Pulling the bull out

[TexasBred]

The beef industry, at least the big boys up here, and I suspect many large operators in North America, do it as msscamp suggests, and always have. Fertility is close to being the top selection criteria. n most herds late cows are gone with the open ones.

Guess you're one of the "big boys"...cull "open and late" without mercy?? "Late" covers your ass...since you don't check anything she may only be a few weeks late...how do you decide comrade ??

 

[Aaron]

Just figured I would pipe up here again as I seem to see a recurring comment. People seem to be saying you have to preg-check because some cows could be bred and still be cycling regularly. Hold on. To me, I wouldn't say that is the hallmark of a "good fertile cow". Let alone the fact that if that cow is bred but still cycles...she runs the risk of slipping a calf. :cowboy:

 

[jasrnch]

Everyone has different management issues, which gives you different management practices. I pull my bulls in the fall as soon as I can find them after Aug 15. Because I run on USFS range gathering and finding isn't always easy. My bulls are separated and held until breeding season. After the bulls are all found we hold for 14 days and then they are checked for trich. I used to use allot of the old methods of checking my cows. But since we had a neighboring allotment bull, bring trich into the herd, has made a major change to all of my management practices. I never go a year without preg checking, and culling, including getting rid of any favorites that are open. Also because of my location I don't have a choice of not having a vet come to my place. I have to have my herd bled every year so that I can cross a state line, to go to pasture. Just because my father and my grandfather did it one way, doesn't mean that I can do it that way.

 

[TexasBred]

Just figured I would pipe up here again as I seem to see a recurring comment. People seem to be saying you have to preg-check because some cows could be bred and still be cycling regularly. Hold on. To me, I wouldn't say that is the hallmark of a "good fertile cow". Let alone the fact that if that cow is bred but still cycles...she runs the risk of slipping a calf. :cowboy:

Not at all Aaron...I'm saying the guy gives his cows a 60 day window so to speak and if she misses the window she's history even tho she may calve the next week. This guy doesn't have a clue if she's open or bred from day one....all he knows is that he didn't have to pay anyone to pregnancy check her so he saved that money at the expense of having to possibly cull the cow that missed his calving window by a few days.

 

[dun]

Just figured I would pipe up here again as I seem to see a recurring comment. People seem to be saying you have to preg-check because some cows could be bred and still be cycling regularly. Hold on. To me, I wouldn't say that is the hallmark of a "good fertile cow". Let alone the fact that if that cow is bred but still cycles...she runs the risk of slipping a calf. :cowboy:

Not at all Aaron...I'm saying the guy gives his cows a 60 day window so to speak and if she misses the window she's history even tho she may calve the next week. This guy doesn't have a clue if she's open or bred from day one....all he knows is that he didn't have to pay anyone to pregnancy check her so he saved that money at the expense of having to possibly cull the cow that missed his calving window by a few days.

It sounds like he saves the price of preg checking at the cost of feeding cows until they should calve. The financial end of that just doesn;t make sense.

 

[Aaron]

Just figured I would pipe up here again as I seem to see a recurring comment. People seem to be saying you have to preg-check because some cows could be bred and still be cycling regularly. Hold on. To me, I wouldn't say that is the hallmark of a "good fertile cow". Let alone the fact that if that cow is bred but still cycles...she runs the risk of slipping a calf. :cowboy:

Not at all Aaron...I'm saying the guy gives his cows a 60 day window so to speak and if she misses the window she's history even tho she may calve the next week. This guy doesn't have a clue if she's open or bred from day one....all he knows is that he didn't have to pay anyone to pregnancy check her so he saved that money at the expense of having to possibly cull the cow that missed his calving window by a few days.

Ok, I am definitely not following you. We pulled one bull today, and the other tomorrow. That should put them at about a 49 and 50 day breeding season respectively. So lets work at a 50 day breeding day season. In comparison, we ran a 65 day season last year and never culled a single cow...every one was bred and every one calved....which apparently seems to be a impossibility with many herds. So apparently, according to you, I didn't know who was bred and who wasn't from day one. But, and correct me if I am wrong, you seem to be advocating an extension of the breeding season to accommodate the few cows that may miss out being bred because you pulled the bull a week before they cycled again? Again, I can't really follow what you are saying here.

 

[Chris H]

...
Ok, I am definitely not following you. We pulled one bull today, and the other tomorrow. That should put them at about a 49 and 50 day breeding season respectively. So lets work at a 50 day breeding day season. In comparison, we ran a 65 day season last year and never culled a single cow...every one was bred and every one calved....which apparently seems to be a impossibility with many herds. So apparently, according to you, I didn't know who was bred and who wasn't from day one. But, and correct me if I am wrong, you seem to be advocating an extension of the breeding season to accommodate the few cows that may miss out being bred because you pulled the bull a week before they cycled again? Again, I can't really follow what you are saying here.

Aaron, when will you know that all your cows are bred, in 2 months when you preg check, or in 10 months when they have not calved? What's it cost to feed 1 open cow for 8 months compared to doing preg checks on the herd?

 

[Aaron]

...
Ok, I am definitely not following you. We pulled one bull today, and the other tomorrow. That should put them at about a 49 and 50 day breeding season respectively. So lets work at a 50 day breeding day season. In comparison, we ran a 65 day season last year and never culled a single cow...every one was bred and every one calved....which apparently seems to be a impossibility with many herds. So apparently, according to you, I didn't know who was bred and who wasn't from day one. But, and correct me if I am wrong, you seem to be advocating an extension of the breeding season to accommodate the few cows that may miss out being bred because you pulled the bull a week before they cycled again? Again, I can't really follow what you are saying here.

Aaron, when will you know that all your cows are bred, in 2 months when you preg check, or in 10 months when they have not calved? What's it cost to feed 1 open cow for 8 months compared to doing preg checks on the herd?

We sell our cows the first of September, so we basically have to know by then if they are bred. Cull cow prices locally drop 10 to 15 cents from Sept. 1 to Oct 1., so that provides some incentive to get the open ones to the first sale. If not, and some are later to cycle, we will bite the bullet and sell them at the next sale. It will cost us about $200 this year to feed a cow. It would cost us somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 to $500 to pregcheck everything. :cowboy:

 

[dun]

It will cost us about $200 this year to feed a cow. It would cost us somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 to $500 to pregcheck everything. :cowboy:

So getting rid of 2 1/2 open cows early would pay for the preg check. If it was 3 cows you would make money on the deal.

 

[Chris H]

Aaron, when will you know that all your cows are bred, in 2 months when you preg check, or in 10 months when they have not calved? What's it cost to feed 1 open cow for 8 months compared to doing preg checks on the herd?

We sell our cows the first of September, so we basically have to know by then if they are bred. Cull cow prices locally drop 10 to 15 cents from Sept. 1 to Oct 1., so that provides some incentive to get the open ones to the first sale. If not, and some are later to cycle, we will bite the bullet and sell them at the next sale. It will cost us about $200 this year to feed a cow. It would cost us somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 to $500 to pregcheck everything. :cowboy:

You're running 2 bulls, so I'm guessing you have +/-50 brood cows. Are you relying completely on visual observance of returning heats to determine if they're open? Does that time take away from other important chores? What else could you be doing with that time?

 

[Aaron]

It will cost us about $200 this year to feed a cow. It would cost us somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 to $500 to pregcheck everything. :cowboy:

So getting rid of 2 1/2 open cows early would pay for the preg check. If it was 3 cows you would make money on the deal.

True. On the other hand, we could pay attention to our cowherd, get rid of the culls and still be ahead.

Aaron, when will you know that all your cows are bred, in 2 months when you preg check, or in 10 months when they have not calved? What's it cost to feed 1 open cow for 8 months compared to doing preg checks on the herd?

We sell our cows the first of September, so we basically have to know by then if they are bred. Cull cow prices locally drop 10 to 15 cents from Sept. 1 to Oct 1., so that provides some incentive to get the open ones to the first sale. If not, and some are later to cycle, we will bite the bullet and sell them at the next sale. It will cost us about $200 this year to feed a cow. It would cost us somewhere in the neighbourhood of $400 to $500 to pregcheck everything. :cowboy:

You're running 2 bulls, so I'm guessing you have +/-50 brood cows. Are you relying completely on visual observance of returning heats to determine if they're open? Does that time take away from other important chores? What else could you be doing with that time?

We are just around the 50 cow mark. I think we will be calving 50 next spring, would have to check the numbers. We are relying completely on visual observance, yes. Does it take time away?...Not to any great degree. Routine checking every day also allows for a relatively fast health protocol to be implemented on sick/injured animals. We aren't a dairy farm anymore, so daily routine chores don't really exist around here. Each day has its own project, and we work around them...usually using our breaks from work to go check cows.

 

[bandit80]

I replied to this thread way back on the first page or so, and have watched it progress, get kinda nasty, and so on.

This only applies for those who have a distinct, limited time calving season, and are not year round calvers.

Spending time every day checking cows and observing those that come into heat seems to be way too much time consuming to me. I have a herd of 50 cows, row crop 150 acres, bale about 1200 big bales for myself and others a summer, up to 8000 small squares a summer, maintain 7 different lawns, all in addition to working an 8-5 job. I have enough time to check my cows about once a week for a good portion of the summer. No way could I check them every day to see which cows came into heat after my 45, 60, 75 or whatever the magic number is breeding season. Even if I didn't have a day job, I still wouldn't do it. There are much better things to do with my time that are much more profitable than heat check my cows every day.

I guess everyone must view their time differently, and you must use it the way each person sees fit. I would still think that culling cows based on an observed heat after the calving window will lead to culling some bred cows. I have witnessed bred cows stand and allow other cows to mount them, and even a bull on a couple of occasions. It is a rare occurence, but it does happen from time to time. Maybe the cow was just to lazy to move out of the way? Preg checking is not hard to learn. I took a semester course in college on how to do it, and was able to tell if a cow was bred 2 weeks into the course. If you are pregging cows that are 60+ days bred, it is really pretty easy. I know I have saved myself a lot of money by pregging my own, and culling open cows rather than feeding them all fall and winter.

Just my 2 cents.

In the end, to each their own, and whatever works for your own operation.

 

[TexasBred]

Bandit I guess in reality everyone has their own methods and if they work then you really can't knock them. I'm fortunate that I know how to palpate cattle and have been doing it for 20 years. It's not hard to find a 2 or 3 month calf in a cow...For that matter even one 30 days bred isn't hard so I palpate everything. Observations I suppose will work for those that prefer it but if I try it I figure I'd miss a lot more than I do with palpation and I want to know if she's bred as quickly as possible so I can then decide whether to inseminate again or cull.