Need help from Hereford guys

[black and red]

Hereford Guys,
I'm starting a registered hereford herd. A little background: I own an ag business, rent my row crop farm out and I run 65 head of cattle that is my "hobby turned almost a second full time job" and that number will be 95 next year. My family used to raise herefords and I've been chomping at the bit to start my own herd. I own 50% interests in 2 donor cows. 1 is a SHF Progress daughter, 1 is a full sister to MSU Revolution 4R. I ET'd some of my commerical heifers to Full Tank and the Progress daughter so hopefully i'll see some results this spring. I have purchased a couple Star Lake heifers and a bred heifer from the MSU dispersal. 2 of the 3 females I own are Remitall Online daughters - with one being a full sister to Olivia at Star Lake. I didn't get crazy with spending $$$ but I didn't skimp either. I plan on buying a few more this winter and early spring. Since I'm from Kansas I'll look at Mill Creek's sale next spring, Jensen Bros privately, and I'll keep my eye out for other sales. Any input as to where to look for quality females is appreciated.

I want to start with a base of 10-12 real nice hereford females to run in one of my smaller pastures that I used to regard as "useless". I went out and bought this first year simply and admitidly because I'm impatient to get started. I plan on going the ET route after this to build a quality herd using my commerical cows that I alread have and that are paid for.

I need help in selecting more females and bulls to use on them.

I need suggestions as to what line I should look for the other 8 or 9 females THIS year + keep in mind using the 2 females that I mentioned I have interests in as donors. So if lets say I base my females on proven pedigrees using Online, Revolution, Redeem, 3008 M326I, Harland, my SHF Progress and Revolution sister, I next want to pick a couple bulls to put on these female lines to hopefully lead to successful breedings. What about Schu-Lar On Target 22S, THR Thor 4029, and Golden Oak Outcross? Too different? Will I end up with too much variation? I'd like to know more about these bulls and any others you would recommend.

I know this is alot of info. So many options and being a newby, I could use some thoughts from all you seasoned guys. IF you were me, what would you do? I'm pretty determined and willing. Any help is appreciated.

 

[CMAHerefords]

From what I've seen so far this fall GO Advance S109 seems to be really clicking with Online influenced cattle.

I think there are better options out there besides the bulls you've listed.

 

[Herefords.US]

What are your long term goals? An operation similar to Star Lake - where the progeny is mostly sold off and selection is based primarily on success in the showring? Or an operation more similar to Sandhills? Or something in between?

George

 

[black and red]

What are your long term goals? An operation similar to Star Lake - where the progeny is mostly sold off and selection is based primarily on success in the showring? Or an operation more similar to Sandhills? Or something in between?

George

I don't want to be like Star Lake. Leaning more towards Sandhills or a Jensen as a model........but I'd like to show OR have somebody show my cattle a little down the road, but I realize that selling to commercial guys are whats going to keep you in business. I realize its a long road, uphill, but I got time on my side (even though i'm impatient at first ).

I picked the 3 bulls based on looks and EPD's. I really like Outcrosses and THor's daughters. I really like the look of Schu-lar On target and his EPD's - although some ACC is only in the 35-70% range. I'm open to all sorts of idea.

 

[Warrior2154]

I went to a sale two months ago for Hereford females. The bulls they were using were Revolution(geneX), Worldwide(GeneX), Materpiece(GeneX), and Rib Eye. The revolution daughters were great and the worldwide and masterpiece daughters were good as well. Both worldwide and masterpiece have the goggles on both eyes. On Target and R294 are other choices too.

 

[black and red]

I went to a sale two months ago for Hereford females. The bulls they were using were Revolution(geneX), Worldwide(GeneX), Materpiece(GeneX), and Rib Eye. The revolution daughters were great and the worldwide and masterpiece daughters were good as well. Both worldwide and masterpiece have the goggles on both eyes. On Target and R294 are other choices too.

I do like the goggle Eyes, especially those huge ones Masterpiece has but he's unproven.

 

[Warrior2154]

Yes he is unproven, his dad is Rib eye and he is proven so he could be a possibility. The sons out of him that I have seen have had the goggles.

 

[black and red]

Yes he is unproven, his dad is Rib eye and he is proven so he could be a possibility. The sons out of him that I have seen have had the goggles.

Thats good to hear. I even thought about Masterpiece when I was at a sale that had a beautiful dark red, goggled eyed heifer that I kind of wish I would've bought as a "project". Would've loved to see the results of that mating, even if it was just for looks.

 

[oakcreekfarms]

We will have some replacement females available this winter or next spring. They all go back to Sandhill Farm Breeding.

 

[shadyhollownj]

Sounds like you are off to a good start with your herd. I gotta say my 30 head I consider to be a second job so your definitely at one with 90. I like the outcross daughters I have seen. I also have been looking at the Redeem and SHF Wonder. For females I have always liked Wrangler 19d and World Class. I am pretty new to this as most of you know so it just my two cents :2cents: You kinda have the same plan I have only you are in different gear. I am interested in how your herd evolves since we both got some cattle and embryos from star lake. Did you ever get any embryos or just heifers from star lake or msu?

 

[black and red]

Sounds like you are off to a good start with your herd. I gotta say my 30 head I consider to be a second job so your definitely at one with 90. I like the outcross daughters I have seen. I also have been looking at the Redeem and SHF Wonder. For females I have always liked Wrangler 19d and World Class. I am pretty new to this as most of you know so it just my two cents :2cents: You kinda have the same plan I have only you are in different gear. I am interested in how your herd evolves since we both got some cattle and embryos from star lake. Did you ever get any embryos or just heifers from star lake or msu?

Hey Thanks! It definately is a second job. My ag business consists of seed, fertilizer/chemicals, custom app, equipment, crop insurance, crop consulting, and precision presciption writing. This keeps me so busy, but I'm not married so my sunday's are cowdays and it gives me an excuse to drink beer with my cows! I do feel like hauling hay is what I do for like 2 months however! I also finally invested in good working equipment to make my life easier and I have a really accomodating brother in law that helps out on the weekends! My herd is 65 now with it expanding to 90 here DEc/Jan with some added pasture. It is consisting of 10 registered angus and 52 black angus cross and 3 registered herefords. I have plans to be up to 10-12 bought registerd herefords this year, picking and choosing from some of the best programs in the central US and AI'ing them in the spring. Eventually I want it to be ALL herefords except for 20 black recipient cows. I didn't buy any embryos from SL or MSU. Since I own 50% interest in 2 donor females close by, I just pick a good bull and ET my black cows with as much as I can afford or as many eggs as I get. Hopefully 7 out of each and then I'll buy 10-20 more from some breeders.

I too really like REdeem and have been very interested in how sons and duaghters turn out of Wonder. He's a good looking bull! Definately keep in touch and let me know how your herd progresses too! It takes time but nothing's more rewarding than seeing the results of your hard work.

 

[Herefords.US]

Well, I have a LOT of advice - resulting mostly from mistakes that I've made over the last 10 years! :bang: And some things that I've actually done right! :banana:

If your desire is to be a breeder of cattle similar to what Sandhills is - get a type that you want fixed in your mind, don't vary very much from that type, and concentrate heavily on the cow side of the equation. Use proven sires of great females, don't become overly obsessed with EPDs, don't flush heifers - make sure that heifer actually has the ability to actually RAISE a calf every year, not just have a calf or a covey of embryos. And seek out the advice of Kevin Schultz, and others, who have an operation similar to what you want!

Be prepared for surprises and disappointments! And a degree of satisfaction when something works out as you envisioned it would. And temper the impatience - because it'll end up costing you in the long run because you're more prone to take shortcuts or make compromises that won't net the results that you seek.

George

 

[black and red]

I think you're correct George. Patience and watching what the succesful guys do will pay off in the long run.

I also agree on picking a "type". I guess in my mind a moderate framed, moderate bw, good growth, good pigmented, and easy doing hereford is what I'm after. I've been paying close attention to what Sandhills and Jensen have been doing. There's still a part in me that does chase the EPD's and maybe even the "bull of the month" club. I guess a guy could "play" around with those but not lose sight of the goal at hand that the majority of your herd is based on.

What sire of females do you look George if you could start over and start picking?

 

[Herefords.US]

I think you're correct George. Patience and watching what the succesful guys do will pay off in the long run.

I also agree on picking a "type". I guess in my mind a moderate framed, moderate bw, good growth, good pigmented, and easy doing hereford is what I'm after. I've been paying close attention to what Sandhills and Jensen have been doing. There's still a part in me that does chase the EPD's and maybe even the "bull of the month" club. I guess a guy could "play" around with those but not lose sight of the goal at hand that the majority of your herd is based on.

What sire of females do you look George if you could start over and start picking?

For me, on the polled side, the bull that I wish I had tried is P606.

Now, considering that, the bull that I keep coming back to - and think that I need to research further and use is:

GRANDVIEW 7OAKS SONORA 145R

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5C252558252F24&9=525052

 

[black and red]

You're right on target George with P606. They sure are some lookers. The only bad thing is doesn't P606 have a heavy BW?

I'm going up to Jensens to hopefully look at some P606 females, along with hopefully some Redeem, Outcross and 3008 M326 daughters.

 

[Herefords.US]

You're right on target George with P606. They sure are some lookers. The only bad thing is doesn't P606 have a heavy BW?

I'm going up to Jensens to hopefully look at some P606 females, along with hopefully some Redeem, Outcross and 3008 M326 daughters.

The CED and BW EPD of P606 is all that is keeping me from using him now - as I already have a good bit of BW with the Remitall and Pure Gold background in my cattle.

But the Sonora bull is out of a full sister to P606 - with Online as his sire - and right now I have almost none of either bull's genetics in my cowherd. The Sonora bull looks like he might be a good choice to introduce those genetics, without adding BW that either P606 or Online can typically add.

I'm not a fan of super low BWs anyway. I think too much is given up if low BW/ calving ease becomes the primary focus of a breeding program and you can end up breeding the calving ease out of your cowherd to the point where they couldn't have a cottontail rabbit on their own. I have had very few calving problems from sires whose BW EPDs might scare some folks away from using them - especially on heifers. That's contrary to what a lot of folks are preaching right now, I know. :hide:

George

 

[black and red]

I agree. Do 5's on BW worry you?

 

[shadyhollownj]

After going to star lake I thought that 5s was the norm ;-)

 

[Herefords.US]

I agree. Do 5's on BW worry you?

A proven +5 BW doesn't worry me, on cows or as long as the heifers are well grown out.

The two foundation sires of my herd are +5.7 and +5.3 BW - granted those numbers are with very little proof behind them other than my own personal experience. I would suspect had they been used along with other proven bulls in the same herd, those numbers would have dropped a little.

Regarding Star Lake, in some conversations that I had with Montie Soules right before the sale, I asked him why they stopped using a particular bull. He said that he had kept a lot of BW in those cattle "on purpose", but when a bull got to a +6 BW or higher he generally stopped using him. So, I guess we know what Shock and Awe's fate was, had they stayed in business. And I remember someone saying the same thing about Thunder years ago - that he was running in a trap at Star Lake, but hadn't seen any of their cows for a couple of years.

George

 

[black and red]

I agree with ya George. So are your bulls throwing 90-100lb calves most generally? If so, I'm not too worried. I had that last year with some of the calves. ITs the 100+#'s