Pharo Influenced Heifers ?

[Stocker Steve]

Came about *this* close to buying some Pharo semen years ago... but didn't... used a 4.0 frame bull from a 'grass-fed' genetics line... really shrunk things and produced some short dumpies

Came almost this close to buying some Pharo semen years ago, but didn't, used 4.5 to 5.0 frame AI bulls.

:idea: You would think that someone would sort small frame semen for sex. :idea:

 

[City Guy]

Hey guys, it's about TOTAL PROFIT, not profit per cow or profit per acre or profit per hour or profit per anything, it's TOTAL PROFIT that counts--none of this other stuff makes any difference. It's the same in any business!
Going to smaller framed cows should mean more total cows raised. If you go to smaller frame and still have the same number of cows, no wonder you are disappointed. The whole idea with PCC, OCC and other small cattle is low input and higher stocking rate. Getting smaller cattle is just one third of the program--the third that, in the long run, is going to make the least change. Kit Pharo and the others tout their small cattle because that is what they sell--the low input and higher stocking rates are sold separately. That's the part that's up to you. Getting small cattle without the full program is like an alcoholic drinking from a smaller glass--same old problems.
If you are considering a change to Pharo cattle it must be that you feel something is not right with your cattle. Ask yourself "will size fix my problems?" Chances are excellent that it won't. Remember "nothing changes until something changes".

And why do some of you bad-mouth Mr. Pharo? You act as though salesmanship and good marketing are sins. Kit Pharo is happy and rich and from all I can tell, honest and honorable. Some one to be admired and emulated.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Hey guys, it's about TOTAL PROFIT, not profit per cow or profit per acre or profit per hour or profit per anything, it's TOTAL PROFIT that counts--none of this other stuff makes any difference. It's the same in any business!
Going to smaller framed cows should mean more total cows raised. If you go to smaller frame and still have the same number of cows, no wonder you are disappointed. The whole idea with PCC, OCC and other small cattle is low input and higher stocking rate. Getting smaller cattle is just one third of the program--the third that, in the long run, is going to make the least change. Kit Pharo and the others tout their small cattle because that is what they sell--the low input and higher stocking rates are sold separately. That's the part that's up to you. Getting small cattle without the full program is like an alcoholic drinking from a smaller glass--same old problems.
If you are considering a change to Pharo cattle it must be that you feel something is not right with your cattle. Ask yourself "will size fix my problems?" Chances are excellent that it won't. Remember "nothing changes until something changes".

And why do some of you bad-mouth Mr. Pharo? You act as though salesmanship and good marketing are sins. Kit Pharo is happy and rich and from all I can tell, honest and honorable. Some one to be admired and emulated.

You have a point about stocking rate and profit. However, you fail to consider that a packer simply will not take a steer that finishes at 800-900 pounds and a frame 4. If it doesn't fit the box, they don't want it. They also don't want a finished steer over 1400. Those are facts, not views. You may get simply severely docked, or may not get sold at all. For a niche, direct to consumer market, you don't have to worry about carcass size. For the commercial cattleman, selling feeders or even stockers, it is a huge deal. The ability to stock more cows doesn't mean diddly squat if you can't sell the offspring.

As for the obvious disdain some regard Mr Pharo with, it is mostly because he is a salesman. Some would say a salesman before a cattleman. Some of us simply don't drink the cool aid he is pitching. There is a counterpart to Mr Pharo in the club calf industry. He is a great with marketing and branding. He has tons of fancy bulls and sells more straws of semen a year than most can imagine. There are those that drink his coo laid, and those that do not.

 

[City Guy]

Hey guys, it's about TOTAL PROFIT, not profit per cow or profit per acre or profit per hour or profit per anything, it's TOTAL PROFIT that counts--none of this other stuff makes any difference. It's the same in any business!
Going to smaller framed cows should mean more total cows raised. If you go to smaller frame and still have the same number of cows, no wonder you are disappointed. The whole idea with PCC, OCC and other small cattle is low input and higher stocking rate. Getting smaller cattle is just one third of the program--the third that, in the long run, is going to make the least change. Kit Pharo and the others tout their small cattle because that is what they sell--the low input and higher stocking rates are sold separately. That's the part that's up to you. Getting small cattle without the full program is like an alcoholic drinking from a smaller glass--same old problems.
If you are considering a change to Pharo cattle it must be that you feel something is not right with your cattle. Ask yourself "will size fix my problems?" Chances are excellent that it won't. Remember "nothing changes until something changes".

And why do some of you bad-mouth Mr. Pharo? You act as though salesmanship and good marketing are sins. Kit Pharo is happy and rich and from all I can tell, honest and honorable. Some one to be admired and emulated.

You have a point about stocking rate and profit. However, you fail to consider that a packer simply will not take a steer that finishes at 800-900 pounds and a frame 4. If it doesn't fit the box, they don't want it. They also don't want a finished steer over 1400. Those are facts, not views. You may get simply severely docked, or may not get sold at all. For a niche, direct to consumer market, you don't have to worry about carcass size. For the commercial cattleman, selling feeders or even stockers, it is a huge deal. The ability to stock more cows doesn't mean diddly squat if you can't sell the offspring.

As for the obvious disdain some regard Mr Pharo with, it is mostly because he is a salesman. Some would say a salesman before a cattleman. Some of us simply don't drink the cool aid he is pitching. There is a counterpart to Mr Pharo in the club calf industry. He is a great with marketing and branding. He has tons of fancy bulls and sells more straws of semen a year than most can imagine. There are those that drink his coo laid, and those that do not.

Your point about adequate weight is taken. Kit claims that his animals DO weigh 1200-1250 when finished, the only difference being the height. Many other small cattle people make the same claim--they can't all be liars, can they? If it is true, why would a packer want two more inches of leg bone?

 

[ddd75]

Hey guys, it's about TOTAL PROFIT, not profit per cow or profit per acre or profit per hour or profit per anything, it's TOTAL PROFIT that counts--none of this other stuff makes any difference. It's the same in any business!
Going to smaller framed cows should mean more total cows raised. If you go to smaller frame and still have the same number of cows, no wonder you are disappointed. The whole idea with PCC, OCC and other small cattle is low input and higher stocking rate. Getting smaller cattle is just one third of the program--the third that, in the long run, is going to make the least change. Kit Pharo and the others tout their small cattle because that is what they sell--the low input and higher stocking rates are sold separately. That's the part that's up to you. Getting small cattle without the full program is like an alcoholic drinking from a smaller glass--same old problems.
If you are considering a change to Pharo cattle it must be that you feel something is not right with your cattle. Ask yourself "will size fix my problems?" Chances are excellent that it won't. Remember "nothing changes until something changes".

And why do some of you bad-mouth Mr. Pharo? You act as though salesmanship and good marketing are sins. Kit Pharo is happy and rich and from all I can tell, honest and honorable. Some one to be admired and emulated.

You have a point about stocking rate and profit. However, you fail to consider that a packer simply will not take a steer that finishes at 800-900 pounds and a frame 4. If it doesn't fit the box, they don't want it. They also don't want a finished steer over 1400. Those are facts, not views. You may get simply severely docked, or may not get sold at all. For a niche, direct to consumer market, you don't have to worry about carcass size. For the commercial cattleman, selling feeders or even stockers, it is a huge deal. The ability to stock more cows doesn't mean diddly squat if you can't sell the offspring.

As for the obvious disdain some regard Mr Pharo with, it is mostly because he is a salesman. Some would say a salesman before a cattleman. Some of us simply don't drink the cool aid he is pitching. There is a counterpart to Mr Pharo in the club calf industry. He is a great with marketing and branding. He has tons of fancy bulls and sells more straws of semen a year than most can imagine. There are those that drink his coo laid, and those that do not.

Your point about adequate weight is taken. Kit claims that his animals DO weigh 1200-1250 when finished, the only difference being the height. Many other small cattle people make the same claim--they can't all be liars, can they? If it is true, why would a packer want two more inches of leg bone?

until I see a person successfully use those cows and profit, I'll keep what I have.

The only way to profit with those cows.. IMO.. is to have a customer base to sell finished animals. I know a guy who does this..he has very small cows. it takes him abuot 26 months to 'finish' a cow.. He makes good money on them but I can sell 2 sets of calves by then and still make more.. w/o having to deal with anyone.

Everyone I have seen with these type of cattle do NOT need any money from them. They are more of a hobby.. they have no idea their true costs, etc.. they do it for fun or something.. I have no idea but I wouldn't be putting in a ton of money and time into something for 'fun'..

on top of that small revenue from these cows.. they cost a ton to buy! factor in 2-3k heifers, 4-6k bulls.. I'm buying top notch herefords and angus for 1-1.5k right now.

so factor in a 2 - 3x herd price.. then a 2x time frame to sell plus customer acquisition cost.. you're losing.
forget the customers? ok, now take a 1.5 - 2x loss at the yard.

 

[ddd75]

on top of that.. in a range / large pasture situation.. I would MUCH rather have a large momma defending her big 70 lb newborn who can get up and about beat up a coyote vs. a small momma defending her 50 lb calf who takes about 2 days to actually get up going.

 

[Ebenezer]

Your point about adequate weight is taken. Kit claims that his animals DO weigh 1200-1250 when finished, the only difference being the height. Many other small cattle people make the same claim--they can't all be liars, can they? If it is true, why would a packer want two more inches of leg bone?

Trim fat. Weight is weight alive but fat and meat are quite different from excess fat and meat. Do a little looking at short cattle with high weights: fat.

And why do some of you bad-mouth Mr. Pharo? You act as though salesmanship and good marketing are sins. Kit Pharo is happy and rich and from all I can tell, honest and honorable. Some one to be admired and emulated.

He does not live by the golden rule in that he sets up other cattlemen as benign blobs in a strawman argument to base his OPINIONS. Why is his argument unfair and unkind? He bad mouths the "mainstream" and implies that all cattleman and catttle women who do not buy his cattle and do it his way are stupid followers and are all lumped into the stupid "mainstream". If every time I called you or asked you to do something for me or try to believe me I started off saying, "Hey dumb guy who follows the crowd of dummies and can't think - come over here and buy my cow", tell me how you would rate my religion or just my character? There is deception to travel all over the USA and more and not admit that short cattle get severely docked and not tell it or say it.

 

[Muddy]

We do had some small framed calves from Galloway influenced cows occasionally and these calves didn't sell good at the sale barns.