Poll. Bull size.

[S.R.R.]

We have been talking about bull size vs cow size for breeding.

For the sake of the beginner I think the numbers from a poll may be more help to them in deciding whether to use a bull the same size as their cows or one a bit bigger.

 

[boone]

If a full grown bull prospect doesn't weigh any more than the cows do, he needs to be hamburger anyway. Boone

 

[ALACOWMAN]

theres a whole lot too consider here besides a bull thats bigger than the cows. namely the cows . ive seen dink bulls throw monster calves, pelvic size, and matching bulls too cows a technic not usually possesed by begginers

 

[1848]

theres a whole lot too consider here besides a bull thats bigger than the cows. namely the cows . ive seen dink bulls throw monster calves, pelvic size, and matching bulls too cows a technic not usually possesed by begginers

Amen!

This thread is nothing more then "BS" (Bull Size)

 

[S.R.R.]

What is so bloody complicating here??? When you pick a bull or bulls to breed your cow herd to do you look for one that is the same size as your cows or one that is bigger???
YES for the same size and
No if he is bigger.

 

[1848]

What is so bloody complicating here??? When you pick a bull or bulls to breed your cow herd to do you look for one that is the same size as your cows or one that is bigger???
YES for the same size and
No if he is bigger.

Looks like you are getting your answers. What are you complaining about?

 

[S.R.R.]

1848 be nice! ;-) This is an honest question and I think that we both need to learn the truth here.

I for one am having a hard time getting my head around why any commercial cattle producer would use bulls that are no bigger then their cows. :? but you and la4angus feel that it is a common practice so I am here to learn why.

 

[1848]

1848 be nice! ;-) This is an honest question and I think that we both need to learn the truth here.

I for one am having a hard time getting my head around why any commercial cattle producer would use bulls that are no bigger then their cows. :? but you and la4angus feel that it is a common practice so I am here to learn why.

Ok ...but you should know this

My bulls are bigger then the cows, (but it's their genetics and they receive ample nutrition) ..just don't think it is an absolute for selection, especially if you know what the bulls progeny look like, and what they are growing like...up front. Many breeders buy bulls as calves and will never get them up to size due to nutrition and workload, but the genetics will shine through because the growth circumstances of the bull up to his mature weight was "not his genetic fault".

Sometimes it's just about efficiency of the herd and what the end product is that you are breeding for. You and another breeder tried to say "Angus" bulls (not sure why Angus had to be used as the example here) can do that with ease (disagree here), but yet you seem to think that it takes a large bull to get the 600lb calf! According to your theory with the Angus, any calf should then get to the 600lb weight with reasonable management and nutrition, so why spend the money and feed and be left with the possibility of breaking down efficient 900lb cows with a large bull to get the same end product?

A larger bull "is" not a must!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

i guess one reason for it if someone is retaining heifer's or bull's they are shooting for a certain frame size. but its not a great indicator of how big the calf will be at weaning too have a bigger frame bull on smaller frame cattle he could throw a large frame calf that weans off at 550 compared too a moderate frame that weighs the same and with less groceries the larger frame calves take longer too finish out

 

[1848]

Here is a perspective for you SRR.

"Top gaining yearling bulls" sell at registered and select sales to commercial cattleman at almost every sale,..and trust me... these young bulls are not fed for another 6 months to a year to get them to "size" before they are put to work either! They will buy 1/2 a dozen and throw them to the wolves hoping to get a couple hundred head serviced. After 2 seasons they are usually rotated out...although some are even kept for a third year for good coverage of service or to keep a certain phenotype in the mix (color, breed) Unfortunately, they are worked so hard that their weight gain from yearling to 2 years old is minimal. An 800 to 1300 lb yearling bull may only gain 200 lbs in the next year. As a result they are no bigger then the cows they originally were exposed too. That is the nature of the business. Genetically those yearlings have what it takes to make 1800 or 2000 lbs if the circumstances allowed, but in the environment I used as an example this isn't going to happen. I don't care what breed it is.

 

[MikeC]

The bull I like best is about 4 inches long and is about the size of a pencil lead.

He doesn't eat anything, he doesn't get out at 2:00 in the morning and cannot break his leg, and is much cheaper than a walking bull. His semen always has above 70% motility with good heads and tails.

He also has proven genetics, with a lot of calves on the ground for me to scrutinize.

Yes, the one I use for clean-up is a pain. But he usually don't have much work to do.

 

[1848]

The bull I like best is about 4 inches long and is about the size of a pencil lead.

He doesn't eat anything, he doesn't get out at 2:00 in the morning and cannot break his leg, and is much cheaper than a walking bull. His semen always has above 70% motility with good heads and tails.

He also has proven genetics, with a lot of calves on the ground for me to scrutinize.

Yes, the one I use for clean-up is a pain. But he usually don't have much work to do.

;-)

 

[Dave]

In cattle as in most animals (but not all) the mature male is larger than the mature female. So if you are breeding with a mature bull who is smaller than your cows you will be downsizing the average cow in your herd given that you are keeping replacements. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. One thing it should be is planned, if that is what you are doing.
My bulls are slightly bigger than the cows. The few replacement heifers I keep end up growing to average size in the cow herd.
Dave

 

[1848]

In cattle as in most animals (but not all) the mature male is larger than the mature female.

All things being equal yes,... but this is not a valid point for different management practices (age, workload)and nutritional availability. If all things are equal or a male has at least been given ample opportunity (nutrition wise) to grow, and he doesn't perform then he should be culled and/or steered because "at that point", genetically, he has proven himself to be inferior. When you don't have all the tools or information to make your selection on a bull, then we can only go by visual attributes, but this is only a single indication of the bulls potential. Don't judge the small bull in the pasture so harshly...he may be a stunted son from a national champion with the potential to leave your bull in the dust!

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In cattle as in most animals (but not all) the mature male is larger than the mature female.

All things being equal yes,... but this is not a valid point for different management practices (age, workload)and nutritional availability. If all things are equal or a male has at least been given ample opportunity (nutrition wise) to grow, and he doesn't perform then he should be culled and/or steered because "at that point", genetically, he has proven himself to be inferior. When you don't have all the tools or information to make your selection on a bull, then we can only go by visual attributes, but this is only a single indication of the bulls potential.

• Don't judge the small bull in the pasture so harshly...he may be a stunted son from a national champion with the potential to leave your bull in the dust

!

now thats for dam sure

 

[Scotty]

The bull I like best is about 4 inches long and is about the size of a pencil lead.

He doesn't eat anything, he doesn't get out at 2:00 in the morning and cannot break his leg, and is much cheaper than a walking bull. His semen always has above 70% motility with good heads and tails.

He also has proven genetics, with a lot of calves on the ground for me to scrutinize.

Yes, the one I use for clean-up is a pain. But he usually don't have much work to do.

Agree with you twice in one day.

 

[S.R.R.]

The bull I like best is about 4 inches long and is about the size of a pencil lead.

He doesn't eat anything, he doesn't get out at 2:00 in the morning and cannot break his leg, and is much cheaper than a walking bull. His semen always has above 70% motility with good heads and tails.

He also has proven genetics, with a lot of calves on the ground for me to scrutinize.

Yes, the one I use for clean-up is a pain. But he usually don't have much work to do.

Agree with you twice in one day.

And I will bet you a tenderloin that the AI bull you picked is larger then your cows!

 

[ONLY-BEEF]

Mister S.R.R. these fellows are just tryen ta agravate ya. Ifen a cow calf rancher is letten a bull the same size as their cow have a go at em then they are the kind O cattle men ya talk about on occasion. welfare cattlemen, hobby cattlemen!!
Don't let these fellers get under yur skin they aint got a like O sense ifen what they say their doen is true.

Ya seem like a real cattlemen up agianst a bunch O rancher want ta bees. These fellers have got a heap O learn ta do and for some it takes a heap O time ta do it.

Ya may be from canada but from the letters of yurs i have been readen we think a lot O like and yor one O the few real cattlemen left on this here board.

This here letter is longer then the one i wrote my kids for Christmas but i sure hate ta see a good cattlemen bein knocked on, there ain't that many O us left.

 

[KenB]

In cattle as in most animals (but not all) the mature male is larger than the mature female. So if you are breeding with a mature bull who is smaller than your cows you will be downsizing the average cow in your herd given that you are keeping replacements. This could be a good thing or a bad thing. One thing it should be is planned, if that is what you are doing.
My bulls are slightly bigger than the cows. The few replacement heifers I keep end up growing to average size in the cow herd.
Dave

I didn't answer the poll because...

I don't think that many people would use a mature bull that is the same size as there cows.

However if a person has 900 lb. cows a 1200 lb. bull would be reasonable.
And someone with 1600 lb cows would want a 2400 lb. bull to stay with the 25% ratio.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

The bull I like best is about 4 inches long and is about the size of a pencil lead.

He doesn't eat anything, he doesn't get out at 2:00 in the morning and cannot break his leg, and is much cheaper than a walking bull. His semen always has above 70% motility with good heads and tails.

He also has proven genetics, with a lot of calves on the ground for me to scrutinize.

Yes, the one I use for clean-up is a pain. But he usually don't have much work to do.

Me too