Put your best Herd Bull on the board!

[Ryan]

What's the advantage of raising a bull or cow that has long horns?

Some people think/believe that having bigger horns makes the cow or bull a better animal.

 

[Rockin' J Longhorns]

Where did you get him from?
With all these bulls going over 70" tip to tip how soon until 75+" tip to tip is necessary for a bull to be elite?

A bull is 50% of your herd so if you are serious about your program you should breed to the best bull you can. A bull with horn and that produces horn will cost from $20,000 - way up and I do mean way up. So for the small breeder it's not smart to buy a bull in that price range. But you can buy semen out of bulls like that and AI your cows to several great bull. Not every cow will click with the same bull so if you AI her one year and it's not a good cross then AI her to something different the following year.

 

[Ryan]

Here's our 3 herdsires:

NP Redeemer's Redemption (I believe him to be one of, if not the, top producing LH bulls in the breed today)
World Grand Champion Bull in 2000, World Reserve Grand Champion Bull in '99. Sire of Multiple World Champion and National Champion animals, including the All-Time Winningest Texas Longhorn. Been the leading sire of champions on the show circuit for some 5 or 6 years now...

SD Horizon - 2.5yrs in the pic
Both parents were World Grand Champions and he was World Reserve Senior Champion Bull and a full brother to the All-Time winningest Texas Longhorn

RCR Scorpions Stinger - ~2yrs in the pic
National Grand Champion bull, sire was World Reserve Grand champion bull, goes back to multiple World Grand Champions. We only have 4 calves out of him (a few more people have calves out of him though) and they are all tremendous.

 

[Rustler9]

In the registered Longhorn industry today, an animal with alot of horn and that can produce a lot of horn will bring a premium price. This is for people who are serious about horn growth and who want to breed and promote the Longhorn breed. There is a breed called Shorthorn and they are good cattle but this is a whole different breed. This goes back to the two sub varieties of Longhorn cattle. Very few Longhorn show cattle have much horn growth. I've seen many that don't even have the 40" that they are supposed to have to be considered a representative of the breed. Many of them have Longhorn coloration and small horns so they still qualify as Longhorns I guess. Actually, according to the breed guidelines at least 50" is considered desirable and 40" is considered undesirable. Good conformation is desired also and not all that have big horns have that either. So, it's a good thing to try to concentrate on both. The way it looks like it's going it shouldn't be long before there's a line of Longhorns that have nothing but scurs.

 

[Rockin' J Longhorns]

In the registered Longhorn industry today, an animal with alot of horn and that can produce a lot of horn will bring a premium price. This is for people who are serious about horn growth and who want to breed and promote the Longhorn breed. There is a breed called Shorthorn and they are good cattle but this is a whole different breed. This goes back to the two sub varieties of Longhorn cattle. Very few Longhorn show cattle have much horn growth. I've seen many that don't even have the 40" that they are supposed to have to be considered a representative of the breed. Many of them have Longhorn coloration and small horns so they still qualify as Longhorns I guess. Actually, according to the breed guidelines at least 50" is considered desirable and 40" is considered undesirable. Good conformation is desired also and not all that have big horns have that either. So, it's a good thing to try to concentrate on both. The way it looks like it's going it shouldn't be long before there's a line of Longhorns that have nothing but scurs.

Well said.

 

[Rockin' J Longhorns]

Here is another one of my top herd sires. He is a two year old The Shadow / Tabasco / Jet Jockey bred bull that is predicted to have over 75" ttt.

 

[Rustler9]

That's a nice looking bull. We have a black and white Tabasco son. He's been a good one for us. Has Impressive on the bottom side. Guess that's where he get's his coloration.

 

[Ryan]

Here is another one of my top herd sires. He is a two year old The Shadow / Tabasco / Jet Jockey bred bull that is predicted to have over 75" ttt.

do you, by any chance, know how much we weighs?

Ryan

 

[Ryan]

That's a nice looking bull.

I am not trying to be rude here at all, just trying to learn and trying to understand more about what other breeders like, honestly.

Rustler9... can you please expand on your above statement. What about the bull makes you think he is a nice looking bull? Also, Rockin' J, what made you select this particular bull to be a herd sire? As you can see, he really doesnt match any of mine, so i am curious as to what makes him the right bull for you and your program. thanks.

Just trying to learn more, thanks in advance for your response.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Rustler9 indicated that an Association standard was reported at being in the 40-50" range for horn. If I'm not mistaken, that is on the TLBAA breed guidelines (which is out of date). And, it depends if it is TTT or Total Horn.

"Now" the breeders looking at horn are pushing the 70-80" range as "standard & desirable". And, if someone's LH isn't approching that, theirs won't sell for premium prices.

"Our" minimum guideline is that if one of our LH doesn't have a minimum of 24" at 12 months of age...well, he/she grows wheels or is put in freezer (unless an area commercial cattle rancher wants him for cross-breeding).

We're gradually getting there with our horn program (but, not forgetting body). Due to high costs of Long Horned cattle, we're trying to breed up and raise some of our own.

 

[Rustler9]

RAB,
It may be out dated by now. But, that's what's on the TLBAA site under Breed Guidelines. The point is, to be considered a representative of the breed an animal should be required to posess certain traits. Horn growth should have a part in this breed. As a fellow breeder you probably have the same thoughts on this.

 

[Rustler9]

Ryan,
This bull is more like What I would want to use in my breeding. A good conformation is to be desired, no argument there. But, horns are to be desired as well. I don't see horns on the animals that you post. Especially in your bulls. Body and structure on the bulls, fine. I remember that in an earlier post you mentioned that there wasn't a bull at the Horn Showcase that you would use. Why woudn't you want to take some of your good bodied cows and breed them to a large horned bull for the total package animal? I have some big, beef type Longhorn cows. I like them alot. I breed these cows to bulls with Horn genetics to produce an animal that I hope will have the right combination of these traits. In my experience you can take a cow that has alot of horn and breed her to a bull with less horn and you get a calf that grows less horn. Pretty soon you have cattle with mediocre horns. I don't want cows with mediocre horns. Not all of my cows have to be 70"+ but I don't want a herd of 42" horned cows either. I guess it's just the horns vs. show cow way of thinking. I still don't undertsand why an animal can't have both.

 

[nagwag]

I don't mean to interupt the Longhorn talk, but I would like to show our Limosine bull. We have used him on our angus influencd cows for 3 years now and the calves have all been well muscled and growthy. He also has been a calm & quiet bull. What do you think of him? Thanks.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

RAB,
It may be out dated by now. But, that's what's on the TLBAA site under Breed Guidelines. The point is, to be considered a representative of the breed an animal should be required to posess certain traits. Horn growth should have a part in this breed. As a fellow breeder you probably have the same thoughts on this.

Agree 100%

Irrespective of "Breed Guidelines" by either TLBAA or ITLA (we are a member of both), my general feeling (looking at the show cattle that won ribbons from both associations) is that ITLA members "appear" to focus more on horn while TLBAA members "appear" to focus more on body style. Of course, I could be totally wrong here. Granted, members of either association will have cattle that fit into either Horn or Body category (or both).

One rather obvious departure from my above stated (perhaps erroneous) impressions is the annual TLBAA Horn Showcase.

As with any professional association memberships, there is usually a time when a given group "divides" and another association spins off due to differences in opinions about what "their" association should be and promote.

 

[Rockin' J Longhorns]

I don't mean to interupt the Longhorn talk, but I would like to show our Limosine bull. We have used him on our angus influencd cows for 3 years now and the calves have all been well muscled and growthy. He also has been a calm & quiet bull. What do you think of him? Thanks.

Nagwag, nice bull I really like his top line.

 

[CopeMan]

Are all these bulls owned?...or are some AI sires that you use in your herds?

I own an interest in First Edition. He is owned jointly by 10 breeders in the U.S.
We all have semen rights and semen has been sold in the U.S. through ourselves
and several retailers. Semex has been selling semen for us
in the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

How old is he and how much does he weigh now La?

 

[la4angus]

Are all these bulls owned?...or are some AI sires that you use in your herds?

I own an interest in First Edition. He is owned jointly by 10 breeders in the U.S.
We all have semen rights and semen has been sold in the U.S. through ourselves
and several retailers. Semex has been selling semen for us
in the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

How old is he and how much does he weigh now La?

DOB 02/16/2002. Coming 5 Y.O. Feb. 2007 and will weigh 2700 lb. to 2900 lb.depending on his condition.

 

[Cowboy 2.0]

I like Ryan's cattle better. They look like real cattle, not a bag of bones with a 300 lb head.

 

[CopeMan]

Are all these bulls owned?...or are some AI sires that you use in your herds?

I own an interest in First Edition. He is owned jointly by 10 breeders in the U.S.
We all have semen rights and semen has been sold in the U.S. through ourselves
and several retailers. Semex has been selling semen for us
in the U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

How old is he and how much does he weigh now La?

DOB 02/16/2002. Coming 5 Y.O. Feb. 2007 and will weigh 2700 lb. to 2900 lb.depending on his condition.

When you get some updated pictures of him I would love to see him. If you tak ehtme try to get some quartering towards the camera to show his thickness, I like to see them other than side pictures all the time. I like to sse there heads and fronts.

 

[CopeMan]

I like Ryan's cattle better. They look like real cattle, not a bag of bones with a 300 lb head.

I agree they look like beef cattle with longhorns instead of goats with longhorns. Thats the kind of longhorns I would like to have.