rouxshortorn
Well-known member
What do people use or do on organic cows when their sick?? What tricks or herbs to use for different sicknesses.
Organic Meds
- Thread starter rouxshortorn
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generally organic growers that have to medicate use conventional products but then sell those animals outside of the organic label/market
badaxemoo
Well-known member
rouxshortorn":3e6uzp64 said:
I have been told by veteran organic producers that many of the organic "cures" are generally a waste of money.
I think it is more important to select hardy cattle that fit your environment and use conventional meds only when necessary.
rouxshortorn
Well-known member
so there is no way to organicly deworm a cow or to treat scour's?badaxemoo":1kl4f25z said:
you can treat scours without antibiotics. Electrolytes, replace digestive organisms with live culture yoghurt or commercial products, and good nursing/clean environment - if the case isn't too bad it should run its course in a few days.
Better to prevent if possible, though no matter whether organic or not.
Better to prevent if possible, though no matter whether organic or not.
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
I'll make some assumptions here:
Any official "organic" plant or animal will (due to law of averages and statistical probability) be subject to more ills and pathogens due to the producers not being allowed to use "conventional" pesticides and other inorganic chemicals. This is why meat and vegetables grown organically cost more...to make up for production losses.
That said:
IMO the first line of defense in producing organic meat is to have a very clean and reasonably sanitary environment initially and continually. The second line of defense is to only start with and raise very healthy animals from the onset and continually. The third line of defense is to provide high quality nutrition, minerals, and clean water.
The organic realm is a difficult road to travel due to one's limited options in one's production (including all of the government rules and regulations).
That said, IMO the most "reasonable" road to travel is to raise "grass fed animals" and don't touch the steroids, implants, and other growth enhancers that create overly fat animals with a lot of fat to be trimmed at the packaged meat end market.
Any official "organic" plant or animal will (due to law of averages and statistical probability) be subject to more ills and pathogens due to the producers not being allowed to use "conventional" pesticides and other inorganic chemicals. This is why meat and vegetables grown organically cost more...to make up for production losses.
That said:
IMO the first line of defense in producing organic meat is to have a very clean and reasonably sanitary environment initially and continually. The second line of defense is to only start with and raise very healthy animals from the onset and continually. The third line of defense is to provide high quality nutrition, minerals, and clean water.
The organic realm is a difficult road to travel due to one's limited options in one's production (including all of the government rules and regulations).
That said, IMO the most "reasonable" road to travel is to raise "grass fed animals" and don't touch the steroids, implants, and other growth enhancers that create overly fat animals with a lot of fat to be trimmed at the packaged meat end market.
Running Arrow Bill":1oyq0uqz said:
Only because we have been selecting for "defective" animals (and plants) that need those pesticides as a crutch to survive for so long. Healthy organisms do not need a bunch of strange chemicals and pesticides to survive and thrive.
If we wanted to, we could probably breed a lot of disease and pest resistance (back) into our animals (and plants) pretty quickly - more money selling petroleum derivatives to dose them with, though so that is where all research and development $$ goes.
This doesn't even take into account simply changing the perception that some things we have been trained to see as problems simple are not.
I'd check your legislation for organic growing. Some places will allow an animal to be treated in an emergency, but there is a limit to the number of treatments it can recieve in its life and still be 'organic'. Most vaccines don't compromise organic status.
Generally though you'd want to have paddock rotations and management practices in place to limit a build up of disease.
Generally though you'd want to have paddock rotations and management practices in place to limit a build up of disease.
badaxemoo
Well-known member
rouxshortorn":3j9tudhf said:
I guess I didn't mean to issue a blanket statement. I'm just saying "be careful". There are a number of catalogs out there with all sorts of organic cure-alls that haven't been scientifically tested and shown to be effective.
Some organic producers use diatemacous (sp?) earth for worming, but I think the research has pretty much shown that it doesn't seem to have an effect. I've got neighbors that swear by some sort of black walnut concoction for worming.
I just think sometimes people bring a conventional mindset with them when they convert to organic and try to fix all of their problems by purchasing inputs. Organic production is more about changing your production system to avoid pitfalls (and probably accepting a lower level of production) than substituting new "organic" inputs for the old conventional ones.
You can go broke overbuying organic inputs even easier than buying conventional ones.
ETF
Well-known member
Our neighbor says a capful of Shakley's Super H liquid detergent every day in the water tank will worm them. Supposedly that's from one of the famous grass-fed writers (Joel Salatin maybe??). Sounds questionable to me but I haven't tried it so can't say definitively one way or the other.
Green Creek
Well-known member
dun":1czwzci8 said:
Dun, I cannot believe you are such a flinty-eyed skeptic ;-)
rouxshortorn
Well-known member
IS this another pyramid company??dun":1kyil9qe said:
There is a product called cell-rate that is all natural and works great. Loomix is the only one in the US that can use it they use it in their cellarator products go to http://www.loomix.com to learn more or http://www.farmandranchsupply.org to buy some.
ETF
Well-known member
"Do they by any chance sell shakleys products"
My first thought too
but no, they do not.
My first thought too
but no, they do not.badaxemoo
Well-known member
And herein lies a problem that needs fixing. Why aren't the land-grant universities doing more research on medications, fertilizers, and other inputs approved for use in organic agriculture?
The organic share of the food market is still tiny - I believe 3 or 4 percent. But the amount of money that public universities spend on organic research is only 3/10s of one percent of their total, and organics are the fastest growing sector of the food market.
Funding should be increased so that funding for organics is at least proportional to its market share. It's only fair.
The organic share of the food market is still tiny - I believe 3 or 4 percent. But the amount of money that public universities spend on organic research is only 3/10s of one percent of their total, and organics are the fastest growing sector of the food market.
Funding should be increased so that funding for organics is at least proportional to its market share. It's only fair.
badaxemoo":2a6ohku1 said:
Because a lot of the funding comes from pharmaceutical companies - they don't have any real motivation to fund research on cheap, readily available, and probably unpatentable treatments. The funding for that kind of research needs to come from somewhere else and until the buying public demands it it isn't going to come from government. That leaves philanthropic organizations like Rodale and such.
Hippie Rancher":8iamu5h2 said:
That's part of it, but I think anotherpart is that if the resesarch came from a university or the gov that the organic movement would claim it wasn;t accurate if it didn;t parrot the organic party line. So why bother?
