Picture of Buckling knee calf..

[cag]

I posted a week ago.. things were going good and she seemed better ,,tonight went out and she was back at it. She runs on them and nurses... anymore input.. shall I wait this out? now that there is a picture do you think it is contracted tendons? It's not her fedlock it's her knees.??


http://ranchers.net/photopost/data/500/medium/knee.JPG

 

[dun]

I posted a week ago.. things were going good and she seemed better ,,tonight went out and she was back at it. She runs on them and nurses... anymore input.. shall I wait this out? now that there is a picture do you think it is contracted tendons? It's not her fedlock it's her knees.??

 

[branguscowgirl]

I had a filly that looked just like that who had contracted tendons. It took several months and she straightened just fine. I have friends with calves like this. All came out fine. So unless the vet says there is a deficiency of some sort, I would not be concerned. I have seen them worse, where their toes did not even touch the ground.
She will go "over in the knees" worse after playing, when she gets tired. It takes effort for her to stretch them up.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've never had one not straighten out. Surely this one will to.

 

[dun]

To me it looks more like stretched tendons then contracted tendons.

 

[cag]

Thank you Dun for the pic posting. It does make sense that she gets worse after playing. This morning she looked pretty good... Standing straight most of the time. Last night was really bad.. Put my husband and I stood out in the barn and watched her running around with another little heifer. It's like she wants to run and forgets it hurts. So if it is contracted tendons that would help BUT if that would be stretched tendons should we limit what she does? We have never had this before. She has had a shot of Bo se and a shot of Ade.

 

[randiliana]

We've had a few over the years just like yours. They all came out of it.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Thank you Dun for the pic posting. It does make sense that she gets worse after playing. This morning she looked pretty good... Standing straight most of the time. Last night was really bad.. Put my husband and I stood out in the barn and watched her running around with another little heifer. It's like she wants to run and forgets it hurts. So if it is contracted tendons that would help BUT if that would be stretched tendons should we limit what she does? We have never had this before. She has had a shot of Bo se and a shot of Ade.

Contracted tendons can take several months to (safely) stretch. She will feel her limitations and lay down and rest. If possible though, I would keep her and mom by themselves so that she will not be so tempted to over do it. If she can "stand straight" at times, I personally think it is not "stretched tendons." But I am not a vet, nor have I examined her. I am just going by your pic and my past experiences. As I have said, she is NOT the worst case of contracted tendons that I have seen. BTW- Contracted tendons do "look like it is in the knees" in the more minor cases. The more severe cases pull up the fetlock joint also, causing them to walk on their knuckles. Those are the cases that I brace, as to prevent skin and joint damage. But if this is the whole story, why did your vet not diagnose this?? (Even "bowed tendons" should have been obvious upon examination to the professional....) Was it a cattle vet that saw her?
Just curious, how much did she weigh at birth?

 

[cag]

The vet checked her but he was just not real sure . At the time she was grinding her teeth and he felt her but not a lot . He said he had seen more with the fed lock not in the knee. At that the he said the only way to know for sure was to take he in for X-rays which he does not do. After that he splinted one leg and seemed a lot better. He is an small / large animal vet.
The calf weighed @ 85 at birth . If it is contracted tendons would he be able to feel that for sure ?

 

[branguscowgirl]

The vet checked her but he was just not real sure . At the time she was grinding her teeth and he felt her but not a lot . He said he had seen more with the fed lock not in the knee. At that the he said the only way to know for sure was to take he in for X-rays which he does not do. After that he splinted one leg and seemed a lot better. He is an small / large animal vet.
The calf weighed @ 85 at birth . If it is contracted tendons would he be able to feel that for sure ?

She was a good size calf. Contracted tendons are caused by them laying curled up in the womb. The long bones grow faster then the tendon gets stretched. Very common. An xray will only show the bone. Not the tendons or ligaments. A torn ligament or a bowed tendon usually has a lump or knot that you can feel when you run your fingers down it. It would be more rare to see a tear or bow in BOTH legs at the same time, unless you pulled on the front legs awfully hard to get that calf out. (Even then, not very likely.) Just my opinion.

 

[NCLiz 3]

Cag,

I'm going to go with John on this one.
I'm not saying others are wrong as I haven't ruled some of their suggestion out.
I'm of the opinion you calf has PEM.
Here are some of the basic clinical signs of PEM from wikipedia, as it is the easiest to understand for beginners.
Hope this helps
Liz

Clinical signs of PEM are variable depending on the area of the cerebral cortex affected and may include:
head pressing,
dullness,
opisthotonos, : a condition of spasm of the muscles of the back, causing the head and lower limbs to bend backward and the trunk to arch forward

central blindness,
anorexia, : loss of appetite especially when prolonged

muscle tremors,
teeth grinding,
trismus,
salivation, drooling,
convulsions,
nystagmus, : involuntary usually rapid movement of the eyeballs (as from side to side) occurring normally with dizziness during and after bodily rotation or abnormally following head injury or as a symptom of disease

clonic convulsions, :  a rapid succession of alternating contractions and partial relaxations of a muscle occurring in some nervous diseases

recumbency : the state of leaning, resting, or reclining;

[2] Early administration of thiamine may be curative, but if the lesion is more advanced, then surviving animals may remain partially blind and mentally dull.

 

[cag]

Liz
I sure hope its not . I would take her to Ohio state if I thought she was hurting. She only had the teeth grinding one day only. This calf just puzzles me one hour she will walk fine and the next she is bent. We are going to keep an eye on her and continue to keep her pinned with momma. If she shows any signs of hurting .. Blindness ... Or teeth grinding I will take her in . I will keep you all posted. Thanks for all the input it's the only way to learn

 

[glacierridge]

I think the calf will be alright in time.
As for the teeth grinding... She's a new baby trying to figure out her functions still.
And I've seen plenty of cattle of any age do it out of boredom.

On a tangent... They can do a lot of stuff out of boredom.
Lift gates off their hinges
Run over their water cups
Slop water with their tongues
Lick wood
Lick mangers
Lick frozen gates in winter
Oh and yeah. Grind teeth.

 

[Nesikep]

I'll side with the majority on this and take 100:1 odds on it being PEM. she doesn't seem to have any nervous system issues and it sounds like her appetite is fine. I've had 1 cow that would always throw giant calves a d her 140 lb bull calves often had contracted tendons, they all straightened out just fine and turned into great animals.
They too would play for a bit and then go lay down.

 

[rockridgecattle]

While not up on the PEM lingo, have you thought of navel ill? When it gets bad, it does effect the joints much like you have shown. The best way to tell is to feel the navel and check for hardness and heat.
Now if it is, you will need an aggressive antibiotic like unfold and an anti inflam like anaconda or metacam.

This is serious, and will result in back problems and even death....hopefully death before the back problem. The navel ill / joint ill is a direct link to the liver...that why it gets into the joints so fast.

This is very hard to treat...search out suggestions here on the forum

I have not looked on the link for your previous thread. For contracted tendons, did you give it selenium? Selenium deficiency is a direct result of contracted tendons. There are two doses on the bottle for calves. One is prevention, the other is treatment. Go for the treatment. There is a repeat ion doses x so many days later. Each drug company is different...check the bottle.

 

[cag]

We thought about navel Ill treated right off the bat with selenium and a shot of ADE from vet.
Baby heifer actually seems better every day . She Is nursing great
Her mornings are the best .. She walks great in mornings .
I plan on trying To get some pictures this weekend and see if you all can see an improvement
Thank you all for the help

 

[branguscowgirl]

With the improvement you describe, sounds like we are right on tract with the contracted tendons. It just takes time. As for the navel ill, treatment would be antibiotics cag. Not "Selenium and ADE." Glad that she is doing well!

 

[Nesikep]

Here's a pic of one of mine that had contracted tendons.

He grew up to be a beautiful steer... here's at 10 months

 

[branguscowgirl]

Perfect example Nesikep! Thanks for posting those pics!

 

[cag]

Wow looks good.
We did treat with antiobotics Also .. I checked navel today just to make sure it looks good.
Just curious though will navel ill affect all legs ?
Neskip- thanks for posting pictures . Did he ever go down on knees while nursing ?