Polled Holstein info from Wikopedia

https://www.farmanddairy.com/news/history-of-polled-holsteins-is-online/9588.html

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't know much about the details of CAB, but found this article interesting.

What makes a fed cattle qualify for Certified Angus Beef?

There’s been a lot of misunderstanding about how fed cattle qualify for the Certified Angus Beef (CAB) brand. Here’s the lowdown on what makes CAB-quality anima

www.beefmagazine.com

Nice article - kinda agrees with what I posted -----for the record Muddy "unfriended me". LOL I'm being punished.
thanks for the information about polled Holsteins. I had not heard that - because I have been too busy with my "mighty cows". Thanks Muddy, no one has ever referred to them that way.
Muddy said, "I put you on my ignore list.
Yesterday at 10:53 PM
And you have been so rude to several of my Facebook friends due to your snobby attitude and you thinks you're better than them."

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Muddy, I thought you put me on your ignore list - doesn't that mean you don't see my posts???

 

[Nick Wagner]

Explain that comment. CAB requires the LIVE animal to be at least 51% black hided and of BEEF breeding. If you are saying some slip through, that may be - but it is not allowed in their requirements. Live requirements are only the first step. Then they have to pass the carcass requirements and it is doubtful a dairy steer could qualify on the REA. They handily will pass the quality grade though. Heavy milk breeds (dairy) are very high marbling carcasses - that is why Simmental were always listed as the highest marbling Continental breed.

You should see the uproar at the county fair in the feeder calf divisions. Every year. They have dairy, dairy beef, and beef classes. I'm not sure anybody leaves happy. Dairy calves forced to show in the dairy beef, too beefy looking calves in the dairy class. I believe CAB tries to exclude dairy cattle but as the USPS says, if it fits it ships.

 

[farmerjan]

There are polled holsteins, polled jerseys, and probably most every breed of dairy cattle has at least one polled offshoot. One of the reasons for it is to stop some of the criticism by all the do-gooder animal rights idiots on how horrible dehorning is. Yes it is not pleasant, but cows gouging other cows, and people getting hurt is one of the reasons that dehorning started. Plus it is less work for the dairyman.... I treasure my one longhorn cow though... she does not like strange dogs in the field and I am glad that she is that protective..... she will shake her head at a cow that gets in her space sometimes, but I have never seen her use her horns on any of the others and they do not seem shy around her at all so I don't think she is aggressive with them in general. Some of the dairy cows can get pretty b%$@y with their horns.....

 

[Ky hills]

There are polled holsteins, polled jerseys, and probably most every breed of dairy cattle has at least one polled offshoot. One of the reasons for it is to stop some of the criticism by all the do-gooder animal rights idiots on how horrible dehorning is. Yes it is not pleasant, but cows gouging other cows, and people getting hurt is one of the reasons that dehorning started. Plus it is less work for the dairyman.... I treasure my one longhorn cow though... she does not like strange dogs in the field and I am glad that she is that protective..... she will shake her head at a cow that gets in her space sometimes, but I have never seen her use her horns on any of the others and they do not seem shy around her at all so I don't think she is aggressive with them in general. Some of the dairy cows can get pretty b%$@y with their horns.....

We have a couple longhorns but only one with horns. She is just as you describe. Our other cows don't seem threatened by her either she doesn't run the others away from the feed troughs or hay like I have seen some with horns do.

 

[Warren Allison]

error

 

[Warren Allison]

That's true, you can breed around and avoid heterozygous black, but they are a reality within several breeds including Black Herefords. That is the same point that I and others have been making in regards to the topic of red Angus.
From what I hear there is some interest in black Herefords locally. I would be interested in knowing how the black Hereford sired calves from those Brangus calves perform and sell, would also like to see a side by side comparison of some sired but traditional Hereford bulls as well.

I went back down there today to finish laying out some of the working facilities inside their new multi-purpose building/covered arena. All of the spring steers from the Hereford bulls x Brangus cows and Brangus bulls x Hereford cows had all been sold except for 8 born the last of March. Great looking set of black baldies...not a one of them red, but their Brangus are all homozygous black. I am guessing they are gonna weigh 800-900 pounds. I would have asked what the earlier ones weighed, and how much they brought per pound, but there was no one there that would know. These steers will go the sale Monday. They had that herd of reg Herefords and the two reg Hereford bulls in a pasture behind the barns, ready to be picked up by the new owner. Very nice red Herefords in great body condition, seeing as how they had all just weaned 900 lb calves anywhere from 1-4 weeks ago. Someone bought as good a herd of Registered Herefords as I have ever seen. The 2 bulls, 2. The weaned heifers were all together in a pasture, and we drove them down the road ( dirt road) a mile to another one. All black baldies, and no difference between the Br bull x Her cow, or Her bull x Br cow that I could see. The wrangler said you could tell by the ear tag numbers and letters, which was which. He also said that in the past, in his opinion. the heifers with Hereford mommas tended to be gentler than the ones with Brangus mommas. These heifers are all to be sold to the same outfit that are getting the Hereford cows and bulls, so I dunno if we will ever know how they are performing, to compare with these new Brangus x Black Hereford heifers born last month. I don't see how they could look any better. but again, the purpose was to get black baldy replacement heifers that were homozygous for black. Those Brangus x Herefords are 1/2 Hereford, 5/16ths Angus, and 3/16ths Brahma and heterozygous for black. The Brangus x Black Herefords are 1/2 Angus, 5/16ths Hereford, and 3/16ths Brahma, and homozygous for black. This is the exact same as you get when you breed a reg Angus to a reg Braford, a very popular and successful cross down here and points further south, except this cross is 1/2 Angus, 5/16ths Hereford, and 3/16ths Brahma, but heterozygous for black. So, these people may have hit on a niche, with their particular cross being homozygous black.

I keep forgetting my camera....I use a flip phone!! I have 2 desktops and 2 laptops in my office, and 3 digital cameras, so I just want a PHONE.. But, I have to go get pictures when the facility is finished for the insurance (I am a commercial insurance broker, and these people are my clients. After meeting them,. I ended up selling them some horses, and they have also hired me to consult on building this big covered facility. It will have an arena for working their horses, and to use for a sale barn, with working pens and roping boxes in one end, and a small office and an AI lab at the other other). ). I will make some pics of the calves then, and post them on here when I get them.

 

[Ky hills]

Sounds like they have a nice setup, and good cattle.

 

[elkwc]

That's true. There are also several folks that have had solid colored calves out of registered red Herefords too.

Yes and I feel it happens more than many realize. We had one that sired little if any white on their face. Our current sires sire a nice bald face. Some bloodlines don't carry the bald face gene any longer

 

[gizmom]

When the CAB program was started, and a very humble start it was, they had a simple goal, to increase demand for angus cattle. They picked a pretty good time to start, some of you will remember the ridiculously tall giraffes winning the cattle shows in the 80's. Legs and hair never got my digestive juices flowing, to me it seemed as an industry we lost our way. The CAB program has a simple base, quality and consistency, a pleasurable eating experience every time. We've all noticed how the beef at home is much better than what comes from the store, no wonder beef demand has eroded. Growing up, my family had both Herefords and Angus. I can vouch that under the hide they look and taste the same when fed side by side. But I also know it cost the same to raise them and today that black hide brings more money at market, thanks to the CAB program. I would note there was no law stopping any of the other breed associations or anyone else from starting a similar program and today there are imitators, why didn't they start earlier?

As to your experience starting an angus herd, it is my observation that many folks who consider themselves purebred breeders and spend the time and money to register their stock then think every calf born is a breeding animal. Which takes us back to where this thread started.

We attended a program back in the early 90's. I can't remember the speakers name but she worked for a major packer. I do remember one point she made and that was the biggest problem with Angus breeders was none of them owned a knife! When we go through the culling process I always think about that comment. As breeders we need to keep our knives sharp.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Red Angus is great (in my opinion) if you want to maintain maternal coloring and improve general conformation of the maternal line.
For those of you in Rio Linda, this does not imply that every calf will look like the mother; however if you select progeny that does look
like the mother you will eventually get 7/8-15/16 and up maternal colored calves that can hold their own in quality.
Black cattle crowded in a pond on a hot day while the red and light colored are grazing and doing well has never been my opinion of
a good idea.. Do what works for you, keep records, and cut costs where you can. Cow in water not good. Cow eating grass , good.

 

[Dixie2542]

The breeder said he was going to hold the papers. As a commercial breeder I don't care. I use her to raise replacement females and bulls we can use but not to sale

Elkwc, out of curiosity why did the breeder want to hold the papers? (even if you didn't care) just curious why he'd not just cancel them if sold commercial

 

[FungusProudKY31]

We attended a program back in the early 90's. I can't remember the speakers name but she worked for a major packer. I do remember one point she made and that was the biggest problem with Angus breeders was none of them owned a knife! When we go through the culling process I always think about that comment. As breeders we need to keep our knives sharp.

I think it goes deeper than culling at weaning. There will always be some of that but as you learn your environment and management the cull rates should decrease, or have the option to decrease, if the breeding program is also improving with experience. Where I see problems with Angus breeders in general is that they never get a home herd base and then the unknowns of the new this and new that keeps the unknowns coming every year.

The quote about the cows in the pond is a sure sign that something is wrong on the adaptation of the amphibious cows in the herd. We went to troughs and still graze fescue or a fescue mix year round and that helped cull cows so that the weaning culling would be lessened.

 

[gizmom]

I think it goes deeper than culling at weaning. There will always be some of that but as you learn your environment and management the cull rates should decrease, or have the option to decrease, if the breeding program is also improving with experience. Where I see problems with Angus breeders in general is that they never get a home herd base and then the unknowns of the new this and new that keeps the unknowns coming every year.

The quote about the cows in the pond is a sure sign that something is wrong on the adaptation of the amphibious cows in the herd. We went to troughs and still graze fescue or a fescue mix year round and that helped cull cows so that the weaning culling would be lessened.

I agree culling is a year round endeavor, I should also add that criteria should change every year. By that I mean if we're doing our jobs as breeders our calves should be getting better each year, and our target for retention should be tougher each year. I'm not exposing myself well but we should never be satisfied we should always be trying to improve on last year.