Polled Vs. Horned Herford

[oscar p]

I went to look at some bulls at a farm in Section Alabama one time. An Old man in his 80s came out and ask me if I wanted a polled bull on a horned bull. I told him I didn't know. He carried me out to a pasture full of bulls. He said this is my polled bulls, as he poured a bag of feed in a trough.He said they were pasture raised with a little feed. As we walked behind the bulls, he told me to look at the butts on the bulls. They all looked good. He showed me the milking #s on the bulls also. Then we walked down a little lane to his horned bulls. Now look at the butts on these bull, as he poured a bag of feed in a trough. They looked even better than the polled bulls. He said they had been pasture raised also with the same feed, he also showed me the milking #s on these bulls. There was a big difference. He told me that if you breed the horns off of them, you also breed the a$$ off of them, and you breed the horns off of them you also breed the milk out of them. I ask why he carried both, horned and polled bulls. If he like horned so much. He said to give people a choice.

you must be talkin about John ike griffith. i bought a couple year'lins from him years ago. his operation sorta went to he11 on him before he died pinkeye,cancer eye are scars to old to keep up and sorry help

I dont remember his name but he had a son that was a pharmisist?spelling

 

[ALACOWMAN]

At the last F1 ABBA sale most of the lots were made up of color selection rather than phenotype. When I listen to many cattlemen talk I will hear them brag abought their tigerstripes. I can assure there are a lot more knowledgable people on these boards than you will find at the local coffee shop.
With that in mind, it may force me to sort my cattle the same way.
Before I went to just raise replacement heifers All my F1,s tigerstripes were sold to one individual, at a premium. All the reds had to go elsewhere. The reds were oftentimes the better bunch.
What really gets me is that the offspring of these cattle will also be as variable in color as the F1,s they came from and have no consistant phenotype.

what kind of bull's are they using ?cause with homo black ill get black baldies, motts or solids

 

[Copenhagen & Shiner B]

There was a time ~15 years ago where I would recommend a Horned line one as a commercial sire over any of the then prevalent polled genetics. At the moment, I would prefer to buy a polled sire, preferably with no recent line one blood in it. I would be reluctant to buy a horned bull right now, because there is no growth advantage to the horned bull (I can get more growth, milk, or muscle from either than I really need) and there is a shadow over the Line Ones because of this "shaker" syndrome. I would have to get on the phone and really get the low down on just what exactly is going on with what lines before I could even begin to consider purchasing a horned bull or a polled one with line one genetics close by in the pedigree. We will know a lot more 10-12 months from now.

What is this "shaker" syndrome with Line Ones? I am using a Line One bull right now and I am thinking of buying another one to replace him.

 

[skcatlman]

From what i have seen the show ring has wrecked to Polled Herefords to high in the tail head too tigh pinned , too tight hided. For practical working stock HH are deep thick stocky cattle that have to work in real conditions but that is just what i have seen, There are bad ones in every breed but from what i see and for what i am looking for HH all the way. A little paste is worth the extra pounds in fall.

 

[Brandonm2]

Idiopathic Epilepsy
Apparently the calf can develop epileptic fits. It is a simple Mendellian recessive like dwarfism. Only the calves with two recessives show symptoms. Only two bulls (brothers) have been positively identified by the Hereford association as carriers; but the rumour is that this is about to be widened. Their sire HH Advance 6052F is a POSSIBLE carrier and he has 230 daughters in the data. How wide spread this is in Holdens and Coopers herds is very debatable at the moment. They MIGHT have caught this in the bud; but Nick the Butler was an icon in Polled Herefords and it took years and years to identify him as the hypotrichosis progenitor

http://hereford.org/AHA/tabID__3855/tailored.aspx

I am not throwing stones; but we have been told that more information is coming soon. I would want THAT information if I were buying a bull right now.

 

[TheBullLady]

There has been a debate for years about the merits of using a gray or red Brahman for "stripes". You can sure get some great looking F1's using red Brahmans.. the sometimes throw stripes, sometimes solid red, but really nice calves. The grays will throw stripes as well, but I've also seen solid reds with this cross.

The gray Brahman is generally thicker and meatier than red.. which is probably the reason you see mostly grays being used.

 

[I luv herfrds]

This has been an interesting debate.
I married into the Horned Hereford cattle.
I have been to both horned and polled breeders. I have to say that the best I saw were at Coopers Herefords. Saw his bulls for the first time this spring. Husband saw them during the Hereford Tour.
I have to admit I am parsal to the horned.
Both polled and horned breeders can point out the the top points of each.

This question can get a really big debate going on horned vs. polled.

I'm not going to start a war by repeating the husbands remarks.

 

[novatech]

There has been a debate for years about the merits of using a gray or red Brahman for "stripes". You can sure get some great looking F1's using red Brahmans.. the sometimes throw stripes, sometimes solid red, but really nice calves. The grays will throw stripes as well, but I've also seen solid reds with this cross.

The gray Brahman is generally thicker and meatier than red.. which is probably the reason you see mostly grays being used.

The tiger stripe issue seems to be just a shot in the dark. Although I would rather have the strips, because of the market, I am much more concerned with the phenotype of the brahman heifers I am trying to produce at this time.
I am concentrating on deeper bodied, not so leggy cattle that will produce a more european look. I even look for shorter ear and less hip slope and as thick as I can find them.
When I do choose a herford bull to go back on them I will select for the same complementry qualities. Haveing said that, fertilitity and temprement are still at the top of the list, along with a multitude of other qualities.

Breeding cattle is very complicated. It is like going into a restaurant and there are just to many things on the menu to choose from. :lol:
I'm defenitly learning a lot from the comments on here.
And a big thanks for no fighting.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

There has been a debate for years about the merits of using a gray or red Brahman for "stripes". You can sure get some great looking F1's using red Brahmans.. the sometimes throw stripes, sometimes solid red, but really nice calves. The grays will throw stripes as well, but I've also seen solid reds with this cross.

The gray Brahman is generally thicker and meatier than red.. which is probably the reason you see mostly grays being used.

well if you are talking about the indu influanced cattle they can be red or grey and are more rangy than american grays but american red has the same phenotype as the gray other than the color

 

[UG]

Brandonm2,

Can you share more detail on the "shaker" issue with the Line 1 Herefords? I hadn't heard about the Line 1's having this problem before now.

 

[Brandonm2]

I am probably being too harsh by labeling this as a Line one illness especially since this has been clinically diagnosed in horned Herefords as early as 1985.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... t=Abstract

The two confirmed published carriers of this are half brothers sired by HH Advance 6052F. He was born in 1996 so he clearly is not the progenitor if the vets had identified the disease 11 years prior to his birth. I don't know anything about how far this traces back.
All I really have is word of mouth that this traces back to the Line Ones. I repeat.....that I am waiting for more information from the Hereford Association brain trust on this one.