raising a bull vs buying

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jvicars

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i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?
 

Frankie

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jvicars":2udwvct6 said:
i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?

Probably. But it depends on what you're trying to do and why. Is he a well bred bull? Good genetics? Good, productive, dam? Sire? Are his EPDs good? Then it might be worth while.

When you're bull shopping and see a young, well grown out bull, you may not realize how much money and time have been put into getting him to that stage. If you're going to take a 700 lb weaned bull calf and get him to 1100 lbs as a yearling, that's going to be a lot of feed and it seems to be getting more expensive every day. The growth and development of a young bull on feed will reflect, at least in part, the performance of his calves on feed. Plus you're probably going to want to keep him separate from the heifers and cows while he's developing.

Now if you answered all the questions in the first paragraph and would be happy with a bull that might not look great, but has good genetic potential, it might be a good thing to do.

I understand your delima. We're going back to commercial cattle sometime soon, but watching these bull calves being born, it's hard to think about not sending them to the test station and see how they'll do. :?
 

bigbull338

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your the only one that can decide to raise the bull.as for buying vs raising a bull thats up to the person.but i will tell you a few things.as i myself am raising a herd bull.you need to have a pen/pasture where you can raise the bull.an keep him till you want to turn him with the cows.now you need tobe prepared for the cost of raising that bull.bulls arnt cheap to raise.im feeding my bull all the feed he will eat.by my guess ill have $600 or more in feed costs an other costs tied up in the bull by the time he is 18 to 20 months old.i figure he will eat 15lbs of feed a day.when all is said an done ill have tween $1500 an $2000 in the bull.now if i bought a herd bull it would cost me $2000 to $2500 or more.but the bottomline is this know the genetics of the bull your raising.
 

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jvicars":3vc8su4f said:
i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?

Well jvicars, what be ya intentions? Ya tryin ta guess at a sire for the next great strain a beef? Are ya wantin ta see how good ya judgement be? The reason I ask is, the bull I currently be runnin was just like what ya seem ta have. I bought him at the sale barn at 500 lbs an brought him home ta develop into a breeder for my limited, closed herd. I grant that I knew nothin about him and indeed it was a big chance ta take accordin ta some, but my livelyhood depends not on my success. I say this, raisin the guy has been a a great experience. I got lucky, I suppose, in that he throws small calves, what gain quickly.I'd also like ta think it was just a bit a me knowin what I was lookin at when I saw him in the ring, dontcha know? Fot the chance I took, I won me some advantages. I know just about exactly how old he be. I got me a bull what knows me. I got me a bull what will sire my calves for some years ta come.I know what his record of vaccination be. Exactly. He looks at this place as home and bein not a fool, he knows where the good stuff ta eat be every evenin. He be not prone ta travel, his contentment with his life here and his small herd a girls be the stuff dreams be made of, I suppose.He be not just a bull I happen ta be ownin, he be my bull.That be what I got outa takin a chance on a young bull. Most probably think I be crazy, many others won't care, but if ya gut tells ya ta take a chance on im, go for it. 8) Good luck.
 

backhoeboogie

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jvicars":1nm225nd said:
i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?

Bigbull gave you some insight into costs. Best to think it out and be sure before you go throwing money into him.

I saw one at birth that had the birthing trait I wanted. He is suited for the climate I am in. Instead of banding him new born, I gave him some time. By weaning time, the decision was made. I had bought his dam heavy bred so I sold her. I didn't put him on a feed bucket but rather pastured him, which really helped on cost.
 

dun

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Check out the thread about retaining heifers, same deal applys.
 

Brute 23

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backhoeboogie":hkyivg38 said:
jvicars":hkyivg38 said:
i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?

Bigbull gave you some insight into costs. Best to think it out and be sure before you go throwing money into him.

I saw one at birth that had the birthing trait I wanted. He is suited for the climate I am in. Instead of banding him new born, I gave him some time. By weaning time, the decision was made. I had bought his dam heavy bred so I sold her. I didn't put him on a feed bucket but rather pastured him, which really helped on cost.

Why did you sell her? Maybe I missed an obvious. :|
 

backhoeboogie

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Brute 23":3ta7ewtz said:
backhoeboogie":3ta7ewtz said:
jvicars":3ta7ewtz said:
i have always been told its better to buy a bull than raise one. i have a bull calf i would like to watch to see how he grows since as a 2 month old he looks promising. am i wasting my time?

Bigbull gave you some insight into costs. Best to think it out and be sure before you go throwing money into him.

I saw one at birth that had the birthing trait I wanted. He is suited for the climate I am in. Instead of banding him new born, I gave him some time. By weaning time, the decision was made. I had bought his dam heavy bred so I sold her. I didn't put him on a feed bucket but rather pastured him, which really helped on cost.

Why did you sell her? Maybe I missed an obvious. :|

To preclude potential inbreeding. She went back out heavy bred from the Char bull. She fetched quite a few more nickels than what I originally paid. She came from Mineral Wells when some PBs were dumped at the sale barn out of an estate. She left with a better BCS and was sold at Dublin.
 
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jvicars

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few questions on feeding him.

i rarely feed any of my cows or steer calfs. they cow well with minerials and grass. why would i need to feed him feed every day? I am in FL so I have grass most of the year. i dont want a bull that requires feed to stay sound. I have black angus bulls on my herd now. they stay in good shape all year round with little feed.

what am i missing. is feeding them required to get them to a sustainable point as a herd bull?
 

novatech

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There is only one question and one answer. Will he improve your herd or sale calves by retaining him?
If he is good enough sell him to someone else. Always go with a bull that will improve what you have.
 

Brute 23

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jvicars":2v55drpf said:
few questions on feeding him.

i rarely feed any of my cows or steer calfs. they cow well with minerials and grass. why would i need to feed him feed every day? I am in FL so I have grass most of the year. i dont want a bull that requires feed to stay sound. I have black angus bulls on my herd now. they stay in good shape all year round with little feed.

what am i missing. is feeding them required to get them to a sustainable point as a herd bull?

With any animal you want to make sure they have adequate nutrition while they are maturing to optimize their genetics. That starts with the mother through several years of age. Some people can achieve this through grass only, some supplement ground feed when the grass in not producing what the animal needs. There are alot of variables; breed, location, quality of pasture, ect...

An animal rased soley on feed should not be put into the beef industy for producing offspring. That animal should become hamburgers and steaks.;-)
 

ALX.

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Brute 23":2jqk6a31 said:
An animal rased soley on feed should not be put into the beef industy for producing offspring. That animal should become hamburgers and steaks.;-)

Spelling aside, in addressing your post, Mr. Ranch Manager, why does feed influence whats in his nuts?
 

MikeC

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An animal rased soley on feed should not be put into the beef industy for producing offspring. That animal should become hamburgers and steaks.

By the same token, a bull raised on grass alone should not be a breeding animal in the beef industry because 99.9% of the calves that are harvested today are fattened in a feedlot on grain and hay.
 
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jvicars

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i understand the feedlot concern however in FL most of the cattleman I know rarely feed unless they are short on grass or trading in cattle. I want a bull that grows out good on grass. I dont want one I need to feed 20lbs of feed to get him up to size. A good bull for me is one that can improve the herd and holdup well all year round. I have 2 angus bulls that hold up well on grass only. The bulls calf is question is baldie/charloias cross. So its got some size. I dont want to add size and high weaning weights.
 

novatech

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Typically the baldy/ char cross is bred that way to be terminal. He developed that way because of heterosis. You will not have the same heterosis gain if you decide to use him for a herd sire for terminal production. What can he do to improve your herd?
He is a composite unproven bull with no data to back up anything.
Keeping a bull that you raised is a pride thing. Don't let it get in the way of better judgement.
I posted this site before and I urge you to read it.
http://www.albcia.org/Bull_Selection_101.html
Look at the bull as if you were looking for a bull to purchase.
 

novatech

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Angus/Brangus":1yqv1n30 said:
Novatech, what we don't understand is what the goals of this individual are!!!! There are many folks out there with cattle, with little money, who just want a bull, and take their chances as to "output" of that bull. So, we have to address that situation as well. With that said, raising a bull, off grass, MIGHT produce a decent herd bull for someone. There won't be any "epd's" written up but it could still be a good, general, herd bull for a guy that just wants to produce some calves for the sale barn. Sometimes we lock ourselves into "the top echelon of genetics" when , in fact, that is a game for those with a jingle in their pocket. What about those without the "jingle"?
Better off selling some cows to afford a better bull than go backward. What gain is there in using a terminal bred bull? He does not have to go out and buy a national show winner. He already has 2 angus bulls so why go backwards with a conglomeration of genetics having a slim chance of producing anything better than he is already producing.
As far as grass fed/or grain it does not matter as long as the grass has enough quantity and quality to keep a prospective bull developing properly I would say go for it.
 

Wewild

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The only bulls we have kept have been for heifer use.
 

TheBullLady

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I think the biggest reason most breeders don't raise their own bulls is because of the genetic similarity in their herd. Most likely any bull you raise is going to be closely related to other herd mates.. so what do you use him on?

If we have a good breeding bull, I'll get him to breeding age (sorry.. I feed my bulls too) and sell him, and buy a bull to use on my herd.
 

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