No shade for cattle

[Dave]

On the flip side of the coin there are certainly lots of cattle that seem to do just fine with no shade. Large parts of the west and the prairie states. The sandhills of Nebraska. The Flint hills of Kansas. Nevada. There isn't any shade for entire counties. They have lots cattle and very few if any have an ear on them. They have lots of hot weather too.

So can you run your MIG in such a manner that if there is a real hot day you can run them into a field with shade avaiable. I would think you could. I know that I manage my MIG on the fly and adjust acording to a lot of different situations.

 

[TexasBred]

On the flip side of the coin there are certainly lots of cattle that seem to do just fine with no shade. Large parts of the west and the prairie states. The sandhills of Nebraska. The Flint hills of Kansas. Nevada. There isn't any shade for entire counties. They have lots cattle and very few if any have an ear on them. They have lots of hot weather too.

So can you run your MIG in such a manner that if there is a real hot day you can run them into a field with shade avaiable. I would think you could. I know that I manage my MIG on the fly and adjust acording to a lot of different situations.

Dave I guess you just gotta be here to feel the heat. It gets hot everywhere but it's 90 by 8 AM and 98 when you go to bed at 10. And humidities during that time can be 50-60%. I'm sure those cattle in the states you mentioned do well where they are but move'em all down here and you'll see what happens pretty quickly.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I was told one time that its not the hot days that hurt the cattle . It's not being able to cool down at night because it stays 90 degrees until mid night .

 

[baleflipper]

Shade isnt a problem here,Mesquites make good shade. So much shade it kills the grass.Last couple weeks been pushing mesquites over with dozer so cows can get to the beans and leaves,lots of beans all ready on the ground.
My cattle are Hereford Brahma crosses,the cows will dang near climb a tree for some green.
I have heard that our area,Bastrop /Caldwell county area is hardest hit .All I know is its dry.

 

[Dave]

I realize there is a big difference between 100 degrees in the Nevada desert and 100 degrees on the gulf coast. I have been to both places and I am not a big fan of heat. And those Nevada cows do try to find shade under sagebrush. But I digress. My point and way of thinking was that the original poster was from Kentucky which heat wise is somewhere in between. And he said that the way he planned his MIG there weren't trees in all the fields. That means there were trees in some of the fields. So work the rotation the best you can to put cows in fields with shade on the hottest days. It probably wont work perfect but it could be worked.

 

[djinwa]

I have brangus cows and some Brahma cross yellow ,red white face . Etc I dont see any difference one way or the other in my cows .when they have plenty to eat all of them seek shade in the heat of the day . When pasture gets low all of them graze during the day . My brangus are black but they are slick haired not furry like an Angus .

Are you saying color makes no difference? Of course light colored cattle can get hot. But dark haired cattle are definitely hotter than lighter colored. It is a law of physics. If you don't believe that, then I assume you wear black in the summer.

 

[djinwa]

I have brangus cows and some Brahma cross yellow ,red white face . Etc I dont see any difference one way or the other in my cows .when they have plenty to eat all of them seek shade in the heat of the day . When pasture gets low all of them graze during the day . My brangus are black but they are slick haired not furry like an Angus .

Are you saying color makes no difference? Of course light colored cattle can get hot. But dark haired cattle are definitely hotter than lighter colored. It is a law of physics. If you don't believe that, then I assume you wear black in the summer.

There is a reason more black cattle die in heat waves.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I have brangus cows and some Brahma cross yellow ,red white face . Etc I dont see any difference one way or the other in my cows .when they have plenty to eat all of them seek shade in the heat of the day . When pasture gets low all of them graze during the day . My brangus are black but they are slick haired not furry like an Angus .

Are you saying color makes no difference? Of course light colored cattle can get hot. But dark haired cattle are definitely hotter than lighter colored. It is a law of physics. If you don't believe that, then I assume you wear black in the summer.

it doesn't seem to matter when they have ear. So you think black multiplies the heat? Take a laser thermometer out and shoot a black cow and a red cow in the sun both will be way over their comfort level . I'm sure some black cows have trouble in the heat but f1 brangus cows tolerate it as well as any red cow .and I wear Long sleeved shirts to work and some are black . I also work out side . But there's a difference in 100 degrees with .10% humidity and
100degrees 70% humidity. But to say all black cows can't stand the heat because they are black is crazy. And I've never drove down the road and saw a pasture of dead black cows with the pasture across the road full of grazing red or yellow cows .

 

[novatech]

There is a big difference in being able to survive the heat and thriving in the heat. I don't care what the breed or the color, cattle do better with some shade. Even pure bred Brahman will do more grazing and breeding at night than during the day.
Providing shade is better for the cattle which can be lead to more profit via less stress, more milk, better condition, better fertility.

 

[TexasBred]

I have brangus cows and some Brahma cross yellow ,red white face . Etc I dont see any difference one way or the other in my cows .when they have plenty to eat all of them seek shade in the heat of the day . When pasture gets low all of them graze during the day . My brangus are black but they are slick haired not furry like an Angus .

Are you saying color makes no difference? Of course light colored cattle can get hot. But dark haired cattle are definitely hotter than lighter colored. It is a law of physics. If you don't believe that, then I assume you wear black in the summer.

Very few of any color cattle drop dead from heat stroke .. more times than not it's a simple lack of a feed supply and adequate water...but certain breeds and hybrids definitely handle the heat much better if they have no shade. What color "people" handle heat best and why??

 

[dun]

I have brangus cows and some Brahma cross yellow ,red white face . Etc I dont see any difference one way or the other in my cows .when they have plenty to eat all of them seek shade in the heat of the day . When pasture gets low all of them graze during the day . My brangus are black but they are slick haired not furry like an Angus .

Are you saying color makes no difference? Of course light colored cattle can get hot. But dark haired cattle are definitely hotter than lighter colored. It is a law of physics. If you don't believe that, then I assume you wear black in the summer.

Very few of any color cattle drop dead from heat stroke .. more times than not it's a simple lack of a feed supply and adequate water...but certain breeds and hybrids definitely handle the heat much better if they have no shade. What color "people" handle heat best and why??

Everyone is talking about heat but that isn;t the issue with color. SUN is the issue. Cows in shade, red balck, green or polka dotted are all going to be about the same. In the sun is where the dark colored (even very dark red) will be less comfortable then a white one. But what about the glare of the sun into their eyes from the white?

 

[dieselbeef]

my cattle are almost always laying down in the am when i go to work ..430...they do much more grazing even in the heat of the day..

 

[djinwa]

Everyone is talking about heat but that isn;t the issue with color. SUN is the issue. Cows in shade, red balck, green or polka dotted are all going to be about the same. In the sun is where the dark colored (even very dark red) will be less comfortable then a white one. But what about the glare of the sun into their eyes from the white?

I know it is an issue in the sun. I am assuming that cattle need to go out in the sun. Doesn't seem like the goal should be keeping them in the shade.

There are cattle without white eyes. My british white have black eyes - murray grey are pigmented, as are red angus, etc.

I find it fascinating that people say color doesn't make any difference. All the articles I posted mention it. The studies on death in feedlots say black cattle died much more than lighter color.

I guess you can make black brangus to compensate some, but then you lose performance.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/home.cfm?trackID=11616

Current information using modern cattle is needed so that cow-calf producers in the Southern region can make informed breeding decisions to profitably produce cattle under their environmental challenges. Tropically-adapted breeds such as the Brahman (and to a lesser extent other adapted breeds such as those of Criollo or Sanga origin), are used widely in this region, however their offspring have a reputation for poor performance in stocker and feedlot operations on the Great Plains. As a result, many cow-calf producers in this region are attempting to use non-adapted cattle, such as British or other Bos taurus breeds.
--------------------------------------------------
In most areas of the world, cattle destined for slaughter are fattened on grass. In the southern U.S. this requires cattle that are well-adapted to the ambient conditions (high temperature and humidity) and it is usually expected that only Bos indicus or Bos indicus crosses can be sufficiently adapted to such conditions to grow rapidly and efficiently. Since both a light coat color and a short hair length contribute significantly to increased heat tolerance, it is possible that the combination of short hair and lighter coloration will result in an animal with high growth potential under grazing conditions in the southern U.S. without Bos indicus influence.

 

[djinwa]

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen ... 0study.pdf

Producers with the nonshaded
lots reported highest death loss in dark-hided
cattle. Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
loss in black cattle and the other six producers
indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
of the cattle in the pen were black, but 80% of the
death loss was black cattle.

 

[novatech]

Everyone is talking about heat but that isn;t the issue with color. SUN is the issue. Cows in shade, red balck, green or polka dotted are all going to be about the same. In the sun is where the dark colored (even very dark red) will be less comfortable then a white one. But what about the glare of the sun into their eyes from the white?

I know it is an issue in the sun. I am assuming that cattle need to go out in the sun. Doesn't seem like the goal should be keeping them in the shade.

There are cattle without white eyes. My british white have black eyes - murray grey are pigmented, as are red angus, etc.

I find it fascinating that people say color doesn't make any difference. All the articles I posted mention it. The studies on death in feedlots say black cattle died much more than lighter color.

I guess you can make black brangus to compensate some, but then you lose performance.

http://nimss.umd.edu/homepages/home.cfm?trackID=11616

Current information using modern cattle is needed so that cow-calf producers in the Southern region can make informed breeding decisions to profitably produce cattle under their environmental challenges. Tropically-adapted breeds such as the Brahman (and to a lesser extent other adapted breeds such as those of Criollo or Sanga origin), are used widely in this region, however their offspring have a reputation for poor performance in stocker and feedlot operations on the Great Plains. As a result, many cow-calf producers in this region are attempting to use non-adapted cattle, such as British or other Bos taurus breeds.
--------------------------------------------------
In most areas of the world, cattle destined for slaughter are fattened on grass. In the southern U.S. this requires cattle that are well-adapted to the ambient conditions (high temperature and humidity) and it is usually expected that only Bos indicus or Bos indicus crosses can be sufficiently adapted to such conditions to grow rapidly and efficiently. Since both a light coat color and a short hair length contribute significantly to increased heat tolerance, it is possible that the combination of short hair and lighter coloration will result in an animal with high growth potential under grazing conditions in the southern U.S. without Bos indicus influence.

The 2 lines in bold seem to contradict each other.
I have never heard that Brahman cross had a bad rep. for performance. In the winter yes but in the heat they excell. Not only because of heat tolarence but hybred vigor.

 

[JSCATTLE]

If brangus are poor performers it doesn't show at the sale.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If brangus are poor performers it doesn't show at the sale.

If I had the grass I would love to have about 25 like TB raises. Just send me that kind of Brangus and I will buy the hay.

 

[jack1234]

I always thought the Brahman handled summers better because they dissipate heat via their extra-loose skin and lanky build rather than just extra short hair. I've seen some pretty slick-hided bos taurus cattle...

edit: heck, even the ears are designed to dissipate heat. I imagine they frostbite real well up north.

 

[TexasBred]

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen'sConference/heat%20stress%20study.pdf

Producers with the nonshaded
lots reported highest death loss in dark-hided
cattle. Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
loss in black cattle and the other six producers
indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
of the cattle in the pen were black, but 80% of the
death loss was black cattle.

The original question was about pasture cattle, not feedlot. In Texas I'll put my brangus cows AND calves up against your reds or whites day in and day out in this weather we're experiencing and I'll do great. If I take the calves to the salebarn they'll also bring a premium. They love those slick, black, shiny short haired calves with muscle and alertness. Hauled "Grandma'" calf to the sale last week, weighed 270 lbs. brought $1.78 a lb. and was 2 months old. Not bad for a calf that weighed 68 lbs. when he was born and nursing a mama that was 16 years old.

 

[andybob]

Caustic, I know you have fine tuned your management to where you pencill in a profit when many are losing money in the cattle business, your Tigerstripes have served you well, as has the Brahman breed as a whole in the southern states, the only wish on your "wish list" as far as I remember, has been for a little more coat during the worst of the cold weather, not a trait that Sanga breeds would help with, just added heterosis, and possibly an increased conception rate, I always promote these cattle as an ideal F1 damline for commercial ranchers.
@Novatech, the southern Sanga were presumed to be a taurindicus for many years, and we were taught as much at college, the Taurus breeds began migrating from Eqypt about 2500 years before the Indicus breeds appeared in Egypt. Archealogical evidence shows that the pure Taurus arrived south of the Zambezi river 2000 years ago having migrated through the northern deserts, savanna, tropical forests, equatorial forests, southern tropical forest and settled in the bushveld/desert regeons of Southern Africa, havinghad immense selective pressure through severe environments, parasites and many diseases. The Indicus followed resulting in many hybrid typed developing in the north, some tribes retaining their pure Taurus (N'dama for example) and some remaining pure Indicus (Boran for example) the Indicus never reached south of the Zambezi, leaving the breeds there pure adapted Taurus, this was only proven in the 1980's when the Australian government DNA tested these breeds proving them to be pure Taurus. It is a pity that politics prevented these breeds being imported to the USA much sooner, while I don't believe that they will or should replace the Brahman and other available Indicus breeds and composites, I believe they will play an important part in the beef industry in the USA bridging the gap between European Taurus, and Indicus, being complimentary to both in crossbreeding programs, especially as I have mentioned, as fertile, low maintenence damlines with longevity being another popular trait in the crosses and composites.