Old and set in their ways

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Logan52

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I have usually kept back my own replacement heifers and been well satisfied but have wondered about the economics.
The last few years I have purchased a few older 3in1 packages in the spring. Worked out pretty well.
I got the cattle up yesterday in 85 degree heat and had a hard time. My place is steep and rolling with lots of patches of shade. My home raised cows were no problem and came right in. Each time they approached the lot one of the older purchased cows (most by now 10 yrs. old or older) would break for the shade and I could not stop them. Make a 2 hour job turn into a long hot day.
Next time they make it into the lot they get a free trip to town.
Seems like a cow purchased when she is old never gets with the program like a home raised one.
 
It's a case by case basis if they work for you.

Acres hurts a lot of people when it comes to retaining because they already on the low side for a cow calf operation in general.

Time hurts a lot of people when it comes to buying because they can't sit at an AB multiple times a week for weeks on end buying cows or drive all over the country side looking for cows.
 
We like retaining heifers because we know the genetics and docility of the mothers and grandmothers. But, with feeder prices up now it's getting expensive to keep and wait two years before you get a return. My dad always said he could buy bred replacements cheaper than raising our own, but you never know what you get with what you buy. Some of the best behaved cows we have are ones we bought private treaty where we could walk the guy's pasture and see how they acted around us.
 
I've bought a handful of younger pairs this year. Mainly to let em raise a calf, re-breed, and re-sell.
MOST of the danged things have gotten right with the program!!
I have ONE at my lease place who don't have it figured out yet. I bought her to calve out and re-sell or possibly use as a nurse cow.
Hopefully come winter time she gets with the program. But I don't think she'll make the latter option. Hopefully she makes a good calf anyway.
 
When my daughters showed lambs we were always buying ewes from various places and changing the goals of what we were wanting to do in the sheep business. I was constantly having problems with foot rot and abortions. It seemed we never moved forward toward improvement.
I finally set a goal of easy care BF wool sheep of the club lamb type (not necessarily winners in competition) and raised all my replacements with the exception of a ram from time to time.
With each passing year they became easier to care for, more attractive as a uniform flock, and bonded and adapted to the land.
I mention sheep because the generational turnover is much quicker and you can see the effects of your decisions more quickly.
I think many of these lessons and principals apply to cattle as well.
 
We've kept or bought heifers for several years now. At the end of the day I honestly see no difference in cost and 50/50 on keeping vs. buying. We do enjoy keeping heifers vs. buying which goes along ways. I have noticed that our Brangus type cattle have faired far better than our more straight Angus type cattle in the hot summers we've been having in Texas so, this year we made the switch to Brangus bulls. We plan on retaining our own heifers from here on out to build a Brangus based herd. I'm letting y'all know this because I expect once we get to all Brangus the earth will swap to a cooling phase 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
I have usually kept back my own replacement heifers and been well satisfied but have wondered about the economics.
The last few years I have purchased a few older 3in1 packages in the spring. Worked out pretty well.
I got the cattle up yesterday in 85 degree heat and had a hard time. My place is steep and rolling with lots of patches of shade. My home raised cows were no problem and came right in. Each time they approached the lot one of the older purchased cows (most by now 10 yrs. old or older) would break for the shade and I could not stop them. Make a 2 hour job turn into a long hot day.
Next time they make it into the lot they get a free trip to town.
Seems like a cow purchased when she is old never gets with the program like a home raised one.
85 is pretty mild compared to our 100 degree days. Time of day May be in play as to their willingness to cooperate if they are hot. Mine will somewhat cooperate mornings between 7 and 9 and afternoons starting around 5 after they've hit the water troughs. I try for mornings. Cooler for them AND myself.
 
It's a case by case basis if they work for you.

Acres hurts a lot of people when it comes to retaining because they already on the low side for a cow calf operation in general.

Time hurts a lot of people when it comes to buying because they can't sit at an AB multiple times a week for weeks on end buying cows or drive all over the country side looking for cows.
Growing up, my granddaddy never did raise a heifer, We sold them at weaning and bought another cow when we needed one. Never fed a steer out to butcher, either., His idea was take them to the sale at weaning, then take the money, stop by Wynn Dixie on the way home and buy what steaks you wanted. I still feel that way too. Only ones I ever butchered were the 3 or 4 in 60 years that broke a leg and I had to shoot them. And, if you count in with it, the lost revenue from growing a heifer to 2 yr old, then weaning her calf 6 mos later, plus the cost to feed, vet, worm, vacc etc., I could take the total of all that money and buy you a much better cow....at a cow sale.... than you will ever raise, and have a few dollars left over. And, you will have a calf to sell in 7 to15 mos instead of 2 and 1/2 years. Less than that if I buy you a pair. But, like @Brute 23 said, you might have to spend a hell of a lot of time...and drive the wheels off a new truck, in order to find them. Or maybe not...might find what you are looking for at the first sale you go to 20 miles down the road. Ya never know.

But, I understand those who want to develop their own "lines", even in a crossed-up commercial herd. They do it out of pride, though, it can't ever be the most economical. IMO. @Ky hills has been working real hard at building his program, and the results he has posted has shown he is being successful at it. Then there are those who retain and raise heifers to sell for replacement heifers. Like the dude Clay and I met in July, that has the 30 reg black Simm cows and the 30 reg Chi-Angus cows, that AI's with sexed semen to produce those black Simm/Chi-angus heifers. But, when one of his original 30 Ch-Ang or Simm cows is close to aging out, he breeds her to sexed semen from a same breed bull, and raises her replacement. Every one of the 60 cows that is not one of the originals, are a daughter of one. He is adamant about no more new blood, which is crazy, because I know on the Simm side at least, he could get as good or better from someone like @Jeanne - Simme Valley or @simme.

If you wanted to buy your replacements, but didn't have time to travel the country, spend night after night, searching the internet, driving thousands of miles pulling trailers to go to auctions, etc, you can hire someone that does what I do, to do this for you. In the last year and a half, I bought a client 150 Braford and f1 BR x Hereford, which he sold, and I had buy him another 150. Bought another client 80 1st and 2nd calf Brahmas, then bought him 50 more open heifers. He is breeding 50 of these Brahmas, to a homo for black and polled Black Hereford, using sexed semen.,, and he just asked me to find him 20-30 registered Red Brangus. He is planning on producing what I call "A$$-backwards super baldies"!! I subbed this out to Clay, though, Just had eye surgery and I can't take the sun just yet. Maybe by this weekend I can . I sent Clay to look ay 2 sets in south GA Monday, and tonight he is headed to the Ocala area to look at some more I found.
 
Growing up, my granddaddy never did raise a heifer, We sold them at weaning and bought another cow when we needed one. Never fed a steer out to butcher, either., His idea was take them to the sale at weaning, then take the money, stop by Wynn Dixie on the way home and buy what steaks you wanted. I still feel that way too. Only ones I ever butchered were the 3 or 4 in 60 years that broke a leg and I had to shoot them. And, if you count in with it, the lost revenue from growing a heifer to 2 yr old, then weaning her calf 6 mos later, plus the cost to feed, vet, worm, vacc etc., I could take the total of all that money and buy you a much better cow....at a cow sale.... than you will ever raise, and have a few dollars left over. And, you will have a calf to sell in 7 to15 mos instead of 2 and 1/2 years. Less than that if I buy you a pair. But, like @Brute 23 said, you might have to spend a hell of a lot of time...and drive the wheels off a new truck, in order to find them. Or maybe not...might find what you are looking for at the first sale you go to 20 miles down the road. Ya never know.

But, I understand those who want to develop their own "lines", even in a crossed-up commercial herd. They do it out of pride, though, it can't ever be the most economical. IMO. @Ky hills has been working real hard at building his program, and the results he has posted has shown he is being successful at it. Then there are those who retain and raise heifers to sell for replacement heifers. Like the dude Clay and I met in July, that has the 30 reg black Simm cows and the 30 reg Chi-Angus cows, that AI's with sexed semen to produce those black Simm/Chi-angus heifers. But, when one of his original 30 Ch-Ang or Simm cows is close to aging out, he breeds her to sexed semen from a same breed bull, and raises her replacement. Every one of the 60 cows that is not one of the originals, are a daughter of one. He is adamant about no more new blood, which is crazy, because I know on the Simm side at least, he could get as good or better from someone like @Jeanne - Simme Valley or @simme.

If you wanted to buy your replacements, but didn't have time to travel the country, spend night after night, searching the internet, driving thousands of miles pulling trailers to go to auctions, etc, you can hire someone that does what I do, to do this for you. In the last year and a half, I bought a client 150 Braford and f1 BR x Hereford, which he sold, and I had buy him another 150. Bought another client 80 1st and 2nd calf Brahmas, then bought him 50 more open heifers. He is breeding 50 of these Brahmas, to a homo for black and polled Black Hereford, using sexed semen.,, and he just asked me to find him 20-30 registered Red Brangus. He is planning on producing what I call "A$$-backwards super baldies"!! I subbed this out to Clay, though, Just had eye surgery and I can't take the sun just yet. Maybe by this weekend I can . I sent Clay to look ay 2 sets in south GA Monday, and tonight he is headed to the Ocala area to look at some more I found.
That's nonsense.
 
"But, I understand those who want to develop their own "lines", even in a crossed-up commercial herd. They do it out of pride, though, it can't ever be the most economical. "

As if every purchased cow did well, did not bring in disease or problems... It has nothing to do with pride. It can be economical if you develop properly, make culling decisions along the way to sell extra weight or bred heifers and have sound genetics. You'll never know your cattle if you never see multi-generations.
 
85 is pretty mild compared to our 100 degree days. Time of day May be in play as to their willingness to cooperate if they are hot. Mine will somewhat cooperate mornings between 7 and 9 and afternoons starting around 5 after they've hit the water troughs. I try for mornings. Cooler for them AND myself.
Cows have their own schedule every day too. I could just about set a watch by what time they started moving around each morning, when they would be under a group of trees and what part of the pasture they would come grazing into late afternoons. Could part of that (bold type) also be their own routine ... that is, they haven't yet settled into their habitual daily round of grazing-resting/cud chewing and working them early, you haven't disrupted what they do every day??
 

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