New to Fescue-help pease

[Runningriverranch]

Morning folks!
New boy here surfing for some helpful hints on Fescue toxicity.
We are new to Virginia and to Fescue. We raise Highland Cattle among other things.
I have been grazing Fescue pastures for the last year. This spring I spread 60lbN/acre but no rain. It matured early with very low vegetation. So from what I can surmise this is ideal conditions for Fescue Toxicity? I have been feeding free choice Hi Mag minerals with Tasco to try to mitigate the effects. Does this sound right to y'all?
So, I have a listless lady. Temp 106+ drooling, panting, lost weight, little wobbly. Gotta believe this is Toxicity? She still has her winter coat and it's been 90+ here last week. Strange that she is the only one with acute symptoms although others are showing some heat problems. (not to mention the darn Flies!)
Have tried PenG antibiotic but that didn't bring down the temp. Also gave her Banamine and am feeding ground corn and soy (16%) and some third cutting fescue hayfrom last year that s leafy. It's been three days and she seems to be getting weaker.
Any helpful hints would be very mch appreciated. Thank you

Sorry this is so long.
P & P

 

[rkm]

I'm sure people on this board can give you good advise on toxicity. Mine is take her to the vet. You may have already waited too long.

 

[dj]

For the cow, get a vet.
Legumes in your fields to counter the endophyte.

 

[Runningriverranch]

Thanks, I have tried to overseed using clover,rye and millet ( different seasns) with very limited success. Even close cutting the fescue beforehand didn't seem to improve results much . Ext. guys tell me that with an old stand of fescue it is really tough to get anything else to grow? Have started to renovate pastures with new seeding but sadly it will take time.

 

[dj]

I'd wait till winter to broadcast the clover seed.
Here we try to let the snow take in down to the ground.
You might try broadcasting and then letting the cows graze behind that. They will walk it in. I haven't had any problems getting them established here. And these stands are at least 40 yrs old. In the meantime maybe supplement with a legume hay?

 

[denoginnizer]

In addition to planting clover ,you might consider replacing the cow with a cow that has more brahman influence. The brahman type cows seem to be able to deal with fescue better than straight english bred cows. I have pretty good luck running cows with about a quarter ear and even better luck with the half blooded cows. The calves off the half blooded brahman cows take a pretty big deduction at sale time though.

 

[Aero]

In addition to planting clover ,you might consider replacing the cow with a cow that has more brahman influence. The brahman type cows seem to be able to deal with fescue better than straight english bred cows. I have pretty good luck running cows with about a quarter ear and even better luck with the half blooded cows. The calves off the half blooded brahman cows take a pretty big deduction at sale time though.

we have very few problems with fescue and have 99% British cattle.

Max Q has worked pretty well. it is an endophyte-free fescue that establishes and grows well for us in NC.

 

[dun]

In addition to planting clover ,you might consider replacing the cow with a cow that has more brahman influence. The brahman type cows seem to be able to deal with fescue better than straight english bred cows. I have pretty good luck running cows with about a quarter ear and even better luck with the half blooded cows. The calves off the half blooded brahman cows take a pretty big deduction at sale time though.

we have very few problems with fescue and have 99% British cattle.

Max Q has worked pretty well. it is an endophyte-free fescue that establishes and grows well for us in NC.

We have british cattle and high endophyte fescue and although we may be giving up some in total performance, the cows breed back on time, raise good calves and don;t suffer as much from the heat as the neighbors cows that are standing in ponds all day long. Ours are fenced out of the ponds and they'll be out grazing most of the day. They take a break and shad up from around 11 am to 4 pm, but they do that winter or summer.

dun

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Morning folks!
New boy here surfing for some helpful hints on Fescue toxicity.
We are new to Virginia and to Fescue. We raise Highland Cattle among other things.
I have been grazing Fescue pastures for the last year. This spring I spread 60lbN/acre but no rain. It matured early with very low vegetation. So from what I can surmise this is ideal conditions for Fescue Toxicity? I have been feeding free choice Hi Mag minerals with Tasco to try to mitigate the effects. Does this sound right to y'all?
So, I have a listless lady. Temp 106+ drooling, panting, lost weight, little wobbly. Gotta believe this is Toxicity? She still has her winter coat and it's been 90+ here last week. Strange that she is the only one with acute symptoms although others are showing some heat problems. (not to mention the darn Flies!)
Have tried PenG antibiotic but that didn't bring down the temp. Also gave her Banamine and am feeding ground corn and soy (16%) and some third cutting fescue hayfrom last year that s leafy. It's been three days and she seems to be getting weaker.
Any helpful hints would be very mch appreciated. Thank you

Sorry this is so long.
P & P

it aint the fescue. id bet on it. its wrong cattle wrong area. dont think im being a smart A$$ just fact those mountain goats aint made for southern climates

 

[dj]

Well for 1 i graze my cows on fescue and never have a problem. Im thinking nitrate poisoning. Around here people dont nitrogen their fields until fall. In the spring we put fertlizer on it. Since i have 90 acres per my great uncle who is a soil conservationist he recommended 300 pounds per acre of triple 19 fertilizer in march. I did that and we have gotten alot of rain and at one point on some places on the farm the grass was waist high I had to mow it down. The only time we spread nitrogen is around september and then if we get alot of rain it will make the grass grow well into the winter. We didnt get much rain last year and by january 25 i was almost out of grass it was slim pickins. Make sure you have a mineral that is high in copper, and magnesium, and has enough other trace minerals in it such as cobalt, sellinium etc. TO give the cows what they need. Get on a good mineral program. Talk to your county extension agent and see what they recommend. Usually the only fields around here that get nitrogen in the spring are fields that are not grazed and used strictly for hay only.

what was the N part of that triple 19?

 

[Runningriverranch]

Thanks all.
When I said Nitrogen I was just referring to the nitrogen level from the fertilizer I used. It has P & K too but I metioned it as I also suspect nitrite poisoning as we had so little rain since application and veg was short this season. Seems as though this might affect more animals though? The field that I just turned them out on had had no fertilzer this year as I plan to reseed wth Millet for the summer and they were here for just two days before this happened.

On the breed, we have had very good luck with the Highlands for 10 years. Even in Florida they did fine as long as they had shade. This panting thing started in a few last August after we arrived in VA . Same temp as Florida but Fescue. So I am biased in favor of that possibility. Brahma influence is certainly good for heat in Florida and they don't dock you at sale either like in VA.
Wth the exception of a case of pinkeye here last summer I have never had to treat a Highland for any malady Luck maybe? If so, I hope that it isn't changing.
Thanks again

 

[cfpinz]

I think some (individual) cows are just not suited for every environment. If the rest of your cattle are doing fine, I wouldn't be overly concerned, this girl just needs a new home. You can change your cattle to suit the environment, or try and change your environment to suit your cattle. I'll take the former.

cfpinz

 

[cfpinz]

I apologize for blurting out my opinion without answering your questions, that was rude. I live about 2 hours or so north of you and our conditions are similar. Our pastures are mostly fescue, what there is this year. We feed hi mag minerals year-round here. Never used Tasco. My opinion: if you do everything you can to give your cattle what they need to perform, the ones that don't do well have culled themselves. I have a few that breathe raspy this time of year, as long as they raise a healthy calf and don't require special treatment they are welcome.

To ease your mind, call the vet and get a definate answer. We can all guess what is wrong with your cow, but five different guesses won't help you much. Get a firm diagnosis from your vet and if it's something long-term, find her a new home.

By the way, beautiful country in your neck of the woods. I was down there last spring to pick up a tractor from one of your neighbors. A "Tobacco Special" Ford, imagine that.

cfpinz

 

[dj]

what was the N part of that triple 19?

I think that would be 19/19/19 of NPK.
regards

Can't be. He doesn't use nitrogen in the spring he uses fertilizer.

 

[dun]

My apologies. Triple 19 must be a brand name.
regards

It's the properties of the fertilizer. 19 N, 19 P, 19 K

dun

 

[jnowack]

Thanks, I have tried to overseed using clover,rye and millet ( different seasns) with very limited success. Even close cutting the fescue beforehand didn't seem to improve results much . Ext. guys tell me that with an old stand of fescue it is really tough to get anything else to grow? Have started to renovate pastures with new seeding but sadly it will take time.

I started to re-seed an old fescue pasture a few years ago, ran the offset disk over it and got a rain, the clover came in so thick from just breaking up the sod that I didn't do anything more with it.

 

[Runningriverranch]

To ease your mind, call the vet and get a definate answer. We can all guess what is wrong with your cow, but five different guesses won't help you much. Get a firm diagnosis from your vet and if it's something long-term, find her a new home.

By the way, beautiful country in your neck of the woods. I was down there last spring to pick up a tractor from one of your neighbors. A "Tobacco Special" Ford, imagine that.

cfpinz[/quote]

Hi again and thanks.
Since we left our New York dairy and the wonderful services of Dr. Frank Welcome-now at Cornell, I have had a healthy scepticism about vets. (plus I don't have a day job to pay the bills). I am not closed minded but do very much respect the OJT of all you hands-on guys that see and deal with problems every day.
As I mentioned, we did see our first signs of overheating last year but this year it is different cows that seem to be having a hard time early on.
I don't think that water could be a problem because I have observed the waterers open often. Highlands do have a very strict pecking order and continually challenge that status quo
(I haven't seen that in Jersey or Holstein to the same extent so don't know if this is normal in other breeds) so boss cows can be a problem for meaker animlals around feed troughs and waterers at certain times.
P&P

 

[Runningriverranch]

I started to re-seed an old fescue pasture a few years ago, ran the offset disk over it and got a rain, the clover came in so thick from just breaking up the sod that I didn't do anything more with it.

[/quote]
I like the idea and I may try that although I would like to completely renovate which is, of course, kinda tough without chemicals.

 

[Diehard40]

Got to jump in here.
Every thing initially mentioned would go along with fescue toxicity problems and could also go along with nitrate. all animals are different in their response to the endophyte fungus in fescue. I strongly believe there is a breed effect and a within breed effect. I think a lot of genetics comes in to play with this issue. In my herd if an animal is out their panting and looking rough in the summer she goes and so does her babies. To combat the endophyte deal you can (as mentioned) simply add clovers (talk to someone that really knows how to do it and has done it in the past). You can also go with the Max Q although that isn't cheap and if you have traditional native fescue in joining fields then it is likely that those seed can get into the new Max Q field. It is hard to get rid of all the old fescue. And by the way Max Q IS NOT an endophyte free variety of fescue. It does have the endophyte in it, but it is a "friendly" version of the endophyte. Also study up on soil fertility and nutrient needs of forages.

 

[jnowack]

I like the idea and I may try that although I would like to completely renovate which is, of course, kinda tough without chemicals.[/quote]

I see your point on wanting to get rid of the fescue. I just don't know if it is possible to get it gone and keep it gone. We have reseeded hay fields with timothy, brome, orchard grass, and clover, but the fescue always comes back and after a few years we have to do it again. I wonder if there are any other grasses that will overtake the fescue and keep it choked out.