Raids - illegal

[aplusmnt]

My emotions tend to get the best of me only because I have been around so many of these "illegals" in the past and have a great respect for them and what they are trying to do. Migrate out of their own deplorable conditions to have a chance at the American dream. We let be nice never everyone else from every other country do it, why not them. They come here work their asses off, only to provide a better life for themselves and their children. (Many of whom they dont see for years).

I believe we have allowed many Mexicans to come here legally over the years. I do not know the statistics but I would wager that more Mexicans have been granted immigration than any other country.

I respect that they want a chance at the American Dream, but do not respect that they are not willing to make sacrifices in their own country to emulate the American Dream and have their own Mexican Dream.

Mexico has many resources and plenty of labor force. They need to clean up their own mess and not run away looking for an easy way out. Many Americans died in the Revolutionary and Civil War to make that American Dream. They need to stand up and fight for a new Mexican Dream!

Loads of folks make the argument that they are milking our system while they are here. Although I dont doubt that it does happen, the ones I have encountered come here for the Almighty Dollar and nothing else. They cannot get that milking the system, they get that by working their asses off.

I am done with this topic as it is not good for my health.....

I am sure you have experienced the good side of illegal immigration but the bad sides records stand for itself. The millions of tax dollars that they suck out of the system for health care, welfare, and through the school systems are indisputable.

I forgot how many new class rooms a day that have to be built in California alone just to house the new illegal children. It was some stupid number like 100 class rooms ever day just to keep up with the growing numbers. Many hospitals in California are also facing financial problems or closings due to the strain they put on the health system.

 

[aplusmnt]

I asked this some time back but never got an answer so I will try again. Can not a Mexican resident come to the U.S. on vacation, like we do going over there?

I don't know the answer to your question, aplus, but I have to wonder how they would obtain a visa to do that. The pay scale in Mexico is so bad, who could afford to even go on vacation - much less be able to afford a passport that would allow them to enter the US? I would also think that, because of the illegal problem, they would come under some very close scrutiny and face being denied? I could very well be wrong on all counts, though.

When we went to both Canada and Mexico we did not have to have a passport. But it seems I have heard that might change. Its been a couple years since I went to Mexico and 20 to Canada.

I know some of them pay smugglers to get them over here, so they do come up money for that, probably much of it from family already in the states.

But it is truly a question, I would like to know more about the laws of visiting each country going both directions.

I know when we went to Mexico a couple years ago, there was no stopping points going in, but when we returned we had to answer questions and declare any purchases. While we were doing that a Mexican fellow ran right by are car, across and intersection and down the road on foot. Guess he was going to do some of that shopping I talked about. :lol: No one chased him they just kept checking cars.

 

[msscamp]

I asked this some time back but never got an answer so I will try again. Can not a Mexican resident come to the U.S. on vacation, like we do going over there?

I don't know the answer to your question, aplus, but I have to wonder how they would obtain a visa to do that. The pay scale in Mexico is so bad, who could afford to even go on vacation - much less be able to afford a passport that would allow them to enter the US? I would also think that, because of the illegal problem, they would come under some very close scrutiny and face being denied? I could very well be wrong on all counts, though.

When we went to both Canada and Mexico we did not have to have a passport. But it seems I have heard that might change. Its been a couple years since I went to Mexico and 20 to Canada.

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit I've never been out of the US but, after reading your statement about not needing a passport to cross into Mexico, I believe you're right. I think, based on stories I've heard from people visiting Canada, that Canada does require a passport, though. Obviously, I can't swear to that, though.

I know some of them pay smugglers to get them over here, so they do come up money for that, probably much of it from family already in the states.

I would imagine you're right on that point, as well.

But it is truly a question, I would like to know more about the laws of visiting each country going both directions.

I hadn't really given it much thought before, but now I'm curious as to the answer as well.

I know when we went to Mexico a couple years ago, there was no stopping points going in, but when we returned we had to answer questions and declare any purchases. While we were doing that a Mexican fellow ran right by are car, across and intersection and down the road on foot. Guess he was going to do some of that shopping I talked about. :lol: No one chased him they just kept checking cars.

I guess so.

 

[chrisy]

try looking on the Google pages for the laws, of travel through...Mexican and Mexican't territory.

as for terrorists they don't smuggle into a Country they just come by ordinary air flights and meet up with their counterparts on arrival. So no-one knows who they are until they have done their dastardly deed. They travel as a couple or part of families, very devious and cunning. some have even travelled as students on exchange trips. so what can one do to stop it, who knows? thats IMO anyway.

 

[Frankie]

...*the number of Border Patrol agents would be doubled, border fencing would be strengthened and employers who hire undocumented workers would face fines.,,



Think it will work??

It's a start. Frankly, I don't have much problem with the ones that are already here. My problem is that virtually nothing has been done to slow the flow of illegals, even post-9/11. I still don't think there's any way to check on people who come here legally, on some kind of visa, then just don't leave when the visa expires!

 

[novatech]

Won,t change much. If they had 5 grand they would not have to be here in the first place. The gov. finally figured out how to make money off them. While still keeping their SS and income tax money. Same reason alcohol and cigeretts are legal.

As far as visa's are concerned, it is a joke. They get a visa through one company and end up working for another when they get here. They can only work here for 10 months at a time with a visa. The employeer must reapply every year for new workers at a great deal of expense and time. Most employeers would much rather have documented workers but it seems as the gov. does everything they can to hinder the process through burocracy.

 

[aplusmnt]

I do not think it will make much if any difference at all. Many will not bother with it, for money reasons or the fact they do not want to go home for a year.

We already have laws in place and they are not enforced. So why do we think any new laws will be carried out?

Just a way for gov to make a little cash for those that do follow it, and get voters off their back. They can say they did something.

Ten years from now, this new legislation will make NO difference.

Bush should veto it! But he won't!

Newt summed it up best I have heard.hy reward someone who started their career in America by breaking the law"?

 

[Alice]

I agree, it's a crap bill...but the president is behind it.

Why would the president veto a bill that he is backing?

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

I agree, it's a crap bill...but the president is behind it.

Why would the president veto a bill that he is backing?

Alice

The bill is proposed by McCain and Kennedy. The president is just talking like he approves of it. He should not be approving of it, he should be saying he would Veto it.

This should be a death sentence for McCain and his hopes for being President. He just got scratched off my short list, because of this ridiculous proposal. He should be smart enough not to jump in bed with Kennedy on any issue!

 

[Frankie]

I agree, it's a crap bill...but the president is behind it.

Why would the president veto a bill that he is backing?

Alice

The bill is proposed by McCain and Kennedy. The president is just talking like he approves of it. He should not be approving of it, he should be saying he would Veto it.

This should be a death sentence for McCain and his hopes for being President. He just got scratched off my short list, because of this ridiculous proposal. He should be smart enough not to jump in bed with Kennedy on any issue!

You can blame Kennedy all you want, but five Republican Senators were in the negotiations that created this bill with only two or three Dems. Harry Reid says it's a start. Nancy Pelosi says she won't bring it up for a vote unless 70 Republicans will vote for it. It will be a bipartisan law or nothing. She's not going to let you hang this thing around the necks of the Democratic Party. Bush will support it, but he doesn't carry much weight with his own party these days. So we'll see what happens.

 

[aplusmnt]

I agree, it's a crap bill...but the president is behind it.

Why would the president veto a bill that he is backing?

Alice

The bill is proposed by McCain and Kennedy. The president is just talking like he approves of it. He should not be approving of it, he should be saying he would Veto it.

This should be a death sentence for McCain and his hopes for being President. He just got scratched off my short list, because of this ridiculous proposal. He should be smart enough not to jump in bed with Kennedy on any issue!

You can blame Kennedy all you want, but five Republican Senators were in the negotiations that created this bill with only two or three Dems. Harry Reid says it's a start. Nancy Pelosi says she won't bring it up for a vote unless 70 Republicans will vote for it. It will be a bipartisan law or nothing. She's not going to let you hang this thing around the necks of the Democratic Party. Bush will support it, but he doesn't carry much weight with his own party these days. So we'll see what happens.

I do not blame Kennedy as much as I blame McCain! Kennedy I expect such things, but McCain is running for presidency as a so called conservative. He should be tougher on these issues and separate himself from such liberal crap and people like Kennedy. I also hold Bush accountable for even hinting he will approve it.

People are acting like well it is the best compromise we can get, that anything is better than nothing. Well that is a bunch of crap. If it is a bad law then stop it. Write one that is good, one that punishes business severely for hiring illegals and that will not reward a criminal act by an illegal by ever allowing them to get a green card.

If we truly need workers then Send the criminals home and grant the ones that stayed at home and are going through the legal means to get here a green card.

Never should a person that broke the law with their first step into the U.S. be allowed to get amnesty! And no senator or President should support any legislation that allows such, Republican or Democrat it does not matter.

 

[Frankie]

I agree, it's a crap bill...but the president is behind it.

Why would the president veto a bill that he is backing?

Alice

The bill is proposed by McCain and Kennedy. The president is just talking like he approves of it. He should not be approving of it, he should be saying he would Veto it.

This should be a death sentence for McCain and his hopes for being President. He just got scratched off my short list, because of this ridiculous proposal. He should be smart enough not to jump in bed with Kennedy on any issue!

You can blame Kennedy all you want, but five Republican Senators were in the negotiations that created this bill with only two or three Dems. Harry Reid says it's a start. Nancy Pelosi says she won't bring it up for a vote unless 70 Republicans will vote for it. It will be a bipartisan law or nothing. She's not going to let you hang this thing around the necks of the Democratic Party. Bush will support it, but he doesn't carry much weight with his own party these days. So we'll see what happens.

I do not blame Kennedy as much as I blame McCain! Kennedy I expect such things, but McCain is running for presidency as a so called conservative. He should be tougher on these issues and separate himself from such liberal crap and people like Kennedy. I also hold Bush accountable for even hinting he will approve it.

People are acting like well it is the best compromise we can get, that anything is better than nothing. Well that is a bunch of crap. If it is a bad law then stop it. Write one that is good, one that punishes business severely for hiring illegals and that will not reward a criminal act by an illegal by ever allowing them to get a green card.

If we truly need workers then Send the criminals home and grant the ones that stayed at home and are going through the legal means to get here a green card.

Never should a person that broke the law with their first step into the U.S. be allowed to get amnesty! And no senator or President should support any legislation that allows such, Republican or Democrat it does not matter.

How about the other Republican Senators who were in the negotiations: Arlen Spector and Lindsey Graham were there, too. Do they get condemned along with McCain?

As A/B said, it's not a law yet. Contact your Senators and Congressmen and voice you opinion.

BTW, you're not listening. They're all over TV saying "this isn't amnesty." :lol:

 

[Alice]

Bush is even saying this isn't amnesty...he's saying something like...this isn't amnesty; this allows the immigrants to live without animosity. "This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity."

Doublespeak! Don't tell me he's not backing that bill...

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

How about the other Republican Senators who were in the negotiations: Arlen Spector and Lindsey Graham were there, too. Do they get condemned along with McCain?

As A/B said, it's not a law yet. Contact your Senators and Congressmen and voice you opinion.

BTW, you're not listening. They're all over TV saying "this isn't amnesty." :lol:

I blame them all, off with all their heads :lol:

My point on McCain specifically was that he want to be our next President. And I do not think this is going to help him get there! He is the dumbest of all of them, he had the most to loose. The guy makes some serious dumb mistakes in his campaign!

The sure use the word amnesty allot for something that is not suppose to be so. If you have to try to sell something so hard, it probably is what it seems to be.

Somehow we need to turn this away from politics before it gets locked.

An attempt!

It is ironic that Spanish is not the native language of the Mexican people. But as they were over taken and it was forced as their primary language now history is repeating itself and soon Spanish will be the primary language in the U.S. Bought some Hominy the other day and Spanish was the large print and English was the small print. :x

 

[aplusmnt]

Bush is even saying this isn't amnesty...he's saying something like...this isn't amnesty; this allows the immigrants to live without animosity. "This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity."

Doublespeak! Don't tell me he's not backing that bill...

Alice

Guess it depends on what you mean by backing, to me you are making it out like this is some legislation he is proposing. When it is a joint effort between McCain and Kennedy and a handful of other Senators. The White house has nothing to do with it or its wording. It is those Senators baby, Presidents only involvement is in regards that he is speaking out like he is in favor of it.

And He is wrong for doing so, he should be speaking out about how he will veto it like he did with the legislation in regards a time to pull out of Iraq.

Someone needs to emerge from this as a strong conservative with serious regards to our borders and kill it! I will be anxious to see who this will be? Sure and the heck is not McCain, Kennedy or Bush.

 

[Alice]

Bush is even saying this isn't amnesty...he's saying something like...this isn't amnesty; this allows the immigrants to live without animosity. "This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity."

Doublespeak! Don't tell me he's not backing that bill...

Alice

Guess it depends on what you mean by backing, to me you are making it out like this is some legislation he is proposing. When it is a joint effort between McCain and Kennedy and a handful of other Senators. The White house has nothing to do with it or its wording. It is those Senators baby, Presidents only involvement is in regards that he is speaking out like he is in favor of it.

And He is wrong for doing so, he should be speaking out about how he will veto it like he did with the legislation in regards a time to pull out of Iraq.

Someone needs to emerge from this as a strong conservative with serious regards to our borders and kill it! I will be anxious to see who this will be? Sure and the heck is not McCain, Kennedy or Bush.

Guess it depends on what you mean by backing, to me you are making it out like this is some legislation he is proposing.

Nope, I'm not saying that at all. President's don't write legislation...

Presidents only involvement is in regards that he is speaking out like he is in favor of it.

So, that's not backing it? :shock: How so?

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

Yep he seems to be backing it, just making the point he is not behind its creation.

And I agree he is wrong for even suggesting he would support it.

 

[Alice]

aplus

Someone needs to emerge from this as a strong conservative with serious regards to our borders and kill it! I will be anxious to see who this will be? Sure and the heck is not McCain, Kennedy or Bush.

Most of Washington agrees, that if there is not some solution approved real soon then there won't be another chance until sometime after the presidential elections. - Over 1.5 years from now. Can we afford to wait?

Personally, I like the idea of municipalities taking control of the issue - like Farmers Branch, Texas. The federal level can't seem to get the job done without a lot of pork thrown in.

(yep, be careful, the administrators and monitors seem to dislike politics and scripture )

I'm afraid Farmers Branch my be an anomaly...wonder how the big clamp down on that anomaly will be played out. Grassroots seem to make no difference...

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

Most of Washington agrees, that if there is not some solution approved real soon then there won't be another chance until sometime after the presidential elections. - Over 1.5 years from now. Can we afford to wait?

Personally, I like the idea of municipalities taking control of the issue - like Farmers Branch, Texas. The federal level can't seem to get the job done without a lot of pork thrown in.

(yep, be careful, the administrators and monitors seem to dislike politics and scripture )

Thing is there is already laws that would allow them to do something about it with out congress legislating. If they will not enforce the current laws why would they enforce any new ones?

I think they already approved a 700 mile (fact check) fence and how much was built? Like 2 miles or something?

Both sides do not want to go into the 2008 elections with this still hanging over their heads. Media was out to get Bush so bad they made it a Bush problem, but the bad thing for the Dem's is that now they have to do something about it since they gained the power of congress. So Dem's need to do something to keep Congressional power and Republicans need to do something to get back in the White House.

In the end it is just a big political mess, with beat around the bush solutions when the solutions are as plain as the nose on their faces.

 

[Frankie]

Hey, aplusmnt, maybe this will make you feel better about McCain? Apparently he didn't have much to do with the proposed immigration bill. He just showed up for the press conference announcing it. Or at least that's what another Senator involved in the negotiations claimed.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/